Vin vs Iron Man

[Pathfinder]

FYI, storing that much heat would make the Mistborn die of hypothermia. Brass Feruchemy can't make you invisible in infrared, you'd need to store so much you'd be of the air temperature. Even assuming it's about 30°C outside, storing 6,6°C would be fatal. Even with pewter.

So two things to this. First we see Ham walking around in just a vest, shirtless while it is snowing, yet he shows no ill effects. Not only that, but he has done so on numerous occasions for long lengths of time. So no, a pewter burner would not suffer for hypothermia. Secondly, that wouldn't be an issue to begin with because as stated per Sanderson, bronze ferrings are insulated against the extreme use of their own power. So although they can be burned by fire, they can raise their body heat far above what would normally kill a human being. Same stands in reverse. So if anything you proved that the mistborn wouldn't be shivering while storing and also wouldn't even need to burn pewter to be ok during it. 

 

After reading through this thread (and it was awesome!) I thought I would just weigh in real quick with my opinion because I know all of you are simply dying to read what I have to write!

1: If Tony and Vin go into a fight with no other knowledge except that they have to fight to the death then all my money is on Vin. She can be a stone-cold killer when she needs to be. I feel like Tony would hesitate and, therefore, die in this scenario.

 

2: If both Vin and Tony have full knowledge of each other's capabilities and are given ample preparation time then all of my money is now on Tony. Vin is scrappy and has killer instincts (pun intended) but Tony simply outclasses her in the intelligence category and he has (nearly) unlimited resources. Tony's schtick is counter-measures and with a solid understanding of Allomancy he would be able to (relatively) quickly design and implement a suit of armor that would be a Mistbuster.

Finally, if the mists come into the equation then it simply does not matter what Tony does - he is no match for a god.

1. I agree

2. without Vin having access to medallions like in my example, then I agree, for reasons I will bring up regarding the alluminum armor. 

 

Depending on how much dependency Tony's weapons have on auto-targeting then lowering your temp enough to not register as human might be sufficient?

 

edit: Whoops, double post. Sorry!

The way I see it, is Tony has two ways of targeting/finding Vin. Heat signature and locking on. Heat signature can be countered with the bronze storing as I explained above. Lock on can be thrown off with a bendalloy bubble. This can still be countered however as I will mention in a later response. 

 

 

HAHA. I snickered at that Iron man -Iron maiden pun.

Yeah, I do agree with you on the use of medallions now, you've really thought this out really well, and the battle you're describing was the kind of battle I hoped for when I imagined them duelling and posting this.

Thank you for both compliments 

 

I'm sorry I didn't clarify the participants clearly, as many people have been debating over this.

When I say Stark, I imagine MCU Stark whose powers remain pretty much consistent over the movies, with upgrades, of course, but nothing unreasonable. That means Extremis and the Bleeding Edge armor are kinda discounted.

 

However, I was thinking of discussing, exactly what modifications would Stark need to counter a Mistborn in round 2 and 3? Pathfinder has given some excellent suggestions on Aluminium armor. What do you think Stark would need to tailor his suit to counter both allomancy and hemalurgy? Essentially I'm thinking of creating an entirely new suit of armor to counter the Mistborn, and hoping to discuss what the new armor should include. 

 

When I say Vin, I mean her as a normal mistborn pre-ascension, only with access to all the Era 2 metals and medallions in later battles. Her limits are pretty much fixed here, as I assume everyone reading this has a fair knowledge of the different metals and feruchemical medallions. So no ascended Vin here.

 

Anything else I missed, please don't hesitate to ask. Or perhaps we could set the conditions together? 

