21/12/15 - AuthorityHellas16 - When Good Angels Do Nothing - Chapters 3 & 4 [V,D] - 5,137 Words

[AuthorityHellas16 he/him]

Hi all,

 

Here’s the next instalment of When Good Angels Do Nothing. As always, any and all feedback is welcomed with open arms. Sorry about going slightly over the word limit.

 

AH16

 

Last Time:

Hellas was arrested by the Inquisition and found guilty of possessing and consuming alcohol and interacting with “criminal elements,” for which he was expelled from the city for one year. After saying goodbye to his friends, Hellas left Heaven with his pet Fire Sprite Rakha and entered the Middle Kingdom. Hellas travelled to the forests of his old friend, the Mor’kai Scrios. After an intense argument about his actions, and what his deceased wife Jessica would have thought, Scrios leaves Hellas alone to rest. 

 

NB. The flashback to Hellas’ encounter with Abaddon in Chapter 3 originally showed the destruction of Hellas’ Fourth Company (available on the Chapter 1 & 2 thread). Following feedback that Hellas’ recollections about his previous life should be spaced out, I switched the two episodes. That is why you may read the same flashback twice. 

[Mandamon he/him]

The first few pages of this are exciting, but not really engaging, if that makes sense.  Hellas is doing a lot of neat things, moving earth and fire and creating things, but I really have no idea what's going on and whether this is relevant to the plot.  I don't have any rules for what he's doing with the Mark and Aspect and runes.  You could have a more "Lord of the Rings" magic system where we don't know how the magic works, but from the names, it seems more like a Sanderson system where there are rules.  I don't know those rules.

 

Ok, you do start to put down rules a page or so later, but I now have Mark, Aspect, runes, Push, Touch, Okhar, Forger, Sor, Wraithfire, and the Eighteenth Sphere, all to describe one magic system.  I'm confused (and ask Robinski; I write complex magic systems).

 

Pg 6: The flashback here, if I'm remembering correctly, is adding more to the others we've seen before, but a lot of the text is the same.  It's starting to build up tension for me, which is good, but I also don't want to keep reading this over and over. (Edit: I saw your note above after writing this).

I'm still a little confused on who Mor is in relation to the angels and Elohim, especially when you give us the "third Prime God" who created the Okhar.  I'm willing to give it another flashback or so to get things straight, but after that I'm going to be frustrated with all the names.

 

pg 11: You have the three demon gods, but then later talk about Lucifer and Set, who is the "disease god."  Again, confused on who is who and who is supposed to be what kind of demon.  I sort of skimmed over the next couple lists of demon types.  It's a bit infodumpy. 

A lot of the descriptions of the fight made me want to skim through it.  Not because it wasn't well written, but because I'm not sure what it really adds to the story.  The section about Hellas having to take a sip from his flask to steady himself is great and adds some good character building.  For the rest, I'm really not sure why Michael is so incompetent that he can't lead this fight.  It seems like they've been doing it a long time, and it wasn't that hard to fight the demons off.  Why was Hellas brought back to call out a few orders?

 

pg 17: "‘How did you see it coming?’ Michael asked as he picked his way through the corpses. 

‘I make a habit of being prepared for anything,’ Hellas replied. ‘Then, I’ll never be surprised.’"

--Is this the end of the chapter?  It reads like it belongs in the next one.

 

Overall, I really like the concept here and I think there's a really good story here as well.  So far I'm seeing lots of Captialized Concepts, which tends to pull me back as they then beg explanation.  There are a lot of names and classifications of god, angels, and demons as well, and we haven't really gotten account of what they mean.  Maybe we'll get more in the future, but so far I'm confused on the magic system and confused on how the Mor/offspring are related to Elohim/offspring are related to Abbadon/offspring.

I want to read more!  I just also want to know what's going on.

[rohyu he/him]

I really liked the description of Abaddon.

 

I had a hard time following the training exercise Hellas was doing on page 1.

 

A shimmering silver globule of liquefied metal slipped through the cracks and collided violently with the sphere of rock and lava.

 

 

Is the sphere first made of the dirt he pulled up from the ground?

