Storm-light might not be the only source of energy

[Moogle]

I'm pretty sure not... remember that Kaladin had that sphere with him that time he was out in the Highstorm. It's just a gut feeling, but I don't think humans can draw in raw investiture. With the obvious exception aside (please recall that this isn't the WoR spoiler forum and tread carefully when you respond to this) I doubt that a Radiant could inhale stormlight directly from a storm, not without filtering it through a polestone. Perhaps it's an advanced technique further along in the ideals.

 

What if you got the sphere recharged, sucked in the Light, then Lashed it faster than the highstorm moved, so that it managed to get back in front of it? I think there's some great potential here.

[Swimmingly]

Kaladin, why are you stuffing a gem up your nostril?

I don't want it to blow away.

Kaladin, we're safe. The highstorm's about to hit OUTSIDE.

I know. I don't want to lose my gem when I go outside.

What?!?

Teft said it was part of an "experiment". Apparently I'm supposed to suck in air for as long as I can during a high storm.

You're a storm-damned idiot sometimes, Kal.

I promised him!(and Syl won't let me back out!)

*sigh*

[Oudeis]

What if you got the sphere recharged, sucked in the Light, then Lashed it faster than the highstorm moved, so that it managed to get back in front of it? I think there's some great potential here.

 

I'm not sure that's necessary; you're assuming that there is just one point in a storm that charges a sphere. One single charged sphere likely wouldn't have healed all the damage of a full storm; it seems more likely that as the storm passed, the sphere did act as a filter, constantly filling with stormlight that Kaladin breathed in.

[Moogle]

I'm not sure that's necessary; you're assuming that there is just one point in a storm that charges a sphere.

 

Wasn't this exactly how it happened, though?

 

 

[vision starts]

Kaladin felt a deep chill—a rolling prickle of ice—scurry down his spine and through his entire body. The sphere suddenly burst to life in his hand, flaring with a sapphire glow.

...

What had that been? A vision? A delusion? His strength was fleeing him, his thoughts growing muddled again. The winds weren’t as strong now, but the rain was still so cold.

[and then he feels unconscious]

 

Sorta seemed to me, based on the sphere 'bursting' into life in his hand, that it was just the one point the sphere was recharged. The highstorm was really winding down at that point, so it would be a bit odd for it to recharge after that point.

 

And the one sphere didn't heal him much at all. He was still on the verge of death after that one sphere recharged. Teft had to spend weeks giving him more.

 

Hrm. Not sure how I feel about the theory. Even if it's not true, I think Lashing yourself so you stick in the highstorm as long as possible and constantly recharging your spheres could be an interesting way to get ridiculous amounts of Stormlight, though I have no idea how hard it would be to use.

[Darkarma]

My guess is the the recharging of stormlight is more of a pulse than a constant wave throughout the highstorm. Possibly when he saw the stormfather's face? They probably got the name windrunner because they probably surfed the highstorm to stay within that specific pulse or band of the highstorm to collect large amounts of stormlight. If gems were recharged the moment a highstorm struck, they wouldn't have to risk them as much. Exchangers would be using a mechanism that withdraws gems back into their place of business a few minutes after the highstorm starts.

 

As of now in the books they don't know when that pulse is so they just leave their gems throughout the storm.

 

Its more likely that Kaladin survived long enough to breathe in that first bit of stormlight which by itself was a miracle, otherwise he probably would have faired better if it had been a constant recharge. Or a brief period of time in which it constantly recharged.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Darkarma

[Oudeis]

 Exchangers would be using a mechanism that withdraws gems back into their place of business a few minutes after the highstorm starts.

 

Why solve a problem they don't have? Is there an epidemic of gemstone loss? Why construct a complicated machine, leave the moving parts out for the highstorms to damage, and create a system that opens a door to a highstorm in the strongest part of a highstorm... just so you don't have to leave spheres outside to get wet? No one mentions spheres being damaged, and the only time we hear that they might get stolen is when Gaz has simply tied them to a wall in the middle of a bunch of slaves and thieves.

 

Maybe in the future when "retractable machines" are a real thing, people will do that more frequently. These people have medieval technology. It takes someone with the resources of a highprince to try to make a bridge that goes up and down, and that fails. Yet you use the lack of futuristic technology to solve a problem that doesn't exist to prove your point?