So assuming it was possible to make an aluminum composite armor that would hold up to blows (using a composition that Landis brought up below, thanks btw!), I feel that would counter her steel pushes and iron pulls directly on him. She could still shoot pieces of metal at him with regular pushes and pulls and duralumin pushes and pulls, but that would then depend on how durable that aluminum composite is. Having aluminum armor and weapons would negate atium I believe. So aluminum darts would not be affected by passing through a bendalloy bubble, however the targeting system trying to aim at her would. So basically from outside the bubble, it is a blur and would be a guess on his part where to shoot, while from within the bubble she would see the trajectory of the darts to move out of their way. Which is why we get to an aluminum shrapnel grenade. That can be shot with air pressure too, just it would reduce the range. But basically Vin puts up bendalloy bubble, toss in aluminum shrapnel grenade and it doesn't matter where she is in the bubble, she still gets hit. Magnets to pull on her metals might be a problem as aluminum itself is not magnetic. Putting it in a strong enough magnetic field will make it slightly, but from what I know, it would be very difficult to either make an electromagnet without the overheating issue, or a natural magnetic field with aluminum. Aluminum mesh nets could potentially catch her as they would cover a large field and she couldn't push it off. Hmmm trying to think what else. OH! Toss out every so often little speakers with strobe lights. That way Vin can no longer use Tin to locate Tony as the loud noises and bright lights would blind and deafen her, while Tony could have noise canceling in his helmet and hear fine. The aluminum suit blocks emotional allomancy. So yeah I think that covers everything. Now you see why I feel letting Tony build a mistborn killing specific armor would be unfair if Vin wasn't allowed to do anything to counter it? Without the medallions, and Tony with this armor, even with the limitations to weapons and flight, he would still neuter her. She would have to have something to compensate to make it a fair fight. Since Tony in metal armor makes the fight unfair in Vin's favor, so you give Tony aluminum armor to try and balance it, then Vin needs something so the fight isn't then unfair in Tony's favor. But don't get me wrong, I know your post was just in an effort to only figure out what Tony could do to counter Vin, and what I wrote above is at least how I would go about it assuming I had access to such resources lol. 

 

All that's required for a suit of armor to counter hemalurgy is to have it be bulletproof - and thankfully, the standard titanium-gold alloy appears to do that pretty well.  The problem comes in when it comes to countering allomancy, which requires aluminum.  100% aluminum, which would fulfill the letter of the requirement, would not stand up to the heat and force given off by Tony's own weapons - which means alloys.  Copper, which would put the suit into duralumin territory and would thus invalidate the hazekilling usage, happens to be one of the best for aviation purposes.  (There is a process by which an aluminum surface layer could be applied to any aluminum alloy, but I suspect the massive amount of articulation necessary for the suit to work as shown in the movies would make it too expensive or impractical - although Stark does have the budget for it) Other candidates include "Birmabright", an aluminum-magnesium alloy used in the Land Rover chassis (99.4% to 93% aluminum, depending on formula) and Silumin (3-50% silicon to a remainder of aluminum, used in 3 phase motors and camera mounts).  

 

The main problem, however, is how this interacts with Stark's tendency to go high.  

Thanks for the info for possible alloys for the armor! Shame Sanderson never hinted or included information on how the bullets or guns were alloyed to know how much aluminum you need to still be effective against allomancy. 

[Oversleep]

So two things to this. First we see Ham walking around in just a vest, shirtless while it is snowing, yet he shows no ill effects. Not only that, but he has done so on numerous occasions for long lengths of time. So no, a pewter burner would not suffer for hypothermia. Secondly, that wouldn't be an issue to begin with because as stated per Sanderson, bronze ferrings are insulated against the extreme use of their own power. So although they can be burned by fire, they can raise their body heat far above what would normally kill a human being. Same stands in reverse. So if anything you proved that the mistborn wouldn't be shivering while storing and also wouldn't even need to burn pewter to be ok during it.

Have to disagree here. See, the hard limit on Pewter Feruchemy is the state when the heart is too weak to pump blood/ diagraphm and rib muscles are too weak to inhale air (I don't know which would be first). Brandon stated that this limit is about 70% (for a long time I thought this is the limit which applies to all Feruchemy abilities). I don't see why Bronze would be an exception without any effects. After all, when you store cadmium, you wouldn't say there is no effect of oxygen deficiency, would you? We know Gasper has to hyperventilate to make up for it, so Firesouls would probably wrap in blankets and hug the heater when they store their 1°C.