 

 

Pg2:The sphere exploded, catapulting Hellas back and showering him with rock. He threw up his hands and enclosed himself in earth to shield against the hailstorm of lava and liquid metal.

 

 

I'm not sure why the rock hit him before the lava and metal.

 

Pg5:to see two of them crippled and one of them dead drove home how desperate the situation had become.

 

This line felt a a little too much like a 'tell' for me. Maybe change it to something like, “seeing them crippled and dead made my heart lurch and my pulse race.”

 

On page 6 Hellas mentions he has amnesia. Was this the first time it was mentioned?

 

pg7:Hellas leapt to the ground and sought out Scrios

 

 

I think he was already on the ground. He slept at the base of a tree, then inspected the handcuffs that had fallen to the ground.

 

pg9:‘Not necessarily,’ Hellas replied. ‘but I make a point of planning for everything, so I’m never surprised.

 

 

I think you can eliminate everything after 'Hellas replied.' By mobilizing the extra forces you showed me that Hellas has a point of being extra careful.

The final line drives home this idea. (‘I make a habit of being prepared for anything,’ Hellas replied. ‘Then, I’ll never be surprised.” ) I get the impression you really want to emphasize the fact that Hellas tries his best to not be surprised, but I think just having the final line of the chapter explicitly say so emphasizes the idea enough.

 

Pg11:To make matters worse, on this particular afternoon it was pouring with rain.

 

 

This seemed like too much of a 'tell' as well. I think you can get rid of that sentence and work the mention of the rain into another sentence. Maybe,

'A downpour had turned the normally dry dirt into muddy, treacherous ground. The sky was dark, illuminated only by the frequent flashes of lightning.'

 

At the battle, you sort of lined up each army, then went creature by creature explaining what they are and what they look like. This was kind of boring to read, and it was hard to retain all of the information given. Maybe try to incorporate these facts into the battle somehow? When Hellas is calling down individual groups might be a good time to talk about those groups.

 

Pg15:It took minutes for the enemy’s will to fight was shattered

 

It took minutes before the enemy's will to fight was shattered.

Or

It took minutes for the enemy's will to fight to be shattered.

 

The battle seemed anticlimactic, but I think that might have been the point. I get the impression that Hellas is a badass who can turn the tide of battle on his own, but he is in imminent danger of losing his skills or will to fight due to PTSD.

 

I'm excited to see what happens in 10 days with Lucifer.

[Robinski he/him]

Again, good action and progress, but some details and questions. I felt a bit underwhelmed by the battle. I didn’t feel much threat at all, which is fair enough I suppose if it’s a routine encounter, but it wasn’t presented that way in the beginning. Also, there was quite a bit of description in the battle scene which robbed it of urgency, I thought, although I do like the descriptions of all the 'aliens' in the story - I get a nice feeling of supernatural grandeur from those. Finally, a couple of reactions from Hellas that felt odd to me.

 

Looking forward to the next submission.

 

-------------------------------------

 

“black powder from his face”

 

This lava is very close to the surface, I'm not sure how it doesn’t burst through of its own accord.

 

Hmm, the 18^th Sphere, sounds awfully similar to the 17^th Shard.

 

“a rune the colour of flesh flashed on his forehead” – I know Scrios is not human, but I couldn’t help thinking that a rune the colour of flesh would be invisible on his forehead!

 

“grown faster than”

 

I was not at all sure of the time frame of this first section. Because of the training theme, I thought it might be a flashback to a time when Hellas was learning his skills.

 

“a small, running river” – what other kind of river is there? Seemed redundant to me.

 

“As he slept, the restriction bracelet clicked open and slid off his wrist” – I’ve forgotten what this is. It stops him returning to heaven?

 

One of the difficulties with the flashback / dream is that it contains quite a lot of exposition describing and naming characters. I don’t mind it overly, as I’ve forgotten these details since I last read it, but I think it would aid the impact if the repeated scene was punchier/ shorter/ more poetic or epic/ portentous/ grander/ less casual.

 

When was this blackout? I'm a bit confused.

 

“The rest of Heaven doesn’t deserve to suffer just because its it’s being run by idiots, does it do they?” or ‘The inhabitants of Heaven don’t deserve to suffer because they...etc.’

