New Knights Radiant blamed for Szeth?

[RobocracyNow]

Hi, I'm new to the forum. I was recently rereading Words of Radiance and something occurred to me. Basically the thing I realized is that the new Knights Radiant under Dalinar could wind up taking the blame for Szeth's actions. When people start believing his claims about the return of the Knights Radiant at least some of them are going to wonder if the mysterious assassin in white who wreaked havoc with his strange powers is connected to these new surgebinders. At this point I think it's fair to say that Szeth is probably the most infamous surgebinder in  the world. Depending on the mixture of paranoia and political maneuvering on the part of other nations Szeth's actions could be portrayed as some kind of plot by Dalinar and his so called Knights Radiant.

Dalinar would probably point out how Alethkar was the first to suffer from Szeth and that unfortunately is where things can get very bad for him. Everyone knows how Szeth killed Gavilar (while Dalinar was conveniently absent). Word has also probably gotten around about the attempts on Elhokar's life including the one involving Szeth. A cynical mind might point out that Szeth has helped Dalinar secure power in Alethkar. Meanwhile all of Alethkar's neighbors have been thrown in disarray by the murder of their leaders while Alethkar itself stays relatively whole. And then Dalinar declares himself the leader of the new Knights Radiant, an organization known for wielding vast power especially in times of crisis and one assumed to have misused that power in the past (the Recreance). All the members so far are connected to Dalinar personally and the head of his guard even has powers like the assassin in white.

Now we all know better, but the fact is that there seems to be a lot of people out there willing to think the worst of the warlike Alethi and the Blackthorn in particular. There are also plenty of people who would have a vested interest in encouraging this view such as Taravangian and Ialai if she seeks revenge against Dalinar. It would really only take one clever person with the right connections to get the rumors flying.

[KnightRadiant she/her]

First off, welcome to the Shard! 

 

Okay, so I'll admit, you make some really strong points that could definitely be a source of political strain for Alethkar as a nation and the new Knights Radiant. It is highly probable that this sort of thing will happen in Oathbringer. One thing that Dalinar could have going in his favor is the fact that most of the other rulers think he's insane because of his visions. They would be slow to think him capable of something like this. But, they would still probably think he did it anyway. 

Szeth even "died" right at the perfect moment for this sort of thing to be possible. But since he's now more his own person and a member of the Skybreakers, he might be able to vouch for himself... if he wants to that is.

Because Taravangian's kingdom is also secure, someone might be able to draw lines back to him. Highly unlikely, but possible.

[BrightVoid he/him]

If a kingdom was to start spreading these rumors, it would probably be Jah Keved.  Taravangian wants Dalinar out of power for certain, and also we have the coded message from the chapter 84 epigraph to consider.  One forum decoded it, and it said, "Hold the secret that broke the Knights Radiant.  You may need it to destroy the new orders when they return."  The diagram needs for the new orders to be destroyed, and this seems like the perfect opportunity to accomplish that.

 

As a side note, I would love to have a scene where Taravangian finds Szeth and tries to order him to kill Dalinar.  Szeth just whips out nightblood and kills him.

[maxal she/her]

If Szeth becomes a Radiant as most suspect he will, then I certainly think having a known murdered within their ranks will diminishes the value of the Radiants. It will give added credence to old stories of Radiants being bad people... How can they defend having Szeth as one of them? Even if they turn their back on him, it will still be a Radiant which will make people believe Radiants aren't good nor nice people: they are assassins and murderers. 

 

I personally do not want to see Szeth as a Radiant, but it seems inevitable at this point in time. I can't see how the world would ever accept him as a one nor how the world wouldn't think less of the Radiants if he ever becomes known. This being said, I would totally agree with the world: this guy has murdered too many people to be worthy of magic powers. It may not be how it works, but it likely is how average people would see it. Heck, I tend to see it this way despite knowing better.

 

I thus say, Szeth may be an issue for the future Radiants future. 

Edited May 29, 2016 by maxal

[Jondesu he/him]

I'm more of the opinion that Nale intends to use Szeth as a pawn and a weapon, but has no intention of making him a full Skybreaker.

jW

[maxal she/her]

I'm more of the opinion that Nale intends to use Szeth as a pawn and a weapon, but has no intention of making him a full Skybreaker.

jW

 

Not that I am disagreeing with you, but is it up to Nale to decide who gets to become a Skybreaker? Shouldn't this decision falls within the hands of the Highsprens?

[Jondesu he/him]

Not that I am disagreeing with you, but is it up to Nale to decide who gets to become a Skybreaker? Shouldn't this decision falls within the hands of the Highsprens?

Yep, which is why Nale choosing him to join him, and giving him Nightblood, means absolutely nothing most likely. I very much doubt he's set to become a Radiant. A tragic story culminating in him becoming Odium's champion is probably more likely.

jW

[maxal she/her]

Yep, which is why Nale choosing him to join him, and giving him Nightblood, means absolutely nothing most likely. I very much doubt he's set to become a Radiant. A tragic story culminating in him becoming Odium's champion is probably more likely.

jW

 

Again, it isn't I disagree with you, I tend to agree with you but I have to ask further questions. What about the WoB where Brandon said Szeth was not able to breath in stormlight yet? And what about the book planning which implies one major/flashback character per book as well as one major Radiant? Just the book planning implies him (and Eshonai) are Radiants... This is my sore point, so while I certainly agree having Nale give Szeth Nightblood, revive him and give him a mission absolutely does not imply him getting Radiant powers and while I absolutely agree a tragic story is more inline with the character at hand as he stands now, I cannot ignore the "other arguments" which strongly puts him within the ranks of the Radiants.

[CJ Feboris]

There are some fair points in this post, but what I think Dalinar will have on his side is the desolation. With the everstorm, the parshmen will begin to change when invested, this will give undeniable credibility to Dalinar and the KR.

[Yata he/him]

@maxal: This may mean that Szeth didn't bond yet with Nightblood, Nightblood bonds with you if devoures some of your Investiture and you survive.

Of course Szeth can't breath in Stormlight yet, but with some extra Investiture provided by Nale (a couple of Breath maybe, holding for a few time an Honorblade or through the Regrow Fabrial) Szeth may survive the experience quite easly.

 

After that we have to understand if the Nightblood's Bond gives on Roshar the ability to breath (or use in another way) Stormlight, sometime ago I made a theory about how the Bonds are powered on Roshar (it's in my signature) but of course I have not sure proofs.

[RobocracyNow]

Thanks for the welcome and the insightful responses.

 

@CJ lidmk

 

The Desolation could work either way in the short term at least. Again, looking at it very cynically the Knights Radiant could be blamed for the Everstorm itself. It was Dalinar and his followers that were there when the Everstorm formed. That also happened to coincide with them conveniently rediscovering Urithiru. And Dalinar has been known to have met with the Parshendi before hand. And he has one of them in his own guard. I thought I remembered Sadeas was implying at the end of WoR he would've spread the rumor that Dalinar made some kind of deal with the Parshendi. I think there are enough facts there for someone to twist against Dalinar and the Knights Radiant. Eventually people will have to turn to the Knights Radiant for protection, but a lot of blame can be thrown around before people accept that.