Speculation: the night will reign

[Caevita he/him]

I was reading a death rattle from tWoK, the one that says, "so the night will reign, for the choice of honor is life."  Well.  In addition to sounding really ominous, it didn't really make any sense to me initially.  So naturally, i put all kinds of thought into figuring it out.

 

I basically came up with three thoughts, none of which are clearly correct or incorrect at this point.  One: "the night" reminds me of the stars and of certain beings associated with them, which I can't get into here.  See: Trell, for those interested.  But I wasn't really able to make any concrete connections as to why or how Trell might be involved.

EDIT: except for the fact that one of the interludes involved a religion that seemed very similar to Trellism.  Very, very similar.

 

Two: the rattle could just be ominous in the obvious ways.  Maybe Honor put too much of himself into trying to protect the humans or parshendi or both, and ultimately doomed them to a "dark" existence, or possibly a lack of said existence.

 

But three is where it gets interesting (if more far-fetched).  We could be talking about the nightwatcher, someone whose relationship to Cultivation I still need explained to me, but I think I understand enough.  Honor, currently-- or, well, his cognitive shadow/spren, the Stormfather, has pretty much given up on mankind.  On... life, one might say.  But this deathrattle implies that there is still hope for him.  It claims that his choice is (or will be, or was) life.  I'm going to assume "will be" for the sake of the theory.  If we take as a given Odium will eventually be defeated on Roshar, then the Nightwatcher might well be the resident authority... and this claims that Honor (well, or lowercase-h honor) will be the (or at least a) driving force in making it happen.  Makes me better able to put up with his infuriating behavior in WoR.  I mean, he's still being a jerk right now.  But you know.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Caevita

[natc]

Crazy theory time: Nightblood achieves Ascension.

[Moogle]

One of my interpretations of that Death Rattle that night (Odium) will win (reign) because someone honorable will choose life over death, ie. maybe the Radiants lead to Odium winning. (Nalan seems to think they lead to Desolations...)

 

Odium is linked to the night in a few places - see, for example, Shallan speaking of the "dreaded nightspren", the listener nightform, the listener stanza saying "though its coming brings the gods their night", etc.

 

It might link up with this Death Rattle: “I hold the suckling child in my hands, a knife at his throat, and know that all who live wish me to let the blade slip. Spill its blood upon the ground, over my hands, and with it gain us further breath to draw.”

 

To go really speculative, the Radiants might oppose Taravangian (who kills innocents in order to win) because they believe in journey before destination, and this infighting leads to Odium winning. Or maybe without Taravangian the Radiants are not powerful enough this Desolation.

 

---

 

On your interpretation, I don't agree with the Nightwatcher as being the night. She watches the night, she's not necessarily the night herself. I also don't agree with the assumption that Odium will be defeated, as he looks like he might be a big recurring villain in future Cosmere books, which means he should be freed from Roshar at some point. But your theory is interesting, and I'll have to think more about it.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Moogle

[KidWayne he/him]

@ natc

 

The short and simple "crazy" theories are my favorite. I love this idea.

 

Nightblood would be a perfect fit for a "Justice" shard if one exists. Maybe a reforged Devotion if it doesn't; the thing is nothing if not devoted to "destroying evil."

[Caevita he/him]

I am suddenly really glad i brought this up.  I completely forgot about Nightblood.

 

I disagree with the idea that conflict with Taravangian will be a problem, though.  Taravangian is all about life (For which essential should we strive? ....Preservation, to shelter a seed for humanity from the storm that will come.  I know, I didn't get the quote word for word, but that's a Diagram quote).

 

"Though its coming brings the gods their night" actually does not sound like an implication that Odium is related to the night to me at all.  It's talking about its coming being the god-killer, as I see it.  But even if it isn't "the gods" includes Odium, so if the "night" is something other than death in this case, it sounds like Odium is as much a victim as Honor or Cultivation.

 

The “I hold the suckling child in my hands, a knife at his throat, and know that all who live wish me to let the blade slip. Spill its blood upon the ground, over my hands, and with it gain us further breath to draw.”  seems like a pretty good connection though.  An implication of a darker tilt to the "night will reign" thing.  I don't really know though... I can't tell if it's talking about breath, Breath, or Stormlight.  (the last two are related to inhaling, too)

[Lupis]

I had wondered if the person writing it down assumed it was night, but perhaps it should be Knight?