 

“‘Thanks,’ Hellas replied with an earnest smile. ‘You too.’” – I think this line is boring enough to be cut.

 

“mobilisation siren blaring like an air raid alarm” – I think the simile is unnecessary, we know what a siren sounds like

 

“‘The First, Second, Seventh and Eighth Companies and the Steel Hawks.’ Hellas pursed his lips.” – the tag here should be on the next sentence, as it’s Michael who is speaking

 

“I never do, you dolt, he thought” – another example of Hellas being a dick (i.e. unlikeable). Michael made a perfectly reasonable comment

 

“Expecting trouble, sir?’ the Announcer asked, frowning confusedly” – I'm confused too, they’ve already got trouble, surely

 

“Their dark grey armour, sleek helmets and crimson cloaks were designed to instill terror” – I don’t get how their armour is any more terrifying than the rest that you have described

 

Another thing about the army description, there’s lots about what they are wearing, but I don’t know how many of them there are. Ah, there it is. I think the number being up front would help with visualisation during the description.

 

Repetition of ‘monstrosities’ page 11.

 

There’s a lot of description and background here in a fairly large lump. I felt it drained the tension out of the situation and I skipped over the second half to the next dialogue.

 

“A shout echoed on the ground and the troops started moving. The Second Company moved to the front of the formation, taking up positions between the rocky projections” – I'm a bit disoriented here. I'm not sure which troops start moving. Also, Hellas is up in the air on a rocky outcrop, where are all his men, are they on the ground? How can’t the enemy see them?

 

“The signal arranged itself into the shape of a skull” – I instantly thought of the black mark from Harry Potter.

 

“Without you we would have had to mobilise half the Host to beat them back. We could have lost a lot of good people today.” – If they had mobilised more soldiers, could they not have won more easily and with lower losses? I don’t know.

 

“All part of the service” – This is a very modern and rather snide comment, flippant in the face of having lost many comrades in arms. Hellas continues to be unlikable.

 

“I’m the only one here who hasn’t killed any Fallen today” – I thought he was using offensive magic – did he only stand up on a rock and throw signals around?

 

“Probably nothing” - !!!! He remarks on how unprecedented this is, for a berserker to talk, then dismisses it? Seems bizarre.

[AuthorityHellas16 he/him]

Thanks for the comments as usual, everyone. Sorry I haven't replied; crazy week again, this week. I'll try and answer some of your bigger queries, so sorry for the incoming wall of text (as usual). 

 

You could have a more "Lord of the Rings" magic system where we don't know how the magic works, but from the names, it seems more like a Sanderson system where there are rules.  I don't know those rules.

Ok, you do start to put down rules a page or so later, but I now have Mark, Aspect, runes, Push, Touch, Okhar, Forger, Sor, Wraithfire, and the Eighteenth Sphere, all to describe one magic system.  I'm confused

My magic system was originally a bit like LotR, but I didn't find that satisfying. I've given it some rules, but perhaps they weren't clear enough. I've had Hellas expound on them a little, and I'll make sure that they stay consistent throughout the novel going forward. 

As for the names, I guess it would be easier if I removed some of the names. "Sor" was basically hyperdense energy, so I got rid of that one. I explained that Scrios' Eighteenth Sphere were the most powerful techniques he had created. Any suggestions on ways to make the others less confusing?

 

​When was this blackout? I'm a bit confused.

Close to fifty years ago, Hellas was found in the southern grasslands by Scrios and his dryads. He was taken back to Heaven, with no idea of his true name or his previous life. Occasionally he gets snippets that show him as an Okhar who was active during events over six hundred years before the events of the story. I'll make sure this is explained better

 

There are a lot of names and classifications of god, angels, and demons as well, and we haven't really gotten account of what they mean.  Maybe we'll get more in the future, but so far I'm confused on the magic system and confused on how the Mor/offspring are related to Elohim/offspring are related to Abbadon/offspring.

I'm still a little confused on who Mor is in relation to the angels and Elohim, especially when you give us the "third Prime God" who created the Okhar.  I'm willing to give it another flashback or so to get things straight, but after that I'm going to be frustrated with all the names.

