Shardplate Enchancements

[Eki]

31 minutes ago, Blackhoof said:

yeah, and Syl couldn't have bonded anyone else because any Spren bonded to a Radiant was killed. Syl is younger than that.

Only the ones that were bound to Radiants at the time of the Recreance. I don't think there's any evidence that Syl was 'born' after the Recreance.

[Yata he/him]

49 minutes ago, Blackhoof said:

yeah, and Syl couldn't have bonded anyone else because any Spren bonded to a Radiant was killed. Syl is younger than that.

Syl may was a Spren of some Windrunner died without breaking the Oaths.

In this case, the Human dies, the bond ends without breaking the Spren's Mind and the Spren returns to the Cognitive Realm or remains on the Physical but without self awaress (because the Spren lose the Bond's benefits)

Edited June 16, 2016 by Yata

[CaptainRyan he/him]

I found two more quotes that relate to the topic and to some of the discussion.

The first quote comes from Kaladin's flashback to the day he battled a Shardbearer as a member of Amaram's army.

page 673 of 1008 of the kindle version of the Way of Kings (emphasis mine):

Quote

Kaladin screamed instead. The Shardbearer saw him, and spun - impossibly quick - swinging.

Another quote that helps highlight the fact that Shardplate is not just a strength enhancer but that it affects the speed of the user to levels above that of a normal person. 

 

The second quote comes from Szeth's Interlude where he attacks the King of Jah Keved during a feast:

page 719 of 1008 of the kindle version of the Way of Kings (emphasis mine):

Quote

The Shardbearers didn't work together. They were accustomed to dominating a battlefield or dueling with a single enemy. Their powerful weapons made them sloppy.

This quote provides another example of why Shardbearers are oftentimes not the best or most well trained of fighters. They are so powerful they do not have to be the best; their weapons make them so strong they become complacent.

As I continue my reread of the Way of Kings I will continue to look for more quotes.

Edit: page 822 of 1008 of the Kindle version of the Way of Kings:

Quote

Adolin jumped back out of the way, Shardplate-enhanced legs giving him a nimbleness that defied the fact that he was wearing over a hundred stoneweights of thick armor.

 

Edited June 18, 2016 by CaptainRyan

[asterion137 he/him]

On 6/17/2016 at 10:28 AM, CaptainRyan said:

I found two more quotes that relate to the topic and to some of the discussion.

The first quote comes from Kaladin's flashback to the day he battled a Shardbearer as a member of Amaram's army.

page 673 of 1008 of the kindle version of the Way of Kings (emphasis mine):

Another quote that helps highlight the fact that Shardplate is not just a strength enhancer but that it affects the speed of the user to levels above that of a normal person. 

I would argue that this quote only refers to the shardbearer's swing. If he's supernaturally strong of course his arm if going to swing faster

The second quote comes from Szeth's Interlude where he attacks the King of Jah Keved during a feast:

page 719 of 1008 of the kindle version of the Way of Kings (emphasis mine):

This quote provides another example of why Shardbearers are oftentimes not the best or most well trained of fighters. They are so powerful they do not have to be the best; their weapons make them so strong they become complacent.

As I continue my reread of the Way of Kings I will continue to look for more quotes.

Edit: page 822 of 1008 of the Kindle version of the Way of Kings:

Well "nimble" could mean that he just jumped back quickly, which could be accomplished by strength enhancements alone.

 

[CaptainRyan he/him]

Original quote:

On 6/17/2016 at 10:28 AM, CaptainRyan said:

The Shardbearer saw him, and spun - impossibly quick - swinging.

8 hours ago, asterion137 said:

I would argue that this quote only refers to the shardbearer's swing. If he's supernaturally strong of course his arm if going to swing faster

 

@asterion137, grammatically the phrase "impossibly quick" most definitely refers to the word "spun" in this sentence. Kaladin is remarking on how the Shardbearer is spinning impossibly quickly. Note that he does not make any reference to "for a man in such heavy armor" or anything of the like. 