[natc]

They aren't speaking English though. It won't make sense.

[Caevita he/him]

I had wondered if the person writing it down assumed it was night, but perhaps it should be Knight?

 

That's very possible.  I like this idea.  I mean, they aren't speaking English, but Brandon has never shied away from English-specific wordplay in the Stormlight Archive (pit-tance).  If that is the case, though, it's odd that its the Knight, and not Knights.  Seems to indicate that one specific Knight would accomplish something far beyond what any other has done, and that would have repercussions between the orders since that KR would have to come from one order or another (unless they would't-- I've seen mostly-baseless speculation that there could exist a mistborn-style Knight Radiant).

[Brgst13]

There is another vision (I forget who it is) where they discuss someone holding a child and the world begging him to slit its throat.  I see these two together indicating that Odium will attempt to put a Radiant in the position of killing a child and turning their back on Honor or allowing the child to live, somehow dooming the world.

[Caevita he/him]

There is another vision (I forget who it is) where they discuss someone holding a child and the world begging him to slit its throat.  I see these two together indicating that Odium will attempt to put a Radiant in the position of killing a child and turning their back on Honor or allowing the child to live, somehow dooming the world.

That theory has already been brought up, but... I just don't see how Odium is the "night" unless we're talking about a straight-up, no survivors apocalypse.  Even aside from the fact that he seems more red and... angry than the silent finality of the night, the "Night-watcher" doesn't really seem to be positioned well to watch Odium (I don't pay all that much attention to maps, but I do know that the Nightwatcher is in the far east (the direction highstorms come from, called the "Origin," whereas everstorms come from the west).  That said, though, it's still a possibility.

[Caevita he/him]

Nightblood would be a perfect fit for a "Justice" shard if one exists. Maybe a reforged Devotion if it doesn't; the thing is nothing if not devoted to "destroying evil."

 

I, uh... don't think that's the kind of devotion Brandon had in mind.  Remember that devotion is the Shard paired with Dominion, and the debate on that world is which is the correct way to lead/follow.

[Brgst13]

That theory has already been brought up, but... I just don't see how Odium is the "night" unless we're talking about a straight-up, no survivors apocalypse.  Even aside from the fact that he seems more red and... angry than the silent finality of the night, the "Night-watcher" doesn't really seem to be positioned well to watch Odium (I don't pay all that much attention to maps, but I do know that the Nightwatcher is in the far east (the direction highstorms come from, called the "Origin," whereas everstorms come from the west).  That said, though, it's still a possibility.

This is exactly what the chapter 34 epigram suggests when it states "destroys all lands he beholds, with spite". Also chapter 22, "it's coming brings the gods their night" (describing the Everstorm).

[Caevita he/him]

This is exactly what the chapter 34 epigram suggests when it states "destroys all lands he beholds, with spite". Also chapter 22, "it's coming brings the gods their night" (describing the Everstorm).

 

I don't deny that Odium destroys stuff, but he tends to do it, like you said, with spite.  The night is more of a solemn, grim-reaper concept to me than the furious destruction of the (Ever)storm.

 

The other point, which has been brought up before, is a good one.  I do have to do a bit of clarification, though.  The "it" in "its coming brings the gods their night" refers to Stormform's coming, not the Everstorm.  That said, it could be argued that the Everstorm is what Stormform brings, so this may be a meaningless distinction.  Still, I suspect there is more going on than that.  As I said earlier, unless the "night" is just death (which might be accurate, but is really boring) the Everstorm and Odium don't seem like the night types.

[Brgst13]

I'm seeing the "night" brought by the Everstorm as being more the "night" of a total social collapse and destruction than simple darkness.  Also, if we examine the symbolism, the Knights Radiant show "light" tendencies, such as light eyes, a tendency to glow, etc.  The Heralds take this to even more heights.  Given that these are based off of Honor, it could be said that Honor is the shard of Light.  The Parshendi are red and black, and their gods (the Unmade?) can be seen to be aligned with darkness (the Black Fisher, the Midnight Mother, etc.).  Given that these are presumably spren of Odium, it could be seen that Odium is the shard of Darkness.  Given that the Everstorm will usher in the transformation of the Parshendi to at least 1 of the forms of their gods, this would presumably strengthen Odium's side and increase darkness (a metaphorical "night").