Now, there is a difference between being thin clothed when it's cold outside and actually having the temperature of your body drop. I can go outside when it's -20°C only in a single T-shirt and suffer no consequences (actually have done that for 10 to 20 minutes. I'm crazy). I can see how burning pewter can help offset that, as the body is strenghtened continuously, but there is only so much that pewter can do.

 

But having the temperature of your body lowered is an entire different matter. For a period of time body can withstand a cold environment, but after that it cannot any longer and it's ability to produce heat is outmatched by heat loss. Heat balance is negative and that's what hipothermia is.

But at the same time, negative heat balance is what storing bronze is. Normally body loses heat from outside parts of it, skin, the insides stay warm longer. Also there are defence mechanisms when the circulation of warm blood to the limbs is limited to keep the head and torso warm longer.

But Feruchemy lowers the temperature of all the body equally and that's why it would be even more dangerous than a normal hypothermia.

 

Back on the topic: Does Tony get the House Party Protocol?

[Landis963 he/him]

Back on the topic: Does Tony get the House Party Protocol?

 

Round 1?  No.  As a Round 2 or 3 hail-mary ploy?  Perhaps.  Note that a lot of the armors die immediately to a simultaneous Duralumin Steelpush and Ironpull, so they'd be good for (at best) distracting a Mistborn and depleting their reserves until Tony can get his ducks in a row.  

[Doc12]

Round 1?  No.  As a Round 2 or 3 hail-mary ploy?  Perhaps.  Note that a lot of the armors die immediately to a simultaneous Duralumin Steelpush and Ironpull, so they'd be good for (at best) distracting a Mistborn and depleting their reserves until Tony can get his ducks in a row.  

 Excellent point. Perhaps the Iron Legion protocol would be more suited, though, as they're explicitly just used as mooks in Age of Ultron. Generic iron soldiers intended to slow the enemy and distract them enough for Stark to swoop in. At best they'll hopelessly confuse Vin as there'll be blue lines swirling everywhere- the equivalent of flares for Mistborn - and she'd have to waste time and metal taking them down, long enough for Stark to creep up in his aluminium armor and take her down.

Edited June 11, 2016 by Doctor12

[Magestar he/him]

Tony's schtick is counter-measures and with a solid understanding of Allomancy he would be able to (relatively) quickly design and implement a suit of armor that would be a Mistbuster.

A bit late, but Mistbuster.  So awesome.

[Pathfinder]

Have to disagree here. See, the hard limit on Pewter Feruchemy is the state when the heart is too weak to pump blood/ diagraphm and rib muscles are too weak to inhale air (I don't know which would be first). Brandon stated that this limit is about 70% (for a long time I thought this is the limit which applies to all Feruchemy abilities). I don't see why Bronze would be an exception without any effects. After all, when you store cadmium, you wouldn't say there is no effect of oxygen deficiency, would you? We know Gasper has to hyperventilate to make up for it, so Firesouls would probably wrap in blankets and hug the heater when they store their 1°C.

Now, there is a difference between being thin clothed when it's cold outside and actually having the temperature of your body drop. I can go outside when it's -20°C only in a single T-shirt and suffer no consequences (actually have done that for 10 to 20 minutes. I'm crazy). I can see how burning pewter can help offset that, as the body is strenghtened continuously, but there is only so much that pewter can do.

 

But having the temperature of your body lowered is an entire different matter. For a period of time body can withstand a cold environment, but after that it cannot any longer and it's ability to produce heat is outmatched by heat loss. Heat balance is negative and that's what hipothermia is.

But at the same time, negative heat balance is what storing bronze is. Normally body loses heat from outside parts of it, skin, the insides stay warm longer. Also there are defence mechanisms when the circulation of warm blood to the limbs is limited to keep the head and torso warm longer.

