speculation Telsin is being held off-world

[KidWayne he/him]

Okay, so that is a bit of a leap, but hear me out. Most of this theory rests on the fact that no one - including the kandra - recognize the language of the "strange script" inscribed upon the "large metal plate set into a wall" depicted by one of the images in VenDell's slideshow.

The location of the suspected shardpool in Shadows of Self was given as "the Southern Roughs." I noticed on the map of Elendel Basin that the "Southern Roughs" are just south of the Seran mountain Range. So, I suspect that New Seran is in close proximity to a geographical feature that many of us believe enables world hopping.

The idea that Telsin is being held off-world is supported by the geographical features of the other slideshow images:

"Wax felt a chill as the images continued. Another shot of the strange language. A statue that resembled the Lord Ruler, bearing a long spear. This appeared to be covered in frost."

 

While it seems possible that the mountains in the Seran Range are high enough to be frosty, I don't think so. I expect mountains bordered by the Elendel Basin on one side and the Southern Roughs on the other to be more like the Appalachian mountains that are just slightly cooler than the climate of the lower elevations surrounding them. Also, they can't be too tall or else navigating them to get to locations on the other side wouldn't be described so casually.

Also, if the script is native to southern Scadrial, then how would the southerners know of the Lord Ruler? It seems like too much to credit the southerners with building a shrine venerating him. My only problem is why inscribe the words in metal? That seems like the behavior of someone trying to hide from Harmony, which would imply the Set and/or rouge kandra. However, if they are hiding in an off-world location, why would they need to take such precautions? Did they find a special, un-numbered metal plate left behind by the Lord Ruler or are they just imitating his method of hiding instructions from their deific enemy?

 

Please proceed with your thoughts and/or criticisms.

[icy1155]

Ehh, I could see it as going either way.  Personally I don't think he will introduce other worlds this early in the series...  I think that will be more for the Sci-Fi side of things.  My personal theory is that when Harmony was remaking the world, somehow the remaining obligators who had originally fled to the Conventical of Seran after the lord rulers death either had a quasi storage cavern or another compound that they went to, which ultimately ended up on the southern continent. 

[DSC01 he/him]

EDIT: I should read before I respond.

[The Shadow he/him]

I don't think Era 1.5 is Cosmerically important enough to warrant off-world travel being central to the plot. That said, there's the strong implication that Trell is an off-world shard holder, so it's very possible I'm wrong. That said, I just don't see it yet.

 

Regarding, Southern Scadrial, why wouldn't the know about the Lord Ruler. Surely they did some contact with the Final Empire, even if it was just trade. The shrine could easily be have made by Lord Ruler loyalists fleeing after he fell.

The metal is a more interesting question. Like you said, they could have just been following tradition, but it suggests more knowledge than the average citizen. Though, I don't think it was to hide from Harmony. Ruin couldn't change anything written in metal, but he could read it, I think.

[Landis963 he/him]

I don't think Era 1.5 is Cosmerically important enough to warrant off-world travel being central to the plot. That said, there's the strong implication that Trell is an off-world shard holder, so it's very possible I'm wrong. That said, I just don't see it yet.

 

Regarding, Southern Scadrial, why wouldn't the know about the Lord Ruler. Surely they did some contact with the Final Empire, even if it was just trade. The shrine could easily be have made by Lord Ruler loyalists fleeing after he fell.

The metal is a more interesting question. Like you said, they could have just been following tradition, but it suggests more knowledge than the average citizen. Though, I don't think it was to hide from Harmony. Ruin couldn't change anything written in metal, but he could read it, I think.

 

South Scadrial: They probably wouldn't know about the Lord Ruler because they were literally on the other side of the world from them.  Without any way for the Northern Scadrians to know about their existence (Also, no trade during the Final Empire because Scadrial was too close to the sun and the middle section of the planet was scorched clean of basically everything).  In addition, Ruin couldn't change anything written in metal because he couldn't see anything written in metal.  The medium itself glowed too brightly in his perception to make out words.  Preservation had the same problem, and there's a WoB somewhere that Harmony does too.  

[AndrewStirlingMacDonald he/him]

It's true that [barring some shocking and very unlikely deus-ex-machina revelation] SoScads didn't have any contact with The Final Empire. That said, Rashek did do some work on them, trying to help them survive. And he didn't age, so he could've definitely left them some kind of legacy, even knowing that it would be one that he couldn't shape the effects of (or even see the effects of) for a few millenia at least. We know that percieved time alters somewhat during ascension, and that huge, sweeping, changes as well as tiny, intricate ones can be affected. Saze wrote the entire Words of Founding and dropped it out of the sky in a hot minute. It doesn't seem far-fetched to me that Rashek might've left them a written account (obviously subject to editing by Ruin, but we know Ruin prefers to work in subtle ways, and it would've most likely been left largely intact with perhaps some key important changes) telling them who he was, how he saved their butts, and how to use some of the investiture to survive the millennia before they got to see their all-important savior again.

