Is it possible for individuals to have naturally high/low attributes (Specifically Wayne)

[Goatborn]

As I was reading this book, I was turning over an idea that I had during Shadows of Self: Does Wayne have a naturally low level of Identity?

 

This all hinges on the concept that people can have variable levels of Feruchemical attributes. This backed up by people having better vision or hearing than others, or simply being stronger with larger muscle mass. These are things that can be tapped or stored in metalminds. Warmth can be varied, and some people are naturally more cognitively speedy than others. When it extends to the spiritual aspect, things get a little more hazy since we aren't aware of how to directly measure them currently. Things like Investiture have been shown to vary among individuals, however.

 

Now, Identity. This is tricky to throw into words, as part of my reasoning is psychology based, but I'm not super well versed in that (but I love the Kaladin = Seasonal Affective theory). 

 

Trigger: The furthest back in Wayne's past that we are aware of was the first time he has used a gun lethally. According to the story, this is where our current Wayne begins. (In an alley. With a mugging gone wrong. Was it raining? Was there a theatre nearby? Is Wayne his last name!?) In my theory, this is the point where he turns on himself and divests himself of as much Identity as he can. This is likely also around the time that he Snapped.

 

After falling in with Wax, he starts building transient identities that are inconsistent. Some of his dialogue shows keen insight into the human condition and interpersonal relationships, while his viewpoint chapters are also somewhat inconsistent, with insights even then couched in vague terms. His outward identity shifts depending on who is around him, but not in a submissive/dominant relationship way. He still functions, he just changes.

 

Obviously, his Identity isn't as low as Feruchemical extremes, as he can't just access anyone's metalminds. But it seems... low?

 

Of course the flipside is that he could just have really high Communion.

 

Either way, it leads to a character that can empathise with pretty much anyone that he focuses on. A bit rambly, not lifechanging, but figured I'd make some noise.

[mattig89ch]

part of any good disguise is the ability to think like the character your in.  Most folks pick disguises close to what they are, in order for them to have an eaiser time of thinking like the character they are pretending to me.  I go the impression that wayne just has so much practice dressing up, and acting like others, that he can assume a new id at the drop of a hat.

[+hwiles]

I definitely like this theory; it seems particularly elegant that, just like mass, strength, mental speed, ect. that Feruchemists should have varying base amounts of spiritual attributes.  Wayne's abilities to perfectly imitate and adapt the accents and mannerisms of those around him has always struck me as fairly unrealistic.  It would make it a lot easier for me to accept this unique ability of his if it had some kind of justification like this, as he doesn't seem to have received much in the way of training or mentoring in the arts of acting and manipulation prior to meeting Wax.

[Pathfinder]

There is WoB where he states Wayne's skills are purely practiced and nothing magical about them. 

[Goatborn]

There is WoB where he states Wayne's skills are purely practiced and nothing magical about them. 

 

I'm definitely not suggesting that he's got the Feruchemical ability to store Identity, but running in parallel with that WoB his stats may vary through practice and his experiences.

 

Just an under the hood, behind the scenes sorta feeling.

[Uilos]

I think this subject is asking two separate questions. The innate talent of Feruchemists, and Wayne.

As we've noticed in Allomancy, there are different levels of skill and power depending on the person. Vin, someone with less than a year's worth of training, matched Kelsier in a steelpushing match. She also displayed advanced Bronze-sense with Marsh, who expressly stated him it took months to get to the level she was at on one of her first tries (this may not be a great example, as she was Spiked). But there is nothing to suggest that level of skill does not exist in Feruchemy, especially since the 'fuel' for the process is the person and not an outside source like metal. You're storing Health, how much Health do you have to store? Some people are naturally healthier than others. May be it takes people long to store certain attributes than others. This would be most prevalent in Ferrings than traditional full Feruchemists, who were specifically bred and therefore had some traits raised higher. Training does compensate for certain things, like memorizing. However, some people are just really good at memorizing things than others.

