Tien

[SetStndbySmn he/him]

I thought it was pretty obvious that Elhokar is seeing cryptics("I see their faces in mirrors.  Symbols, twisted, inhuman"), so wouldn't he be a more likely candidate for the second Lightweaver?  Elhokar also has several powerful Truths he needs to come to terms completely with before he can start growing in a positive way:

I'm a bad king

I'm a coward

I'm not the man my father was

[Hawkido]

Hi All, new here, but I have been re-reading these books for quite a while trying to squeeze all I could from them awaiting SA3.

As to Lightweavers, I think that there are two that we "Know" have cryptic spren, one is in denial/early-proto-stage (the King) and of course Shallan.  There are two other good candidates, Kaladin's brother Tien, and of course Gaz.

Gaz's eye whacky theory:

We see Gaz glance away several times (once Kaladin mentally comments "what is he looking at?  Did something move in the shadows?")  And Once Shallan thinks he is turning to Spit (As he does seem to spit often and it might have been that), or he keeps seeing things out of the corner of his eye, which brings up the question, "How exactly did Gaz lose his eye?"  was it in combat or did he remove it himself, or was it removed as part of a "repayment of debts incentive".  At one point he lists other body parts he would have rather lost, but at no point does he make it seem that he felt he had a choice in the matter, and if it was self mutilation trying to rid himself of seeing the cryptic spren (perhaps always out of the corner of that eye?) it obviously wouldn't work, and thus he would lament the loss of the eye.

Tien Lightweaver theory (others have touched on this but the evidence adds up:

Tien has a notable memory, he remembers where he finds every rock.  Tien is artistic, fabulous sculpter.  Tien transforms Kal, every weeping removing his depression and most importantly, he transforms Kal into an excellent spearman as he knew that is what Kaladin wanted to be.  When Kaladin first fights the the farmboy Jost, Kal gets suddenly and swiftly trampled, Tien was not there at the time, Kal gets up grabs the staff again and this time he feels that "Something changed in that moment", but after a few good strikes Kaladin cannot deliver a "face Smashing" blow to Josh and Josh counters before Kaladin can speak.  So Kaladin hits the ground.  Everyone leaves, except the one person Kaladin didn't know had arrived... Tien, and he says "How long have you been there?"  This is Brandon's way of saying that the time Tien arrived is important.  That something changed when Tien Arrived... Kaladin also thinks about how Shallan and Tien both brought light to their families.

 

enough blathering on my part.  I looked through the forums so I wouldn't be too repeaty but I probably failed.

Edited February 1, 2017 by Hawkido

[Humpty he/him]

On 2/10/2016 at 4:31 AM, JosephOfHathsin said:

 

On a side note, Storms! How bout that Michael Kramer huh!? Lol I read WoK before listening to Michael Kramers narration of Mistborn WoA, after which I had the immediate urge to listen to WoK, and even WoR before getting the chance to actually read it. By Damnation, I think he should be Sandersons official Narrator of all his Cosmere books lol

He is awesome isn't he.. I never thought I would say it but the Audiobook is a lot better than a normal read through. especially his Stormfather voice.

[Guest]

Since I do not personally support neither the Elhokar nor the Tien theory I have to say the Gaz one sounds rather interesting and entirely plausible. I think. It has merit.

[Vissy]

Elhokar, a Radiant?

Honestly, I don't think I'd like it if he was Lightweaver. Perhaps something else, though.

[Hawkido]

On 1/30/2017 at 8:23 PM, Humpty said:

He is awesome isn't he.. I never thought I would say it but the Audiobook is a lot better than a normal read through. especially his Stormfather voice.

Have you listened to the full dramatizations of Graphic Audio?  

If you haven't here is the sample from Way of Kings.  I have all of sanderson's cosmere work from Graphic Audio.  It is stunningly fantastic.   Fully voiceacted, soundeffects and theme's and music... just stellar.  also look up Wayne from the second mistborn trilogy... Completely nailed the character, spot on delivery.

Edited February 1, 2017 by Hawkido

[Hawkido]

11 hours ago, Rob Lucci said:

Elhokar, a Radiant?

Honestly, I don't think I'd like it if he was Lightweaver. Perhaps something else, though.

Actually It might be that the Cryptics have rejected him as "Kaladin made the 'darkness' go away".  Perhaps they have merely withdrawn till Kaladin is not near as Cryptics and Honor Spren do not get along.  Or he has begun leaning towards being one of Kaladin's Squires.  Or perhaps even something else, something darker, like he is leaning towards voidspren.

[Hawkido]

23 hours ago, maxal said:

Since I do not personally support neither the Elhokar nor the Tien theory I have to say the Gaz one sounds rather interesting and entirely plausible. I think. It has merit.

other people seem to know when and where Brandon "sightings" happen... perhaps someone can ask "How did Gaz lose his eye?"  If he RAFO's then we know it is pertinent... if he says lost in battle or plucked by a debt monger, then we know not directly pertinent.