Also, as Shardplate enhances the entire body of the wearer, it is not just the arms of a Shardplate wearer that have bonus strength. The person, from head to toe, is stronger. This also means the person, from head to toe, is faster. In the case of a human moving, speed is could possibly be defined as "strength in action". The stronger your legs, the faster they can propel you. The stronger your arms, the faster they can swing. The stronger your torso muscles, the faster you can bend in half. Etc. 

With that definition of speed in mind, one of the original quotes I posted, by Adolin, about Plate enhancing the speed, strength and dexterity of the wearer becomes even more telling -  Sanderson, through Adolin, is underscoring the various ways in which Shardplate enhances the user. He could have just said "strength" if all the Plate did was enhance strength (which also includes a speed boost) but he was more specific because Shardplate is more than just strength.'

Definition of nimble: "quick and light in movement or action; agile."

8 hours ago, asterion137 said:

On 6/17/2016 at 10:28 AM, CaptainRyan said:

Well "nimble" could mean that he just jumped back quickly, which could be accomplished by strength enhancements alone.

 

I sincerely doubt Sanderson would use the word "nimble", which is synonymous with "agile", if he meant "stronger". Your disagreement seems to be centered around redefining every non-strength word Sanderson uses into meaning "strength". Perhaps if Sanderson consistently used "strength" and only once or twice used a non-strength word I would be persuaded but it quite obvious from all of the references that Sanderson is making clear distinctions between "strength" and "speed".

[Darkness Ascendant he/him]

I have a few questions, raised thanks to you @CaptainRyan  I thank your for this

First up. Since the Shardplate is in fact Powered by the gems, could the gem's work be in fact of an ancient fabrial? As in, the Plate and Blade were made unique, for the Radiants, but fabrials were created to enhance them even further, and allow normal humans to use the Plates and Blades. From what I remember, The Radiants didn't need the gems to use the Plate and Blade, so, since being Surgebinders, they already had the power to use the Plate and Blade through their bonds. But an ordinary human wouldn't be able to use them, cue the fabrials, made so humans could use the Plate and Blade. So do the gems in fact enhance the user so they can in fact USE the Plate and Blade, not just enhancing them on top of the power the Plate and Blade lends them?

And lastly, would these enhancements work proportionally to the user's strength. So if one person was faster than another unenhanced, the same person would be faster with enhancements as well? or do they go to a set amount of power?

[Blackhoof]

Hmm yeah, that is a good observation. Much like how Blade's had the gemstone added onto them to allow bonding when it wasn't necessary in Radiant hands. Radiants can draw in their own stormlight to fuel the Plate, what need would they have for gemstones?

[CaptainRyan he/him]

8 hours ago, Darkness Ascendant said:

I have a few questions, raised thanks to you @CaptainRyan  I thank your for this

First up. Since the Shardplate is in fact Powered by the gems, could the gem's work be in fact of an ancient fabrial? As in, the Plate and Blade were made unique, for the Radiants, but fabrials were created to enhance them even further, and allow normal humans to use the Plates and Blades. From what I remember, The Radiants didn't need the gems to use the Plate and Blade, so, since being Surgebinders, they already had the power to use the Plate and Blade through their bonds. But an ordinary human wouldn't be able to use them, cue the fabrials, made so humans could use the Plate and Blade. So do the gems in fact enhance the user so they can in fact USE the Plate and Blade, not just enhancing them on top of the power the Plate and Blade lends them?

 

1 hour ago, Blackhoof said:

Hmm yeah, that is a good observation. Much like how Blade's had the gemstone added onto them to allow bonding when it wasn't necessary in Radiant hands. Radiants can draw in their own stormlight to fuel the Plate, what need would they have for gemstones?

There is a lot we don't know about Shardplate. For one thing, we have mainly seen Shardplate only in its "modern", Radiant-less configuration. Based on Dalinar's visions we can guess that the way Shardplate worked for Radiants is very different than how it works for Adolin (or other non-Radiant folks in "modern" Roshar).

So, is Shardplate some kind of spren bond like the blade? Is it an incredibly advanced fabrial? Is it forged by one (or many) of the Orders of Radiants? We do not know yet.