But Feruchemy lowers the temperature of all the body equally and that's why it would be even more dangerous than a normal hypothermia.

 

Back on the topic: Does Tony get the House Party Protocol?

I personally disagree regarding pewter, but regardless as I said by storing like a ferring, Vin would have the boon where she would not be subject to that issue. If you can raise your body heat enough to burn someone, and not cook yourself by tapping heat, then you can certainly "chill out" enough to not come up as a heat signature and not shut down. So it is most definitely possible and viable. 

 

 Excellent point. Perhaps the Iron Legion protocol would be more suited, though, as they're explicitly just used as mooks in Age of Ultron. Generic iron soldiers intended to slow the enemy and distract them enough for Stark to swoop in. At best they'll hopelessly confuse Vin as there'll be blue lines swirling everywhere- the equivalent of flares for Mistborn - and she'd have to waste time and metal taking them down, long enough for Stark to creep up in his aluminium armor and take her down.

Would be funny though if she used them as basically giant projectiles to shoot at Tony. Basically watch him running and saying "this was not part of the plan!!!!" lolol

[natc]

Tapping feruchemy generally has the required secondary powers invoked to make sure the powers don't simply kill you with their physical implications, but there's no evidence that storing does the same. To begin with in general, the hard limit on storing for many attributes is acknowledged as the point where death occurs. Storing heat will kill you past a point just as surely as storing health, age/youth, or nutrition should.

[Pathfinder]

14 hours ago, natc said:

Tapping feruchemy generally has the required secondary powers invoked to make sure the powers don't simply kill you with their physical implications, but there's no evidence that storing does the same. To begin with in general, the hard limit on storing for many attributes is acknowledged as the point where death occurs. Storing heat will kill you past a point just as surely as storing health, age/youth, or nutrition should.

Any change in core body temperature should kill you. So basically by what you are saying that the boon does not apply to storing like it does tapping, then it is impossible to store heat at all as you will die. All the feruchemical arts have thresh-holds yes, but that does not mean the boon does not apply. There is a hard limit to how much heat you can tap, just like there is probably a hard limit on how much you can store. But that still does not prevent Vin from storing heat to lower her appearance on heat signature. I think it is counter intuitive to build in a boon to lets you tap an ability so you do not die, but exclude it from storing when that can be just as lethal. I guess this has reached a point where we just agree to disagree. 

[IndigoAjah he/him]

Vin, definitely. Tony is awesome and would stand a chance, but Vin's powers have the advantage and if it gets to close combat, Stark is screwed

 

Oh, and if we are giving Vin medallions, or Atium, or Bendalloy? More one-sided. Unless Tony gets to do some serious recon and fully prepare

Edited June 14, 2016 by IndigoAjah

[Rich2244]

I think someone else has said something similar but, if they both just met and fought, with both having no foreknowledge of the other, I feel like Vin would win, more versatile powers and being able to throw Ironman around like a puppet in his standard suit/ literally tear him apart. 

If they know each other's capabilities but don't have time to prepare I'd still back Vin, for mostly the same reasons, not really much Ironman can do at that point.

If they have time to prepare as much as they want I feel like Ironman would design some sort of suit that would be resistant to allomancy and then win up close, short range energy blasts/ beat Vin down.

If Vin has Atium or the Mists she wins.

[Master Elodin]

So, with Vin pre-Ascension and a bunch of spikes in Iron Man.. remember a certain Shard who wanted to keep Vin alive? The one that created Hemalurgy?

[asterion137 he/him]

If they have no knowledge of each other and meet randomly, then I say Iron Man will probably either go hand to hand or stay within eyesight of her, which are both terrible ideas. If they have knowledge of each others' powers and abilities, Iron man can just fly off at supersonic speed and drop a missile on her from a mile out and she won't be able to do anything about it.