[Caevita he/him]

I'm seeing the "night" brought by the Everstorm as being more the "night" of a total social collapse and destruction than simple darkness.  Also, if we examine the symbolism, the Knights Radiant show "light" tendencies, such as light eyes, a tendency to glow, etc.  The Heralds take this to even more heights.  Given that these are based off of Honor, it could be said that Honor is the shard of Light.  The Parshendi are red and black, and their gods (the Unmade?) can be seen to be aligned with darkness (the Black Fisher, the Midnight Mother, etc.).  Given that these are presumably spren of Odium, it could be seen that Odium is the shard of Darkness.  Given that the Everstorm will usher in the transformation of the Parshendi to at least 1 of the forms of their gods, this would presumably strengthen Odium's side and increase darkness (a metaphorical "night").

 

Well said.  But... aren't the gods of the Parshendi spren?  Also, I didn't think that the Parshendi were naturally Odium's, any more than, say, the kandra were naturally Ruin's.

 

EDIT: there's also all kinds of things that glow in the Cosmere, including that one guy in Elantris who was most definitely not using Honor's power.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Caevita

[Jondesu he/him]

I'm seeing the "night" brought by the Everstorm as being more the "night" of a total social collapse and destruction than simple darkness.  Also, if we examine the symbolism, the Knights Radiant show "light" tendencies, such as light eyes, a tendency to glow, etc.  The Heralds take this to even more heights.  Given that these are based off of Honor, it could be said that Honor is the shard of Light.  The Parshendi are red and black, and their gods (the Unmade?) can be seen to be aligned with darkness (the Black Fisher, the Midnight Mother, etc.).  Given that these are presumably spren of Odium, it could be seen that Odium is the shard of Darkness.  Given that the Everstorm will usher in the transformation of the Parshendi to at least 1 of the forms of their gods, this would presumably strengthen Odium's side and increase darkness (a metaphorical "night").

I'm not sure I'd take that connection so far, though.  The Nightmother is generally believed to be Cultivation or at least aligned with her, and the simple fact that there are 3 Shards actively working on Roshar (well, sort of), means there isn't going to be a straight-up duality.

 

jW

[thegatorgirl00 she/her]

I'm not sure I'd take that connection so far, though.  The Nightmother is generally believed to be Cultivation or at least aligned with her, and the simple fact that there are 3 Shards actively working on Roshar (well, sort of), means there isn't going to be a straight-up duality.

 

jW

To me, the name Nightwatcher actually suggests that it isn't the night in the quote. Like the Nightwatchers job is to track Odium's influence in the world based on the boons people ask for and then report this back to Cultivation. Watching something usually involves not participating in it.

[Herdazian he/him]

Simple thought

It's coming brings the gods their night

What if it really is

Its coming brings the gods their Knight

[Bort he/him]

"so the night will reign, for the choice of honor is life."

 

I believe this is referring to Kaladin sacrificing Syl to survive his fall into the chasms.

 

Edit: Basically, darkness/evil will win because the person who has embodied Honour since the start of the books has chosen to be selfish instead of embracing his fate.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Bort

[natc]

Kaladin didn't even do anything intentionally there. Syl practically offed herself for letting him pull that much stormlight in with a wonky bond.

Edited November 18, 2015 by natc

[Charononus]

Just a couple thoughts here.

 

"It's coming brings the god's their night"

 

It is the everstorm.  It's going to bond every parshendi and parshman it hits.  It's going to destroy their true personalities and send them to a silence.  That sounds pretty doomy like others have mentioned.

 

"so the night will reign, for the choice of honor is life."

 

We know that the parshendi somehow dropped out of god form in the past to become parshendi as we know them.  They lost much accomplishing this but it did happen.  Perhaps it happened due to something Honor did.  The Parshendi had life instead of being puppets.  The quote may not be so much prophecy but lost history.