This seems to be a problem that a lot of people have expressed, that the whole relationship between Mor, Abaddon, Damir, the Mor'kai, Elohim, the Okhar and the angels (geez, that's a lot) is unclear and messy. I've tried to remedy this by actually showing Scrios' story that he tells to the dryads, which aims to clear up some of the backstory. I'll post it below so you can see if it makes more sense. 

 

A lot of the descriptions of the fight made me want to skim through it.  Not because it wasn't well written, but because I'm not sure what it really adds to the story.

...

At the battle, you sort of lined up each army, then went creature by creature explaining what they are and what they look like. This was kind of boring to read, and it was hard to retain all of the information given. Maybe try to incorporate these facts into the battle somehow? When Hellas is calling down individual groups might be a good time to talk about those groups.

...

There’s a lot of description and background here in a fairly large lump. I felt it drained the tension out of the situation and I skipped over the second half to the next dialogue.

This is another problem you've all pinpointed, so thanks a heap for that. When I went back and read this, I was reminded of the list of Greek generals in the Iliad, where Homer lists who each general is (I think there's about fifty of them), where they come from and how many soldiers they'd brought to Troy. Suffice to say I too was bored stiff! I'll take rohyu's advice and incorporate it into the battle. 

 

For the rest, I'm really not sure why Michael is so incompetent that he can't lead this fight.  It seems like they've been doing it a long time, and it wasn't that hard to fight the demons off.  Why was Hellas brought back to call out a few orders?

...

The battle seemed anticlimactic, but I think that might have been the point. I get the impression that Hellas is a badass who can turn the tide of battle on his own

Rohyu is right here. I wanted to have a new take on the classic hero's roles. I've found that heroes tend to lead from the front (think: Aragorn) while matters of strategy are left to either weaklings (Lelouch from Code Geass) or comic-relief characters (Sokka from Avatar: the Last Airbender). I wanted Hellas to be a badass who's most powerful weapon was his mind, while Michael and Catherine were much more of the lead-from-the-front type soldiers. I'll add some dialogue for this before the battle to make the difference clearer. 

 

I also deliberately made the battle anticlimactic to try and show Hellas' mastery of strategy. I did this because later on there are battles that he wins either by luck or by heavy sacrifices. I thought establishing him as a strategic badass would increase the impact of those battles. 

 

“I never do, you dolt, he thought” – another example of Hellas being a dick (i.e. unlikeable). Michael made a perfectly reasonable comment

...

“All part of the service” – This is a very modern and rather snide comment, flippant in the face of having lost many comrades in arms. Hellas continues to be unlikable.

Robinski, you really have a problem with my protagonist don't you!

All joking aside, the first quote was, at least for me, what dialogue between close friends is like. You're friendly with your mates, but those who you trust above all others are the ones you laugh at when they fall down the stairs. I guess that's what I was going for here.

In addition, I've talked to a couple of soldiers who've seen active duty and they say that ribbing and teasing are a common way to ease stress, especially before deployment to an operation. 

As for the second one, it was sort of an offhand bit of dialogue. But after your comment, I figured that I could actually make it an indicator of how deadened Hellas is to conflict, in that he says it while looking at the dead Host soldiers. I think that could be a powerful image. 

 

Thanks again for all the commentary. The comments I haven't talked about will all be fixed in short order.

Look forward to giving you the next installment!

Also, Merry Christmas/Hannukah/Kwanzaa or any other festive holiday!!

Edited December 24, 2015 by AuthorityHellas16

[AuthorityHellas16 he/him]

This is Scrios' story I mentioned above. Apologies for the crappy formatting. Does it clear up some of the problems?

 

Hellas wandered through the forest, seeking out Scrios. He found the Mor’kai sitting in front of a small cluster of young dryads. 

‘What story would you like to hear today, children?’ he asked as Hellas reached the edge of the clearing. 

‘I want to hear about Grandfather Mor,’ one dryad shouted. 

‘Me too.’

‘We heard that one yesterday, Tachi.’

‘I want to hear about Uriel.’ 

‘Please can we hear about Grandfather Mor?’ 