[Magestar he/him]

If they have knowledge of each others abilities, then Vin can just Pull on his armor, not allowing him to escape.  Even without knowledge, Vin would still probably A; dodge the missile with pewter, B;  Steelpush it away, or C; both.  It just seems unlikely that a missile could stop her.

[asterion137 he/him]

On 6/20/2016 at 7:31 AM, Magestar said:

If they have knowledge of each others abilities, then Vin can just Pull on his armor, not allowing him to escape.  Even without knowledge, Vin would still probably A; dodge the missile with pewter, B;  Steelpush it away, or C; both.  It just seems unlikely that a missile could stop her.

a proper missile will be coming down at hundreds if not thousands of mph and if vin wouldn't have the reflexes to react to it. Besides if iron man has prep he will bring in some giant missile and she won't be able to push it without crushing herself. She wouldn't be able to hold him down with a pull; she would just start flying after him in a straight line. Once Iron man got high enough she would die and if he gets going at top speed she will tear herself apart.

[Pathfinder]

5 minutes ago, asterion137 said:

a proper missile will be coming down at hundreds if not thousands of mph and if vin wouldn't have the reflexes to react to it. Besides if iron man has prep he will bring in some giant missile and she won't be able to push it without crushing herself. She wouldn't be able to hold him down with a pull; she would just start flying after him in a straight line. Once Iron man got high enough she would die and if he gets going at top speed she will tear herself apart.

Yeah, all of these points have already been brought up and responded to earlier in the thread. First, you state the missile would be flying at thousands of miles an hour (which is a speed clocked for a missile that is larger than Iron Man himself. So not sure where you think he is going to hide that pocket rocket in his suit), but then you state he will be firing it from high in the atmosphere. If he is firing it from so high up, then she has plenty of time to see it coming from far away to duralumin push on the stabilizers and fins to screw up its trajectory. She doesn't have to push on the entire missile, so she won't be crushed. As mentioned earlier she would not have to hold him down. If she pushed on his chest piece, while pulling on his helmet while burning duralumin, Tony gets beheaded. That then lead to the discussion of the aluminum suit, which is then gone into detail back and forth. 

[asterion137 he/him]

1 hour ago, Pathfinder said:

Yeah, all of these points have already been brought up and responded to earlier in the thread. First, you state the missile would be flying at thousands of miles an hour (which is a speed clocked for a missile that is larger than Iron Man himself. So not sure where you think he is going to hide that pocket rocket in his suit), but then you state he will be firing it from high in the atmosphere. If he is firing it from so high up, then she has plenty of time to see it coming from far away to duralumin push on the stabilizers and fins to screw up its trajectory. She doesn't have to push on the entire missile, so she won't be crushed. As mentioned earlier she would not have to hold him down. If she pushed on his chest piece, while pulling on his helmet while burning duralumin, Tony gets beheaded. That then lead to the discussion of the aluminum suit, which is then gone into detail back and forth. 

Your responses earlier in the thread all assumed Vin has time to react to a missile fired from a mile above her head. That is nothing to a missile, even stark's unibeam has the range to kill her from a mile out.

Oh, I was assuming that Iron man gets access to his satellites and stuff. And lol unless vin suddenly has millisecond reactions she will be dead before she can steelpush anything. You have to separate the item in your mind to push separate parts of an item. Vin will barely have any time with the missile in eyeshot. She probably will have a tenth of a second at best to pull off what took wax five seconds or so of concentration to do (and he's a steel savant, unlike vin)

[Halinn]

On 20/6/2016 at 4:31 PM, Magestar said:

If they have knowledge of each others abilities, then Vin can just Pull on his armor, not allowing him to escape.  

Assuming she has a big enough anchor. The thrusters can pull some heavy lifting, possibly even more than her maximum power 

[Magestar he/him]

11 hours ago, Halinn said:

Assuming she has a big enough anchor. The thrusters can pull some heavy lifting, possibly even more than her maximum power 

I more meant that she could keep with him by pulling on his armor.  Pulling on his armor to sort of fly behind him?  I am not sure I am explaining this well.