 ​Ooooooh, actually, that's kind of an intriguing idea. When the SoScads finally make contact, they are all ready and excited to finally meet their bountiful savior and worship him, only to find that the Elendel Basiners have killed him and decried him as an abomination. I'll bet they won't like that much.

[Landis963 he/him]

It's true that [barring some shocking and very unlikely deus-ex-machina revelation] SoScads didn't have any contact with The Final Empire. That said, Rashek did do some work on them, trying to help them survive. 

 

Not them specifically, as he was trying to keep a population around as a control group (i.e. no genetic and physiological changes like he did to the skaa and the nobles).  He definitely gave them some advantages, though (extensive cave system to hide from the sun in, tools to make allofabrials, stuff like that).  Also, explaining the change in leadership in a letter, so to speak, like you describe wouldn't be out of the question at all.  (Although actively setting himself up to be worshipped by a population that wouldn't see him or his works until after the World of Ash goes away doesn't seem entirely Rashek's style - he set up the Steel Ministry, sure, but that was to keep a closer control over the population of the Final Empire, not for its own sake)  

[AndrewStirlingMacDonald he/him]

Yeah, I doubt that he would've been trying to get himself worshiped, but even if he just presented them the basic facts: "Here's what happened, here's what I did to save you, see you in 10k years," it wouldn't be out of the question for a religion to evolve around their savior. In fact, it's often easier for people to accept their god when they don't have direct interactions. Look at Wax and Sazed. Or, for that matter, at religious figures from our world. Generally, the further removed from those figures we get, the easier it becomes to canonize them.

[The Shadow he/him]

South Scadrial: They probably wouldn't know about the Lord Ruler because they were literally on the other side of the world from them.  Without any way for the Northern Scadrians to know about their existence (Also, no trade during the Final Empire because Scadrial was too close to the sun and the middle section of the planet was scorched clean of basically everything).

I don't buy it. Even if there was no trade, that's a 1000 year reign. No one ever explored the world during the time? It's just not plausible to me.

But thanks for the WoB re: Harmony!

[Windrunner he/him]

It's not that they didn't want to, they couldn't. It was hot, burning, barren, unsurvivable desert for thousands of miles. It would have taken a small miracle at least.

[Landis963 he/him]

It's not that they didn't want to, they couldn't. It was hot, burning, barren, unserviceable desert for thousands of miles. It would have taken a small miracle at least.

 

Furthermore, this is a desert that puts Death Valley to shame - Even if they timed it to get a lot of ground covered during the night, as soon as the sun rolled around they would be incinerated.  (See also the village that got set on fire during the Catacendre)

[Angsos]

tLR or inquisitors might have been able to do it.

[The Ninja Yodeler he/him]

Is there any reason TLR himself couldn't have made the trip? I mean he did survive being burnt to bones basically. I think it's plausible for him to have made it to Southern Scadrial without that whole death problem.

[natc]

So the world after Rashek screwed up is essentially incapable of supporting life for even a few seconds, and he very much just jury rigged a solution for the poles because he couldn't fix it right

Making that trip would probably require a lot of gold and other things, and frankly the koloss probably can't be trusted without him around to make them do things.

[Landis963 he/him]

Gold, steel (for Compounded speed), and Iron at the very least (for Vin's coinshot highway trick). Possibly pewter and cadmium to weather the daytime, and bendalloy to lengthen the amount of ground covered at night.

[King's Twit he/him]

Gold, steel (for Compounded speed), and Iron at the very least (for Vin's coinshot highway trick). Possibly pewter and cadmium to weather the daytime, and bendalloy to lengthen the amount of ground covered at night.

 

depending on how feruchemical brass works, that with compounded steel might be all he needs. Steelrunning is orders of magnitude faster than Vin's horseshoe trick. Maybe a good store of bendalloy energy as well so that he doesn't need to carry food supplies, but depending on how fast he can go with the steel that may not even be a problem.

[Landis963 he/him]

depending on how feruchemical brass works, that with compounded steel might be all he needs. Steelrunning is orders of magnitude faster than Vin's horseshoe trick. Maybe a good store of bendalloy energy as well so that he doesn't need to carry food supplies, but depending on how fast he can go with the steel that may not even be a problem.