As for Wayne, his behavior is believable in the context that Wayne is not by our definition of 'sane'. I'm convinced that Wayne has some form of personality disorder, possibly antisocial with avoidant traits or avoidant with antisocial traits (hard to pin down because even in Wayne's POV he's erratic and you're not sure what face he is presenting is genuine). He is impulsive and erratic with a low degree of regard for social norms. He also doesn't like to take the blame for something. Most of his dialogue with people who call him on his behavior results in him either having an excuse or ready made answer or he simply obfuscates the entire thing in innane troll logic. I think Wax provides Wayne with an ethical (if not moral) anchor, as the two times we see him commit violence is when Wax wasn't in the picture (either before their meeting or presumed dead). 

So Waynes behavior and mannerisms are possibly his way of avoiding himself. I don't think Wayne exactly likes himself. And remember, this is the guy who arranged to drown a wedding because he opposed his best friend marrying a woman who, in retrospect, actually shares a lot of issues with Wayne. So to combat this, Wayne may have just trained himself to not focus on his Self and focus on others. How they move and how they speak and the hats they wear. It may be how he developed his empathy/morality. It may also be how he copes, like Steris and her lists. The actor Peter Sellers was reported to be like this, being able to improvise personalities so complete yet not having one really himself. 

So, as far as storing Identity goes, I think Wayne would have a very hard time at it than others. I don't think he has a sense of Self and his entire view is based on those around him, which is why he's a bit attached to his way of thinking in regards to Wax and Ranette. 

[CthulhuSpren]

 

 

that he can assume a new id at the drop of a hat.

 

I see what you did there.......

[DocHoliday]

There is WoB where he states Wayne's skills are purely practiced and nothing magical about them.

Which is typical BS vagueness.

No one disputes that Hammond is physically stronger than Vin, and where they Feruchemists, Ham's bottom line for Filling (the most he could store at one time) would be higher than Vin's; at least as far as Weight and Strength go.

Similarly, I'm sure there are Feruchemists who might be able to Fill more Spiritual Metals.

All in all, it makes sense that certain attributes vary between individuals, and Wayne may simply be lacking in "Identity".

To draw a DnD reference, his personality reflects his attributes, so perhaps he'd be lacking Charisma, but would be trained in Disguise/Bluff with skill focus feat.

I can't believe I just said Wayne lacks Charisma

Edited February 12, 2016 by DocHoliday

[Pathfinder]

Which is typical BS vagueness.

No one disputes that Hammond is physically stronger than Vin, and where they Feruchemists, Ham's bottom line for Filling (the most he could store at one time) would be higher than Vin's; at least as far as Weight and Strength go.

Similarly, I'm sure there are Feruchemists who might be able to Fill more Spiritual Metals.

All in all, it makes sense that certain attributes vary between individuals, and Wayne may simply be lacking in "Identity".

To draw a DnD reference, his personality reflects his attributes, so perhaps he'd be lacking Charisma, but would be trained in Disguise/Bluff with skill focus feat.

I can't believe I just said Wayne lacks Charisma

But I think I illustrated my point for the DnD fans that BS may have side stepped the question, as it's not necessarily "magic" in a sense.

I think that is exactly what the quote was stating. That Wayne is just very very practiced and good at what he does. 

[Stormgate]

What about Wayne's inability to assume the identity of the engineer until he put on a hat of sorts? Aren't we going to talk about that?

[Landis963]

What about Wayne's inability to assume the identity of the engineer until he put on a hat of sorts? Aren't we going to talk about that?

I assumed that was psychosomatic, of sorts. Like Violet in Series of Unfortunate Events being unable to think up an "invention" until she ties her hair up. Just a little thing one does to kick-start a thought process.

[Uilos]

What about Wayne's inability to assume the identity of the engineer until he put on a hat of sorts? Aren't we going to talk about that?

Some times, you don't feel in character until you find that special something. For me, I can't do a fight scene until I've done a small sword form over and over, going from how I would use the sword to how the character would use it. Other times it's a piece of jewelry or even shoes. Wayne's prop of choice are hats, and accents.