[Pathfinder]

15 hours ago, asterion137 said:

Your responses earlier in the thread all assumed Vin has time to react to a missile fired from a mile above her head. That is nothing to a missile, even stark's unibeam has the range to kill her from a mile out.

Oh, I was assuming that Iron man gets access to his satellites and stuff. And lol unless vin suddenly has millisecond reactions she will be dead before she can steelpush anything. You have to separate the item in your mind to push separate parts of an item. Vin will barely have any time with the missile in eyeshot. She probably will have a tenth of a second at best to pull off what took wax five seconds or so of concentration to do (and he's a steel savant, unlike vin)

First, any object, regardless its thrust, still need to build momentum. The missile does not go from launch pad to 15,000 miles. It needs distance to build up to that speed. Second, you still did not answer where is he hiding this missile that is larger than his entire suit to launch from? That is the type of missile that goes the speeds you offer. 

 

Regarding the unibeam, please see the quotes below from this reference: http://ironman.wikia.com/wiki/Unibeam_(film)

"The Unibeam is a secondary repulsion blast that comes out of Iron Man's RT. It has to be used wisely, as if it is used too much, it can rapidly drain the suit's power. It has also been shown that it can be used as a search light. First used by theMark II armor, the Unibeam has to be charged, therefore it has been used rarely."

"The suit's entire power can be diverted into the Unibeam to perform the blast which can defeat even the most powerful beings like Thor or Hulk . Like in Iron Man the video game and 2 the other systems nearly go down. It cannot be used while in flight mode, only in hover or ground mode."

 

So the unibeam cannot be used while flying (moving target), must be charged up, and uses most if not all of his power. Beams are not heatseaking. Every instance we have seen the unibeam used is either at point blank range or a stationary target. So given all of these limitations, how is Stark supposed to hit Vin? He has to remain still in order to target her, and close range, during which she can throw pushes and pulls at his actual suit to throw off his aim. This is also not counting the amount of time he needs to charge up while she is moving all around. And finally, (keeping in mind I haven't even needed to mention atium yet), she can burn bendalloy right when it fires (which she will expect as he has to charge it), showing her the exact trajectory so she may step calmly out of the way. Then Tony is mostly drained and unless he wants a dead suit of armor, he won't be using it again. 

Where does satellites come in? The OP gave him his armor. The only "satellite" that was ever mentioned was Veronica aka the Hulk Buster. Which again all that was already discussed. I could post my responses to that again if you like. Or if you would like to allow Tony planetary satellite busters (like the one he used to fight the pheonix force), then Vin gets to burn the mists and crush Tony like an tin can. 

 

Finally Wax is a iron ferring and steel misting. He does not have tin. Vin does. She will see and hear that missile coming and pin point it long before it gets close. Not to mention she can hear it launched, burn bendalloy, pinpoint it, and then act even if this magical missile of yours can somehow can go from 0 to 15,000 miles per hour in 0 seconds. 

Edited June 22, 2016 by Pathfinder

[asterion137 he/him]

5 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

First, any object, regardless its thrust, still need to build momentum. The missile does not go from launch pad to 15,000 miles. It needs distance to build up to that speed. Second, you still did not answer where is he hiding this missile that is larger than his entire suit to launch from? That is the type of missile that goes the speeds you offer. 

I assume his rockets at least have the thrust capabilities of this old 1970s missile: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprint_(missile)

 Given that Iron man himself can travel at mach 5+ and he doesn't have much space for thrusters in his armor, I think we can assume his missiles pretty quick as well.

Regarding the unibeam, please see the quotes below from this reference: http://ironman.wikia.com/wiki/Unibeam_(film)

"The Unibeam is a secondary repulsion blast that comes out of Iron Man's RT. It has to be used wisely, as if it is used too much, it can rapidly drain the suit's power. It has also been shown that it can be used as a search light. First used by theMark II armor, the Unibeam has to be charged, therefore it has been used rarely."