 

We are talking about covering half of Scadrial's circumference in less than 12 hours, 16 if we're feeling generous and he left on his journey before the sun technically set.  For reference, Earth has a circumference of 40075 km.  That's a distance of 20037.5 km that the Lord Ruler needs to, basically, run.  That's just over 1669 km/h on the tight schedule, and just over 1252 km/h for the generous schedule.  The most common passenger jet, the 747-400, only clocks in at 920 km/h.  

[King's Twit he/him]

We are talking about covering half of Scadrial's circumference in less than 12 hours, 16 if we're feeling generous and he left on his journey before the sun technically set.  For reference, Earth has a circumference of 40075 km.  That's a distance of 20037.5 km that the Lord Ruler needs to, basically, run.  That's just over 1669 km/h on the tight schedule, and just over 1252 km/h for the generous schedule.  The most common passenger jet, the 747-400, only clocks in at 920 km/h.  

 

Sorry, I was unclear. I meant that he could use the brass to store the sun's heat before it damaged his body. I figured that he could go a few days without food, but since he has to spend that time running, he would likely need bendalloy to store calories and water, and probably gold to heal his muscles. I underestimated the toll of the trip itself because I was focused on dealing with the heat.

 

EDIT: Also, steelrunning doesn't seem to have an upper limit for speed. We've seen plenty of FTE travel from Bleeder, and that was without the ability to even compound it.

Edited January 24, 2016 by King's Twit

[Landis963 he/him]

Sorry, I was unclear. I meant that he could use the brass to store the sun's heat before it damaged his body. I figured that he could go a few days without food, but since he has to spend that time running, he would likely need bendalloy to store calories and water, and probably gold to heal his muscles. I underestimated the toll of the trip itself because I was focused on dealing with the heat.

 

EDIT: Also, steelrunning doesn't seem to have an upper limit for speed. We've seen plenty of FTE travel from Bleeder, and that was without the ability to even compound it.

 

I know what you meant.  And so long as he's running at those insane speeds at night through a desert, he may as well use the brassmind as a heat regulator (because desert nights get really cold really fast).  He'd definitely be able to refill the darn things if he falls behind schedule.  And I think Brandon RAFO'd the question of whether or not Bleeder was compounding.  (It makes sense, though, because only one spike.) 

 

So just to lay out the consensus, for the Lord Ruler to survive a hypothetical trip to visit the Southern Scadrians, he'd need:

Lots of steelminds, full to bursting

One brassmind, moderately full.

Several goldminds, full to bursting

Lots of pewterminds, full to bursting.  

One cerromind, full to bursting.  

And last but not least, one bronzemind, full to bursting.  (If he falls asleep at any point during the run, he becomes a pile of molten metal and carbon once the sun rises)

 

He might need an additional cerromind and bronzemind, in similar states of fullness, just in case he wants to make a return trip.  

Edited January 24, 2016 by Landis963

[The Ninja Yodeler he/him]

I know what you meant.  And so long as he's running at those insane speeds at night through a desert, he may as well use the brassmind as a heat regulator (because desert nights get really cold really fast).  He'd definitely be able to refill the darn things if he falls behind schedule.  And I think Brandon RAFO'd the question of whether or not Bleeder was compounding.  (It makes sense, though, because only one spike.) 

 

So just to lay out the consensus, for the Lord Ruler to survive a hypothetical trip to visit the Southern Scadrians, he'd need:

Lots of steelminds, full to bursting

One brassmind, moderately full.

Several goldminds, full to bursting

Lots of pewterminds, full to bursting.  

One cerromind, full to bursting.  

And last but not least, one bronzemind, full to bursting.  (If he falls asleep at any point during the run, he becomes a pile of molten metal and carbon once the sun rises)

 

He might need an additional cerromind and bronzemind, in similar states of fullness, just in case he wants to make a return trip.

I'm guessing all that metal would just melt pretty quickly no matter how much of anything he had stored. Then he'd just be sitting pretty, burning to death. I didn't really think of that when I suggested he may have visited SoScad. Kind of a big hole I missed there.

[Landis963 he/him]

Speaking of him visiting SoScad, now that the book is out... How in the world did the Lord Ruler visit there over ten years after his assassination?

[Seonid he/him]

Well, after double checking to make sure we're in the spoiler forum, I have this to say:

Read the epilogue. It's not the Lord Ruler.

[TheOneKEA]

Well, after double checking to make sure we're in the spoiler forum, I have this to say:

Read the epilogue. It's not the Lord Ruler.

It certainly is not!! This was the single biggest revelation of the entire book!

[Landis963 he/him]

It certainly is not!! This was the single biggest revelation of the entire book!

Oh right. The question stands, though. Just, you know, different person involved.

[Seonid he/him]

That's true, but we have already seen that Harmony is able to return someone to life if they are still hanging around and willing to return. And the individual we speak of has been confirmed to be hanging around...