[Hawkido]

On 2/24/2016 at 8:21 PM, SetStndbySmn said:

I thought it was pretty obvious that Elhokar is seeing cryptics("I see their faces in mirrors.  Symbols, twisted, inhuman"), so wouldn't he be a more likely candidate for the second Lightweaver?  Elhokar also has several powerful Truths he needs to come to terms completely with before he can start growing in a positive way:

I'm a bad king

I'm a coward

I'm not the man my father was

I really don't think those are truths that are hidden from Elhokar, or anyone else.  If there are hidden truths it would be more along the line of "My wife was behind my father's death" or "My Wife and I plotted my Father's death, but the Parshendi beat us to it"  Remember Jasnah was researching assassination attempts, and Elhokar's wife in particular.

Edited February 1, 2017 by Hawkido

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Hawkido said:

other people seem to know when and where Brandon "sightings" happen... perhaps someone can ask "How did Gaz lose his eye?"  If he RAFO's then we know it is pertinent... if he says lost in battle or plucked by a debt monger, then we know not directly pertinent.

I believe it has been asked but I might not remember properly. I do remember someone asking if Gaz's other eye might have been light, which used to be a theory, and the answer was no.

The first step towards being more aware of all the WoB is to read those available on Theoryland. Then, you can go through the Events and Signings section of the forum. The task is daunting, but it is basically the only way to get to know what was asked and what was not asked. After all this, if you still have time, you can start to read those hidden on Reddit which is another very daunting task.

Personally, I suspect Gaz eye to play a role within the story, probably a minor one, but it doesn't appear as the kind of detail you drop in a story without ever expanding on it at a later time.

7 minutes ago, Hawkido said:

I really don't think those are truths that are hidden from Elhokar, or anyone else.  If there are hidden truths it would be more along the line of "My wife was behind my father's death" or "My Wife and I plotted my Father's death, but the Parshendi beat us to it"  Remember Jasnah was researching assassination attempts, and Elhokar's wife in particular.

One of Shallan's truth was "I am afraid". These lines could be truth, but as I said, I don't support this theory. I genuinely do not want Elhokar to become a Radiant.

[The One Who Connects he/him]

3 minutes ago, maxal said:

I genuinely do not want Elhokar to become a Radiant.

Not a Radiant at all? Or specifically not a Lightweaver, like Rob Lucci said earlier?
This is more me wanting my crackpot Willshaper theory to be right than anything else, but I am a bit curious.

[Hawkido]

5 minutes ago, maxal said:

One of Shallan's truth was "I am afraid". These lines could be truth, but as I said, I don't support this theory. I genuinely do not want Elhokar to become a Radiant.

LOL I understand why you say that.  But he is/was being considered.  But personally I want him to be redeemed.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

Not a Radiant at all? Or specifically not a Lightweaver, like Rob Lucci said earlier?
This is more me wanting my crackpot Willshaper theory to be right than anything else, but I am a bit curious.

Not a Radiant at all. I do understand there are abnormal circumstances which have led to not one, not two, but three member of the Kohlin household to be made Radiant, it would annoy me greatly if Elhokar were to be chosen, especially so he just doesn't seem to have the will nor the desire to improve people/events/things around himself as we have seen in other Radiants. My suspense of disbelieve is thus seriously trialed when I think of reasons why he would be chosen. Investigated, oh yes, certainly: he is a Kholin and a King after all, but I wish for him to be one of those individuals where the bond just vanish due to a lack of commitment from the individual. 

All in all, Elhokar sounds too selfish to be a Radiant and while Radiants have been known to be selfish at times, their greater motivation always ended up being non related to their personal glory. I read none of that in Elhokar.

There is also the fact I don't see the need for him to become a Radiant. He works well as a foil, as a mean to illustrate certain personality traits in Dalinar. Him being a Radiant would break this equilibrium and it wouldn't serve any purpose I can see for the character development of our main crew.

13 minutes ago, Hawkido said:

LOL I understand why you say that.  But he is/was being considered.  But personally I want him to be redeemed.

I personally wish for Elhokar to serve as a light post to illustrates Dalinar's blind eye and strong bias when it comes to his personal relationships which is something I think needs to be addressed. As for Elhokar, just as Navani, I don't see much need for him beyond that. If he redeems himself, then he can do it without being a Radiant.

This position is however not exactly popular: I think most support the Elhokar will become a Radiant. Not necessarily because they want it to, but because they feel there is too much evidence in favor. I personally feel this evidence can be played both ways and I hope to be proven right in Oathbringer. 

Edited February 1, 2017 by maxal

[Hawkido]

Ohh what if he isn't a foil or juxtaposition but rather a social statement of the light eyes being lower than the dark eyes and must become a squire under a former-darkeyes-now-lighteyes, but then have the social standing corrected to Darkeyes being superior and now he is the squire to the lowerclass people which would put him at the very bottom of the social class.