 

"The suit's entire power can be diverted into the Unibeam to perform the blast which can defeat even the most powerful beings like Thor or Hulk . Like in Iron Man the video game and 2 the other systems nearly go down. It cannot be used while in flight mode, only in hover or ground mode."

yup, the unibeam can be used in hover mode. gotcha. Tony doesn't even need to move around to hit vin. Just because he is in hover mode doesn't mean he can't move his arms or body.

So the unibeam cannot be used while flying (moving target), must be charged up, and uses most if not all of his power. Beams are not heatseaking. Every instance we have seen the unibeam used is either at point blank range or a stationary target. So given all of these limitations, how is Stark supposed to hit Vin? He has to remain still in order to target her, and close range, during which she can throw pushes and pulls at his actual suit to throw off his aim. This is also not counting the amount of time he needs to charge up while she is moving all around. And finally, (keeping in mind I haven't even needed to mention atium yet), she can burn bendalloy right when it fires (which she will expect as he has to charge it), showing her the exact trajectory so she may step calmly out of the way. Then Tony is mostly drained and unless he wants a dead suit of armor, he won't be using it again. 

Since when does vin have bendalloy? She never knew anything about it, and never had access to any. The OP never gave vin extra knowledge. Besides, Vin would 

Where does satellites come in? The OP gave him his armor. The only "satellite" that was ever mentioned was Veronica aka the Hulk Buster. Which again all that was already discussed. I could post my responses to that again if you like. Or if you would like to allow Tony planetary satellite busters (like the one he used to fight the pheonix force), then Vin gets to burn the mists and crush Tony like an tin can. 

The satellites are normally in his repertoire, unlike the mistmetal.

Finally Wax is a iron ferring and steel misting. He does not have tin. Vin does. She will see and hear that missile coming and pin point it long before it gets close. Not to mention she can hear it launched, burn bendalloy, pinpoint it, and then act even if this magical missile of yours can somehow can go from 0 to 15,000 miles per hour in 0 seconds. 

even this 1970s missile could accelerate to mach 10 in five seconds:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprint_(missile)

Given that Vin is at best a bullet-timer, mach ten is much too fast for her to react to.

 

Edited June 22, 2016 by asterion137

[Pathfinder]

1 minute ago, asterion137 said:

 

So for some reason it didnt post yours in the quote so ill reply below:

First, Stark is fueling his thrusters with his arc reactor. Where is the fuel being kept to cause this tiny rocket to reach such speeds but keep it at such a small size?

 

Second, hover mode means he is moving slowly, making himself more of a target. How does he not moving make it easier to hit Vin? You also did not respond to the range requirement nor the charge rate, nor the fuel requirement that would drain his armor

 

Third, refer to the OP, or earlier in the thread. Vin gets all of the metals. That includes bendalloy. That was the scenario presented by the OP. Please read the entire thread. 

 

Fourth, since when is blasting with satellites normally in his repertoire? he used one to fight the pheonix force, and one to blast the hulk. Out of the 60 or so armors he has (probably more), two times equals normally? I think not

 

Fifth, please refer to my earlier response to that missile in this post, as well as my responses regarding tin and bendalloy which both you disregarded. 

 

[asterion137 he/him]

6 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

So for some reason it didnt post yours in the quote so ill reply below:

First, Stark is fueling his thrusters with his arc reactor. Where is the fuel being kept to cause this tiny rocket to reach such speeds but keep it at such a small size?

The same way he keeps explosives that can kill a giant space whale thing inside a rocket the size of a large candle. Besides, 

Second, hover mode means he is moving slowly, making himself more of a target. How does he not moving make it easier to hit Vin? You also did not respond to the range requirement nor the charge rate, nor the fuel requirement that would drain his armor

It's not going to make it much harder, since Vin can't run fifty miles in a second. 