[Swimmingly]

Why solve a problem they don't have? Is there an epidemic of gemstone loss? Why construct a complicated machine, leave the moving parts out for the highstorms to damage, and create a system that opens a door to a highstorm in the strongest part of a highstorm... just so you don't have to leave spheres outside to get wet? No one mentions spheres being damaged, and the only time we hear that they might get stolen is when Gaz has simply tied them to a wall in the middle of a bunch of slaves and thieves.

 

Maybe in the future when "retractable machines" are a real thing, people will do that more frequently. These people have medieval technology. It takes someone with the resources of a highprince to try to make a bridge that goes up and down, and that fails. Yet you use the lack of futuristic technology to solve a problem that doesn't exist to prove your point?

Unless youve got the spheres in a simple lever and pulley system, which you operate yourself. I think they can manage that.

[Oudeis]

Unless youve got the spheres in a simple lever and pulley system, which you operate yourself. I think they can manage that.

 

Again... why? Why expose a machine with moving parts to the fury of a highstorm? What problem are you solving?

[Moogle]

Again... why? Why expose a machine with moving parts to the fury of a highstorm? What problem are you solving?

 

Thieves steal gems left out in highstorms, or so Kaladin notes at one point. I think a retractable thing would be quite useful just so thieves have less time to steal them.

[Kurkistan]

Someone with the resources to make, maintain, and use the retractable thing with a low enough catastrophic failure rate that it is worth using would also have the resources to just install a really sturdy cage.

[Oudeis]

Thieves steal gems left out in highstorms, or so Kaladin notes at one point. I think a retractable thing would be quite useful just so thieves have less time to steal them.

 

What Kurk said. As I've noted, we have exactly one reference to theft during highstorms, and that's the fact that Gaz, not a terribly intelligent or stable man, is paranoid of theft when he leaves his own spheres stuck to a wall.

 

There is no problem that needs solving.

[Arook]

Ya a sturdy cage on the top of a building is far more effective then any lever system.

[Kurkistan]

And if you really want to have some mechanism, a pair of chutes will probably be your best bet: Release the spheres from inside a building into the cage on the outside for a few minutes, then open up a chute on the bottom to bring them back in.

[Asha'man Logain]

I would like to point out that the Alethi writing does seem to be very similar to a soundwave pattern. In addition it is the paladromic SOUND of a name that is holy, not it's spelling.

[Oudeis]

I would like to point out that the Alethi writing does seem to be very similar to a soundwave pattern. In addition it is the paladromic SOUND of a name that is holy, not it's spelling.

 

That's a bit of an ethnocentric viewpoint... after all, in japan, "Tomato" is a palindrome. Not every spelling system is a slave to the "letter not phoneme" form.

[Musica]

I'm pretty sure not... remember that Kaladin had that sphere with him that time he was out in the Highstorm. It's just a gut feeling, but I don't think humans can draw in raw investiture. With the obvious exception aside (please recall that this isn't the WoR spoiler forum and tread carefully when you respond to this) I doubt that a Radiant could inhale stormlight directly from a storm, not without filtering it through a polestone. Perhaps it's an advanced technique further along in the ideals.

 

 

 

I don't mean draw on raw Stormlight, but if I have a few spheres with me, and I'm taking in their Stormlight even as they are recharged, would they fill up again? 

I'm also wondering if the face in the Storm is the one providing the power... in the WoR chapters Syl 'confirms' for us who it is (well, after a fashion), but what does it mean? and to whom does that face belong to really?

[DocHoliday]

Hey fellas, I'm late to this thread, but I've got a few ideas I'd like to bounce off ya. Better late than never, kolo?

Sorry if this is a little confusing. 

 

To start, I want to make a distinction for this topic: Storm-light only equals spiritual energy gain from exposure to storms.

 

What if the storms are not the original source of spiritual energy for The Radiants, or at least not the only source?

 

Urithiru is apparently located closest to honor and west of Alethkar

Origin is to the east of Roshar 

 

Storms are a build up of spiritual energy some place off the coast of Roshar that explodes out on a weekly basis. I feel storms consist of 2 waves.The first is the storm wall the physical wave of matter blown out of the origin. The second is a wave of spiritual energy trailing the first. This wave temporarily folds the physical realm into the spiritual during this time the gems exposed to the second wave fill with storm-light. During Kaladin's time in the storm he hits a spot in the storm where all his pain is gone and he sees a massive inhuman face in total darkness. After he sees the face, his one sphere burst to life.

 

I think that dark face belongs to odium, and it's also what started the belief that Jezrien rides the storm.