 

Also Jasnah is clearly the better person to succeed the Late King Gavilar.  she is older than Elhokar, clearly smarter and maybe this is why Jasnah is such a closet man-hater.  But I really think that something bad  happened between her and Amaram. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Hawkido said:

Ohh what if he isn't a foil or juxtaposition but rather a social statement of the light eyes being lower than the dark eyes and must become a squire under a former-darkeyes-now-lighteyes, but then have the social standing corrected to Darkeyes being superior and now he is the squire to the lowerclass people which would put him at the very bottom of the social class.

 

Also Jasnah is clearly the better person to succeed the Late King Gavilar.  she is older than Elhokar, clearly smarter and maybe this is why Jasnah is such a closet man-hater.  But I really think that something bad  happened between her and Amaram. 

I'd say the possibilities for growth are rather limited for minor character not scheduled to become major ones, thus I would sincerely doubt it will happen. Mind, we never know which character might grow on Brandon or not, but Elhokar currently seems doubtful. Though a minor side arc where he is a squire to a darkeye Radiant does have merit: I wouldn't mind reading it at all.

I would also support Jasnah as Queen. As long as they don't put Adolin on that throne, I am happy. 

[Vissy]

4 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

Not a Radiant at all? Or specifically not a Lightweaver, like Rob Lucci said earlier?
This is more me wanting my crackpot Willshaper theory to be right than anything else, but I am a bit curious.

Speaking of Willshapers, I think Adolin might have a slight chance of becoming one. This mostly derives from a chapter in WoK where it's Adolin's POV, and the beginning quote talks about Willshapers. He also seems to love novelty.

[Hawkido]

12 hours ago, Rob Lucci said:

Speaking of Willshapers, I think Adolin might have a slight chance of becoming one. This mostly derives from a chapter in WoK where it's Adolin's POV, and the beginning quote talks about Willshapers. He also seems to love novelty.

I hope to learn more about willshapers in SA3... I hope we see one so we can learn more about them...I had wondered if Tien was a will shaper but not knowing enough about them made it really hard to "guess" what exactly their powers permitted to one so nascent as Tien would have been.  But Shallan was transformative, both to her Father and her Brothers at a very young age.  Shallan was the "Force that had ahold of her father"  The conflict of her broken memory destabilized him as she blamed him for no good reason for the death of her mother, and he allowed it as he wanted to protect her.  And this allowed voidspren a foothold in his mind, making him rage and become powerhungry and demand respect for the honorable action he and only he remembered him taking to protect his child from a Mother whom it seems was a "servant" of the Sky Breakers, which also lead Hallaran to seek them out later in in life without ever knowing that in so doing he would be called to kill his sister once she was discovered again, had he survived the assassination attempt of Amaram.

Edited February 1, 2017 by Hawkido

[Guest]

The Willshaper theory pops around once every few months. Its main arguments rely on the one chapter epigraph, Uncut Gems, and several reader's interpretation wanting Adolin to love novelty due to his attraction to "foreign" Shallan.

Typically, I would dispute this last argument by stating Adolin doesn't actually love novelty or changes. In fact, each time change finds his way towards him, he reacts by being nervous when not downright anxious. A few examples of thus behavior would be how he dealt with his father's visions first in WoK and later in WoR: each time he isn't keen on seeing the world as he knows it shift towards the unknown. He also absolutely does not fit within the "adventurous exploring" personality description usually attached to the Willshapers. Not once did he exhibit a desire to travel, to see foreign cultures, to leave his boring day to day life. I would argue he is quite the opposite, preferring to stay right here, home, close to those he loves. The concept of home, family and ties are very strong in him which I read is incompatible with the unreliable and carefree descriptions also associated with this order. I would argue Adolin loves to pretend he is carefree, he loves to pretend all he wants is to leisure around, to not be reliable, to just do as he wish, but each push comes to shove, turns out he isn't. He can't ignore the plight of others, he can't walk pass abuse, he can't ignore work which needs to be done.

Which leaves us to Shallan, the "stranger" Adolin is naturally attracted too. He loves her peculiar hair and her different appearance which many interprets as being attracted to novelty. I happen to have a different interpretation. Adolin is half-Riran, he is blond headed which comes across often enough within the story. He insinuates having receive comments on how impure his blood line was and he complains on how idiotic it was for others to value light eyes, but dark hair. He also previously loved the fact Danlan wasn't dark haired, hence when he sees a gorgeous red head, yeah, he is attracted. It however isn't novelty, not for him. He has light hair, his mother has light hair: to him it isn't novelty, it was normality. This being said, even if it was an attraction to novelty, the argument above still remains the same.

As far as I can tell, Adolin just doesn't have the right personality to be a Willshaper.

As for the epigraph argument, well, I would state we can't know in advance which element of the book bore foreshadowing and which one does not. It might be this epigraph is foreshadowing, but it might also not be. It is impossible to tell, but I personally do not believe Adolin is in-line for one of the unfilled orders.