‘All right, all right,’ Scrios said, raising his front paw for silence. The dryads eventually grew quiet. ‘I believe most of you want me to talk about Grandfather Mor. How about I talk about Uriel afterwards?’ 

At the edge of the clearing, Hellas folded his arms and leaned against a tree. He had heard the story many times before, but he always enjoyed listening to Scrios. 

‘In the beginning, before any of us existed, the world was a mass of energy…’

‘Like a big cloud,’ one of the dryads interrupted. 

‘Yes, Koko,’ Scrios smiled. ‘Just like a big cloud. My father was born from that energy.’ Scrios closed his eyes and bowed his head. A sky blue rune flashed on his emerald forehead and a snow-white serpentine dragon appeared in the sky behind him. 

‘Grandfather Mor,’ the children cheered, delighted by the sudden apparition.

‘Yes, Grandfather Mor. He was the first Prime God, the one who made the world. He created life of every kind, magnificent animals and spirits that would take your breath away.’ The image of Mor disappeared, replaced by dozens of strange animals that danced around the clearing. Some of the dryads stood and chased the images, leaving behind trails of crimson flowers and snowflakes. 

‘Unfortunately,’ Scrios continued, ‘for every event there must be balance, and a second spirit soon emerged.’ The delightful illusions disappeared and a tall figure replaced them, towering imposingly over the dryads. Hellas closed his eyes and looked away, his heart beating furiously in his chest. 

‘Abaddon, the Devourer, a Prime God whose only drive was to consume. He feasted on Aspect energy, preying on its most concentrated source: living things.’ The image of Abaddon scooped up a hapless animal spirit. He disintegrated the flailing creature with a beam of blue-white light and greedily absorbed the cloud of snowflake-like Aspect energy it left behind. 

The dryads were deadly silent. A few clutched at their clothes in fear. 

‘Grandfather Mor was not going to allow this monster to destroy everything he’d built. So he fought the Devourer for six hundred years.’ The image of Mor reappeared and tangled with Abaddon. The dryads cheered as the serpentine dragon swirled around the larger spirit.

‘What about Damir?’ one of them asked loudly.

‘We’re getting there, Koko,’ Scrios said, patiently. ‘Damir was the third and youngest Prime God, born from the destruction caused in the fight between Grandfather Mor and Abaddon.’ A third figure appeared, watching the other two Prime Gods fight. He looked vaguely like an angel, with a mop of messy black hair and a short beard. However, his face and clothes shifted and changed, like sand in the breeze. 

‘Damir allowed Grandfather Mor and Abaddon to fight, growing more powerful as they destroyed the world around them. However, when Abaddon was about to win, Damir realised that the right thing to do would be to join Grandfather Mor against the Devourer.’ 

Hellas chuckled. The real Damir had recognised that he would be Abaddon’s next target if Mor was consumed. The Destruction God’s actions had been motivated by pure self-preservation; Hellas doubted he was even capable of altruism. But how would Scrios explain that to children?

‘Together, Grandfather Mor and Damir banished Abaddon, imprisoning him far below ground.’ The image of Damir threw himself at Abaddon, and the Devourer vanished with a muted poof. The dryads cheered. 

‘With the War of Creation over, the two remaining Prime Gods divided the world between them; Damir would rule the deserts, and Mor would rule everything else.’ 

Scrios continued to talk for hours, regaling the audience with the story of the Mor’kai’s birth. He talked about his twin brother Set’s descent into madness, becoming the second Demon God and the avatar of Pestilence. He told them of the Great War, when Set freed Abaddon from his imprisonment. Stories of the heroes of that terrible conflict transfixed Scrios’ audience; they were particularly interested in Elohim and His desperate creation of angels to hold back Abaddon’s Horde. The story ended with Abaddon sealed in the Void and Set vanished underground to wallow in his madness. 

Finally, the Mor’kai finished and sent the dryads on their way. The children ran into the forest giggling as they went. 

 

[rohyu he/him]

You're friendly with your mates, but those who you trust above all others are the ones you laugh at when they fall down the stairs

 

 

I think this image sums up what you mean. 