 

Roshar has such large amounts of loose spiritual energy compared to the others, on Sel the loose energy appears to be confined to the cognitive and spiritual realm. 

I agree with some of your points, but a majority I think need some tweaking.

Firstly, I'm relatively certain that Stormlight is a direct access to Spiritual energy, and is not the foci like metal is on Scadrial. I'm not 100% on board with Isomere Waveform conspiracy, but this is due to lack of evidence; we are on book 1 still so BS can only drop hints. I think Isomere's theory is promising.

 

I've always felt that the Highstorms have always been around, however I don't believe they were anywhere near as destructive in ancient times as they are now. My gut feeling, no evidence I'm afraid, is that Honor Shattering plays a decisive role. Tanavast death left large amounts of loose Investiture supercharging the storms into what they are.

 

I'm not so sure that there are 2 separate waves to the Storms. Kaladin most certainly experiences a lull of some sort, but Dalinar's visions suggests that the Spiritual wall is in tandem with the physical stormwall. His visions always begin when the stormwall hits, not shortly after. 

So this throws a wrench in the works.

 

I'm 100% certain that the storm face is not Odium. For one he's on Brayse. For 2 the face says. "Odium reigns." Weird to refer to oneself in the third person. We haven't seen any other Shard refer to themselves as such. Point 3: It smiles. Benevolently if memory serves. I don't see anyone hate filled offering a smile for any reason,

Mistborn Hero of Ages spoilers 

besides something like Ati killing Elend, that just isn't how the face is described.

 

As in mine. That comment about the winter weather still bugs me. Something was different back then, I just do not think a complete reversal of Roshar's ecology is necessary to accommodate it. +1

Has it been considered that the calendar from the Heraldic Epochs was different from modern Roshar's?  This would go a long way to explaining the time discrepancies as Dalinar sees them.

 

I don't mean draw on raw Stormlight, but if I have a few spheres with me, and I'm taking in their Stormlight even as they are recharged, would they fill up again? 

I'm also wondering if the face in the Storm is the one providing the power... in the WoR chapters Syl 'confirms' for us who it is (well, after a fashion), but what does it mean? and to whom does that face belong to really?

WoR Spoilers

I think this is exactly what Parshendi Storm Form is. Szeth talks about Voidbringers holding Stormlight perfectly. I think Storm Form allows them to weather the Highstorm, which in turn allows them to move with it. Filling up gemstones and using it repeatedly. There's even a passage from Jasnah' s notes that they come from nowhere like the Storm.

[Arook]

Hey fellas, I'm late to this thread, but I've got a few ideas I'd like to bounce off ya. Better late than never, kolo?

I agree with some of your points, but a majority I think need some tweaking.

Firstly, I'm relatively certain that Stormlight is a direct access to Spiritual energy, and is not the foci like metal is on Scadrial. I'm not 100% on board with Isomere Waveform conspiracy, but this is due to lack of evidence; we are on book 1 still so BS can only drop hints. I think Isomere's theory is promising.

 

I've always felt that the Highstorms have always been around, however I don't believe they were anywhere near as destructive in ancient times as they are now. My gut feeling, no evidence I'm afraid, is that Honor Shattering plays a decisive role. Tanavast death left large amounts of loose Investiture supercharging the storms into what they are.

 

I'm not so sure that there are 2 separate waves to the Storms. Kaladin most certainly experiences a lull of some sort, but Dalinar's visions suggests that the Spiritual wall is in tandem with the physical stormwall. His visions always begin when the stormwall hits, not shortly after. 

So this throws a wrench in the works.

 

I'm 100% certain that the storm face is not Odium. For one he's on Brayse. For 2 the face says. "Odium reigns." Weird to refer to oneself in the third person. We haven't seen any other Shard refer to themselves as such. Point 3: It smiles. Benevolently if memory serves. I don't see anyone hate filled offering a smile for any reason,

Mistborn Hero of Ages spoilers 

besides something like Ati killing Elend, that just isn't how the face is described.

 

Has it been considered that the calendar from the Heraldic Epochs was different from modern Roshar's?  This would go a long way to explaining the time discrepancies as Dalinar sees them.

 

WoR Spoilers

I think this is exactly what Parshendi Storm Form is. Szeth talks about Voidbringers holding Stormlight perfectly. I think Storm Form allows them to weather the Highstorm, which in turn allows them to move with it. Filling up gemstones and using it repeatedly. There's even a passage from Jasnah' s notes that they come from nowhere like the Storm.