One theory that I, personally, like is that Shardplate allows Radiants to not "leak" Stormlight. We see Szeth, Kaladin and Shallan glow when they are holding Stormlight and that the Stormlight slowly leaks out of them. Perhaps, the Shardplate prevents this leaking. Also, if the Plate has gems inside of it then perhaps it even acts as a kind of Stormlight battery for the Radiants? Or, even, a Stormlight generator! In several of the visions (battle with the Midnight Essences, battle with the Thunderclast) we see Radiants appear, and fight, not during a highstorm. They must be drawing their Stormlight from somewhere eh? Perhaps their plate carries infused gems? Or perhaps their Plate can even generate Stormlight for them?
 

8 hours ago, Darkness Ascendant said:

And lastly, would these enhancements work proportionally to the user's strength. So if one person was faster than another unenhanced, the same person would be faster with enhancements as well? or do they go to a set amount of power?

This is another good question. Short answer, I don't know haha. Best guess? I think it would enhance the wearer of the Plate. Someone who is already faster/stronger would be still be faster/stronger than a weaker person who wore the same Plate.

But! Do suits of Shardplate provide the same level of bonus or are there differences between the suits?

[Darkness Ascendant he/him]

3 hours ago, CaptainRyan said:

 

There is a lot we don't know about Shardplate. For one thing, we have mainly seen Shardplate only in its "modern", Radiant-less configuration. Based on Dalinar's visions we can guess that the way Shardplate worked for Radiants is very different than how it works for Adolin (or other non-Radiant folks in "modern" Roshar).

So, is Shardplate some kind of spren bond like the blade? Is it an incredibly advanced fabrial? Is it forged by one (or many) of the Orders of Radiants? We do not know yet.

One theory that I, personally, like is that Shardplate allows Radiants to not "leak" Stormlight. We see Szeth, Kaladin and Shallan glow when they are holding Stormlight and that the Stormlight slowly leaks out of them. Perhaps, the Shardplate prevents this leaking. Also, if the Plate has gems inside of it then perhaps it even acts as a kind of Stormlight battery for the Radiants? Or, even, a Stormlight generator! In several of the visions (battle with the Midnight Essences, battle with the Thunderclast) we see Radiants appear, and fight, not during a highstorm. They must be drawing their Stormlight from somewhere eh? Perhaps their plate carries infused gems? Or perhaps their Plate can even generate Stormlight for them?
 

This is another good question. Short answer, I don't know haha. Best guess? I think it would enhance the wearer of the Plate. Someone who is already faster/stronger would be still be faster/stronger than a weaker person who wore the same Plate.

But! Do suits of Shardplate provide the same level of bonus or are there differences between the suits?

Perhaps specific Blades and Plates were meant to be together, in sets? it would make sense seeing that individually they are powerful, but together they are even more so. Since when a spren "dies" in its bond, they fuse with the Shardblade, what is there to say that the Radiants weren't  bonded to TWO spren, one for blade and one for plate?

I like that theory too

Your last question might come into play in sets. I would say that Shardplates give the same level of bonus as long as the stormlight level is the same

[CaptainRyan he/him]

9 minutes ago, Darkness Ascendant said:

what is there to say that the Radiants weren't  bonded to TWO spren, one for blade and one for plate?

One big hole for this theory is that Shardplate does not cause the screaming proto-Radiants here like when they touch Shardblades. Renarin is able to wear Shardplate with no issue but when he touches a blade - screaming. The same seems to be true for other proto-Radiants as well; Kaladin holding the Shardhelm during the duel etc.

Another big hole is that Shardblades cannot break one another but Shardblades can break Shardplate. If Plate was a spren just like a blade then we would expect it to not break, right?

[Darkness Ascendant he/him]

13 minutes ago, CaptainRyan said:

One big hole for this theory is that Shardplate does not cause the screaming proto-Radiants here like when they touch Shardblades. Renarin is able to wear Shardplate with no issue but when he touches a blade - screaming. The same seems to be true for other proto-Radiants as well; Kaladin holding the Shardhelm during the duel etc.

Another big hole is that Shardblades cannot break one another but Shardblades can break Shardplate. If Plate was a spren just like a blade then we would expect it to not break, right?

Oh yeah...I never thought about that lol