Third, refer to the OP, or earlier in the thread. Vin gets all of the metals. That includes bendalloy. That was the scenario presented by the OP. Please read the entire thread. 

She doesn't even know how to use bendalloy, so she wouldn't exactly be able to use the elaborate strategies you present. She wouldn't have foreknowledge that stark was going to drop a missile on her; she would think that thing falling out of the sky was stark himself. 

Fourth, since when is blasting with satellites normally in his repertoire? he used one to fight the pheonix force, and one to blast the hulk. Out of the 60 or so armors he has (probably more), two times equals normally? I think not

He has access to them normally. That makes them in his repertoire. He just doesn't normally have the opportunity to use them normally because they're normally not the most effective thing to use against an enemy. Anyway, I agree Stark's gonna lose round one. He never comes out with guns blazing like he should. Vin, on the other hand, will start by smashing him with a duralumin steelpush. However, if Iron Man gets out of range, she won't be able to stop a missile or even a decent-sized rocket swarm without duralumin, which will burn away her best weapons, steel and pewter.

Fifth, please refer to my earlier response to that missile in this post, as well as my responses regarding tin and bendalloy which both you disregarded. 

I disregarded it because Vin has no experience with bendalloy. She also has a strength disadvantage, range disadvantage, and her best weapon (duralumin steelpush) can only be used once before she runs out of her two most useful metals.

 

If i didn't day this before, Vin takes round one because Tony's too cocky to start by flying around and sniping her with projectiles/lasers/repulsors, while Tony takes the next two (he has prep for those rounds, so he could just nuke her if he wanted) Besides, if he uses aluminum armor, he is a good amount stronger than vin, and one hit from a repulsor or some kind of aluminum based rocket would probably end her. Besides, I'm not sure vin can get through the armor even if its made of aluminum. There doesn't need to be much aluminum there for it to be immune to investiture. 

[Important_wavy_thing she/her]

If Vin had full metals (including atium) then it would be a fair fight.

[IndigoAjah he/him]

14 hours ago, Important_wavy_thing said:

If Vin had full metals (including atium) then it would be a fair fight.

Really? With Atium? If a Mistborn has enough Atium, unless the other person does Vin's trick, they are pretty much guaranteed to win against something mortal without Atium

16 hours ago, asterion137 said:

If i didn't day this before, Vin takes round one because Tony's too cocky to start by flying around and sniping her with projectiles/lasers/repulsors, while Tony takes the next two (he has prep for those rounds, so he could just nuke her if he wanted) Besides, if he uses aluminum armor, he is a good amount stronger than vin, and one hit from a repulsor or some kind of aluminum based rocket would probably end her. Besides, I'm not sure vin can get through the armor even if its made of aluminum. There doesn't need to be much aluminum there for it to be immune to investiture. 

Agree that Tony can easily make his suit immune to Steel and Iron. But as for getting through the suit, Vin + Steel + Duralumin plus a tiny metal object = railgun. She could get through pretty much anything equipped properly. She can also flare Pewter or use that with Duralumin, and I'm sure that will do some damage to his suit, and if not then cause internal injuries

 

However, if both get to plan a lot, Tony actually probably would win. Vin is a great improviser and acts on brilliant instincts and the ability to quickly discern things, make intuitive leaps an formulate a plan on the fly. Her planning in advance doesn't often work, unlike Stark.

Edited June 23, 2016 by IndigoAjah

[Important_wavy_thing she/her]

Just now, IndigoAjah said:

Really? With Atium? If a Mistborn has enough Atium, unless the other person does Vin's trick, they are pretty much guaranteed to win against something mortal without Atium

It would be rather hard for vin to pierce his armour with metallic missiles, unless they were vey sharp. You also have to take Vin's weight into account. She would only be, what, 50kgs? So any metal that was heavy enough to actually crush Tony's armour would be much heavier than Vin herself. The only way to damage his armour using strength would be to duraluminum burst with pewter. If he has aluminium armour, then she should have Atium.