 

So as I have sat and thought about it First I agree that the face is most likely not odium but, a Spren of what I would bet is Adonalsium spren. Though I don't recall the face being benevolent or smiling. 

 

We know that spren are part of a valve for controlling the loose energy from honors shattering so maybe the increase in power explains that.

 

As for the wave it could be that the point were a gem is recharged is the height of the spiritual part and that the storm wall is just the start of the spiritual wave. 

 

As for the difference in calendar I agree that is most likely true the modern calendar is a Vorin calendar and vorinisum did not start until later as far as I can tell from dalinars vision  "by the three gods hebb". If each month has 10 weeks in the vorin calendar maybe their months were shorter.

 

Storm form probably does allow for perfect holding of storm light but they already move through the storm.

[DocHoliday]

They move through the Storm???

Evidence please.

 

Also, why did you bring up my quote on By The 3 Gods?

 

Edit: wanted to add that I read Kaladin being strung up, the face is not benevolent. Merely large, inhuman, and smiling.

Edited January 29, 2014 by DocHoliday

[Arook]

They move through the Storm???

Evidence please.

 

Also, why did you bring up my quote on By The 3 Gods?

 

Edit: wanted to add that I read Kaladin being strung up, the face is not benevolent. Merely large, inhuman, and smiling.

Kaladin mentions that they burned some bridges during a storm at one point.

 

yes the three gods thing was confusing sorry I was trying to point out that they did not follow vornism at the time of the vision.

 

ya the face never sounds nice to me.

[DocHoliday]

It doesn't sound nice, but the fact that Kaladin is staring at a head larger than a massive thunder head, and doesn't feel intimidated by looking lends me to believe that the face at least isn't aggressive or evil looking.

[cris34b]

And what of Kharbranth? Of Sesemelex Dar? Of the High stone outcropping from the "Starfalls" vision? Are those too the result of side-effects?

 

One time might have been a side-effect, but we've been shown several examples of structures built with protection against Highstorms in prehistoric Roshar. There is a pattern that seems increasingly unlikely to be one of coincidence. There is also the line from Kaladin's out-of-body experience of "no one rides the Storms anymore", which more or less proves that there were at least something similar to today's Highstorms back then.

 

There are signs that the Storms might have been less frequent in prehistoric Roshar. Perusing the "Highway to the Sun" chapter, I found this quote:

"With the no one rides the Storms anymore," quote, I just got the idea that "riding the Storms" might have been the way that people traveled to Urithiru. Not accessible by walking, but maybe you just waited for a storm, and hitched a ride as it moved Westward. Westward towards Urithiru.

 

Also, it was said that the water of the Purelake drains during Highstorms. That seems evidence that there is something more than evolution going on with the flora and fauna. How would a lake evolve, after all? That is... Unless the Purelake is actually alive, maybe supporting the Shardpool idea.

(magic fish, it explains so much. Wait.. do the fish get sucked underground during storms too? Scary)

But it also could be that something big is sleeping under the Purelake and is protecting the lake for some reason. Oh god, I've just given myself more questions than answers.

Edited February 6, 2014 by cris34b

[Aether]

Also, it was said that the water of the Purelake drains during Highstorms. That seems evidence that there is something more than evolution going on with the flora and fauna. How would a lake evolve, after all? That is... Unless the Purelake is actually alive, maybe supporting the Shardpool idea.

(magic fish, it explains so much. Wait.. do the fish get sucked underground during storms too? Scary)

But it also could be that something big is sleeping under the Purelake and is protecting the lake for some reason. Oh god, I've just given myself more questions than answers.

I think you might have a slight misconception of what evolution is. It pertains exclusively to living beings, not nature itself. The Purelake did not "evolve", but is likely a naturally occurring phenomenon caused by more or less completely natural effects. The water's draining before a Highstorm might seems strange, but this has real world equivalents, such as when the water retreats before the arrival of a Tsunami (caused by the massive displacement of huge volumes of water). It is likely caused purely (see what I did there?  ) by the Highstorm itself, draining and absorbing water from the ocean and other big bodies of water.

 

While the Purelake might be a Shardpool, that particular fact probably have little to do at all with this particular characteristic of the Purelake.

 

EDIT: Also, I fail to see why my particular post was relevant for your idea. I was trying to establish that there were most likely Highstorms in pre-Aharietiam Roshar. Your idea about Stormriding is interesting, though.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Aether