Taking up a Shard

[emailanimal he/him]

This is probably more appropriate for the Cosmere Theories board, but because I am relying on Secret Histories information, let's keep it here for the time being.

 

So, I have a thought and a question.

 

* We know that taking up a Shard required Connection to the Shard.

 

* We now can parse, from Khriss's comment about the Shattering, and a very recent WoB stating that Adonalsium was Shattered because the Holder was killed, that the actual moment of Shattering probably looked very close to the "inverse" of the scene of Sazed's Ascension.  In the latter case, Sazed was alone and there were two power sources which he, having Connection to both, was able to take up.

 

* In the former case, I suspect that a similar progression occured: after being killed, Adonalsium Holder dropped a body; 16 people should have been *in the direct proximity* of the drop, they would have done the same thing Sazed did: stepped in and attempted to take up the power.  As each of them had Connection to a specific aspect/Intent of the Power, they took that Intent and became a Shard.

 

This begs the question: if a Shardholder (like Leras or Ati) dies, drops a body and TWO PEOPLE attempt to take up the power, will the Shard be split into "SubShards" with different "SubIntents"? Or, in general, what would happen?

 

As an example: can I train two people to be (a) very active and be ( passively-aggressively hateful, kill Odium (heh!), and have Person (a) become Wrath and Person ( become Passive Aggression.  (these are all examples - I actually do not know what Odium is made out of)?

[baby he/him]

very recent WoB stating that Adonalsium was Shattered because the Holder was killed, 

woah. source?

[TheOneKEA]

What I don't yet understand is the mechanics of the Connection needed to pick up a Shard. Brandon has provided multiple WoBs which state that anyone can take up a Shard, yet the requirement to be Connected to the Shard clearly serves as a restriction. I will be interested to see how Brandon reconciles this.

[+Slowswift he/him]

woah. source?

 

Wasn't this mentioned in Secret History?

[emailanimal he/him]

Wasn't this mentioned in Secret History?

Not just. There is a WoB that was published yesterday on one of the forum threads - but I cannot for the life of me track it now. Anyone?

 

 

EDIT: Here :http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/52688-secret-history-spoilers-hoid-theory/?p=396930

     Under the spoiler.

Edited February 4, 2016 by emailanimal

[skaa he/him]

Not just. There is a WoB that was published yesterday on one of the forum threads - but I cannot for the life of me track it now. Anyone?

Here.

[ZeldaDad he/him]

Interesting idea. I suppose it should be theoretically possible? We'd probably need more details on why the shattering happened in such specific aspects (i.e. why weren't there more or less detailed aspects already, why the 16). I'd also wonder if inherent power of each shard plays into it. Like, the shards broken into their minimum amounts of power at the Shattering without becoming Splintered. So maybe a shard (of the original 16, so not including Harmony obviously since it's 2) doesn't have the capacity to break down further without Splintering. I don't know.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Endra kin'Fox

[Ari he/him]

I'm not surprised, it seems like Adonalsium just works as a more cohesive version of a Shard, and to Shatter a Shard, you need to kill its Vessel.

[emailanimal he/him]

Interesting idea. I suppose it should be theoretically possible? We'd probably need more details on why the shattering happened in such specific aspects (i.e. why weren't there more or less detailed aspects already, why the 16). I'd also wonder if inherent power of each shard plays into it. Like, the shards broken into their minimum amounts of power at the Shattering without becoming Splintered. So maybe a shard (of the original 16, so not including Harmony obviously since it's 2) doesn't have the capacity to break down further without Splintering. I don't know.

 

 Why the 16 appears to be fairly straightforward. Adonalsium's Holder died, dropped a body and 16 people stepped into the ring.  Whether they knew ahead of time that there'd have to be 16 - we do not know.  Whether they knew ahead of time what Intents they will receive - we do not know (but I suspect they did not - or at least not precisely). 

 

  I think the question of whether or not Shards can be subdivided or whether current Shards (except for whatever Sazed holds) represent minimum possible cohesive Intents is an open one.  

 

  There is a reason why in-world secret society calls itself the 17th Shard rather than "Hoidhunters" or "The Cosmere Research Labs Incorporated".  It might have to do with what *they* understand about being a Shard and taking a Shard up.

[ecohansen]

So what method of Shattering would make Odium most innocuous?  What if we took your suggestion of Wrath and Passive Aggression one step further, and said that what Odium does is first judge things to be hateful, and then act on that hate?  Could we Shatter Odium into Negative Judgment (AKA Grumpiness) and Action?  Grumpiness wuld just look at everything in the cosmere and decide that it sucks, but never do anything.  Action would always act, but for no particular reason.  Action would definitely be a wildcard, but it would only be half as powerful as Odium, and would at least have a chance of leading to good results sometimes.

 

But I'm sure we can come up with a more prudent Shattering scheme than that.

[emailanimal he/him]

So what method of Shattering would make Odium most innocuous?  What if we took your suggestion of Wrath and Passive Aggression one step further, and said that what Odium does is first judge things to be hateful, and then act on that hate?  Could we Shatter Odium into Negative Judgment (AKA Grumpiness) and Action?  Grumpiness wuld just look at everything in the cosmere and decide that it sucks, but never do anything.  Action would always act, but for no particular reason.  Action would definitely be a wildcard, but it would only be half as powerful as Odium, and would at least have a chance of leading to good results sometimes.

 

But I'm sure we can come up with a more prudent Shattering scheme than that.

 

This is my question as well. First, it would be nice if someone asked Brandon a question tomorrow during the twitter free-for-all (I cannot, unfortunately). The best way to phrase it I think is something like "What are the possible things that can happen if two people attempt to take the powers of a Shard whose holder has just died?"  (although this specific phrasing may give Brandon enough rope to give and Aes Sedai answer).  However, a "RAFO" as an answer is actually useful information.

 

In-universe, someone looking to do something like this must be very Cosmere-aware,  and must understand what subcomponents a Shard might have and how to build up Connection to them (in addition to being able to actually murder a Shard). 

 

Also, if any Shard is ever subdivided into Grumpiness, I vote for Grump to take that part up!

[fyodor]

I don't know if I'd read that quote as saying Adonalosium was a shard like the others or that he had a bearer/vessel. Just because he was killed doesn't mean that he had some kind of human host separate from the power. He could have been an actual divine entity who was destroyed, leaving parts of his power to be taken up by humans.

[emailanimal he/him]

I don't know if I'd read that quote as saying Adonalosium was a shard like the others or that he had a bearer/vessel. Just because he was killed doesn't mean that he had some kind of human host separate from the power. He could have been an actual divine entity who was destroyed, leaving parts of his power to be taken up by humans.

I don't know whether the Holder of Adonalsium was human (as in, a native of Yolen human species), but between this quote and the various Scadrial Ascention scenes (Kelsier taking up Preservation and Sazed taking up Preservation and Ruin) it seems like there are enough parallels to fill the gaps.