[Robinski he/him]

Robinski, you really have a problem with my protagonist don't you!     Not at all, I think he's good and has strong conflicts, but I'll call it as I see it :-)

 

All joking aside, the first quote was, at least for me, what dialogue between close friends is like. You're friendly with your mates, but those who you trust above all others are the ones you laugh at when they fall down the stairs. I guess that's what I was going for here.   I think it's the difference between saying something like that out loud and thinking it, as if you don't want the other person to hear it. Also, and I'm no soldier, but I would imagine it's more of a thing in the lower ranks. I'm wondering what effect it would have on the enlisted (or whatever) men to see two officers skylarking around like that. More to the point, I didn't really get that 'playful' / morbid humour / tough love sense from Hellas' thought.

 

As for the second one, it was sort of an offhand bit of dialogue. But after your comment, I figured that I could actually make it an indicator of how deadened Hellas is to conflict, in that he says it while looking at the dead Host soldiers. I think that could be a powerful image.   Yes, I can buy that. It wasn't the thought as much as the expression itself, but it's something I should try and get past. Yours isn't the first story I've read which uses modern expressions in a setting that seems a bit at odds with some of them (in my view).

 

Also, Merry Christmas/Hannukah/Kwanzaa or any other festive holiday!!

 

Happy non-specific December festival to you too, and everyone on Reading Excuses!!!

[Shrike76 he/him]

P1 - "He spat the black power" - powder

P3 - "Your Mark has grown aster" - faster

P7 - "its being run by idiots" - it's

P16 - "I’m glad we had had you here" - had

 

On page 4, when Hellas is describing how the eighteenth sphere remained out of his reach, is where I felt information was missing regarding what the sphere actually is. Before that, in the discussion between master and pupil, it was okay, but here with Hellas reflecting upon the thing itself, I feel like the reader should know whatever Hellas knows about it.

 

I see your note about the repeating flashback, but I think there's still some overlap with the first flashback scene, which bothers me more or less as much as the first time you repeated it.

 

I'm not sure if Hellas' blackout has been mentioned before now, but if it has then I missed it. I'm a little surprised to hear about it, and I don't know why it wouldn't have been brought up earlier. I'm not sure why Hellas has holes in his memory.

 

I very much liked the descriptions of the battle scene itself, but there was a lot of information up front about the different types of foes they were facing. I glossed over most of it because I knew there was no way I was going to remember all of that. Maybe consider shortening those descriptions to a single line, or at most two, and expounding on it later when the added information would be necessary. The action was great though, and so was the way Hellas took command of the battle. I also liked seeing him crack a little and down some liquid courage, though I'm surprised nobody else noticed him doing it, or that he wasn't especially careful about it.

 

One thing that did fall a little flat, is that Hellas seems to be THE military strategist in heaven, but we don't see enough if it here for my taste. He very easily leads his armies to victory, but I would have liked to see a little more of the thought processes, or the information processing, that leads him to order the armies the way he does. This may take some research into more in-depth military tactics, but I didn't see him do anything that I thought anyone else wouldn't have been able to do. Seeing exactly what it is, besides gut instincts, that led him to leave armies behind, and to anticipate what his enemy would do and why, would have breathed a lot more life into the scene.

[rdpulfer he/him]

- Angel nerding out again over the ranks - Principalities and Dominions - okay back to the story.

 

- Not sure if I like that addition of the Doubting Thomas. At best, it feels like an over obvious wink to the Bible story, but at worse, it feels like a cliche. I think there needs to be another character, even if he is just a small character.

 

- I liked the scene with the White Face. While I'm a little concerned this could make Hellas too powerful, I'm curious how this plays into the story. 

 

- Okay, the addition of Razel makes me even more interested to see Hellas' plan unfold.

 

- I know that the setting is more futuristic than pearly gates, but sometimes I want to see how this plays out. Namely, that there's a media in the Middle Kingdom. It could be Weekly Reader Syndrome, but I was left how media looks in this world. Is there TV?

 

- The hellspawn's appearance seemed a little out of place - like they came out of nowhere during the training exercise, all five hundred o them. It feels really hard to picture.

 

- Overall, I liked this chapter building up Hellas' capability. I'd like to see what happens in the next chapter.