Essence Marks and Allomantic Gold

[Kadrok she/her]

There's not much else to this than what is in the title. I think Augur Mistings (or Mistborn who've trained in Allomantic Gold) would make fantastic Essence Marks, or at least make Essence Marks far more easily than normal. Let's discuss this!

[Claincy he/him]

Having seen been an alternate version of yourself could be very very useful in trying to create an essence mark for it. Especially as you will know how you turned out that way which is one of the key aspects for making the mark.

 

(When eventually we do a worldhopping campaign I will be tempted to play a character who does just that now. Or if I'm narrating I'll at least put one in )

Edited December 12, 2013 by lord Claincy Ffnord

[Aether he/him]

It might help, but it doesn't really tell you how you would have turned out differently. If anything, it only shows what could plausibly have happened, but that can be done logically as well. Plus, the alternative version of you that you see wouldn't necessarily be one for which you'd like to forge an essence mark.

[Claincy he/him]

It might help, but it doesn't really tell you how you would have turned out differently. If anything, it only shows what could plausibly have happened, but that can be done logically as well. Plus, the alternative version of you that you see wouldn't necessarily be one for which you'd like to forge an essence mark.

There is some speculation as to just how much you can learn from your gold shadow and how much you could potentially learn to control what gold shadow appears when you burn gold. The simple fact is that none of the characters in any of the books have really explored gold, most only ever burnt it once. Both Kad and I strongly suspect that you can get a lot more out of gold with practice, most people in-universe don't see the point and so never get to a point where it is particularly useful.

 

Edit: A further note that bugs me a bit. A lot of people describe gold as seeing an alternative version of yourself and, while this is technically true it is only a part of what is actually described wen Vin burns gold. She doesn't just *see* another version of herself, she simultaneously is both herself and another version of herself. This is a very important distinction.

Edited December 12, 2013 by lord Claincy Ffnord

[Aether he/him]

There is some speculation as to just how much you can learn from your gold shadow and how much you could potentially learn to control what gold shadow appears when you burn gold. The simple fact is that none of the characters in any of the books have really explored gold, most only ever burnt it once. Both Kad and I strongly suspect that you can get a lot more out of gold with practice, most people in-universe don't see the point and so never get to a point where it is particularly useful.

 

Edit: A further note that bugs me a bit. A lot of people describe gold as seeing an alternative version of yourself and, while this is technically true it is only a part of what is actually described wen Vin burns gold. She doesn't just *see* another version of herself, she simultaneously is both herself and another version of herself. This is a very important distinction.

You've got a good a good point. I hadn't thought of that.

 

EDIT: Woah! That edit does make all the difference. Because if they really feel like another version of themselves, then they'd probably be able to find out how they could have become that way. Now, if an Augur would be able to learn to control what they see...!!!

 

My only problem with it is that it still looks rather useless in and of itself. It would do wonders for rapidly training Forgers, but I'm not sure how it could be useful with Allomancy alone.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Aether

[Oudeis he/him]

(When eventually we do a worldhopping campaign I will be tempted to play a character who does just that now. Or if I'm narrating I'll at least put one in )

 

When I finally get around to writing that worldhopping fanfiction, I'll make a character like that and let you name him.

[Pechvarry]

Gold/copper twinborns. Not sure which book to read? Choose one, read and store, burn gold and find the version of you that chose the other book. Find the version of you that didn't dump all the memories into a coppermind while you're at it.

EDIT: this post was in response to the last line of Aether's post. Sorry for the apparent off-topic-ness.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Pechvarry

[Kurkistan he/him]

I think this theory has merit, Kads. Makromag had some very similar thoughts on Allomantic gold/Allomantic electrum awhile back.

[Scriptorian he/him]

On the flip side of the OP, an Augur who is unaware that the stamp is changing their personality (like Shai's "escape stamp" ), would get rather confused if they burned gold and saw how they would be without the stamp.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Serendipity

[Pechvarry]

Still useful. Beggar Shai with Allomantic gold spike could use "had I not used this stamp" shadows as a sort of beacon, maintaining skills and disguise without losing herself or her goal. Net effect of being able to withstand more traumatic stamps longer.

[Kadrok she/her]

(When eventually we do a worldhopping campaign I will be tempted to play a character who does just that now. Or if I'm narrating I'll at least put one in )

I'm so looking forward to that day... (I wonder if Crafty would increase their output if we threw more money at them...)

[Claincy he/him]

I'm so looking forward to that day... (I wonder if Crafty would increase their output if we threw more money at them...)

As am I. I get the feeling that we will end up writing the rules for ourselves though. I'm planning on writing some for stormlight archive sometime after WoR comes out. Depending on how much we learn in WoR it might need to wait for the next book though.

 

When I finally get around to writing that worldhopping fanfiction, I'll make a character like that and let you name him.

Why thankyou

 

You've got a good a good point. I hadn't thought of that.

 

EDIT: Woah! That edit does make all the difference. Because if they really feel like another version of themselves, then they'd probably be able to find out how they could have become that way. Now, if an Augur would be able to learn to control what they see...!!!

 

My only problem with it is that it still looks rather useless in and of itself. It would do wonders for rapidly training Forgers, but I'm not sure how it could be useful with Allomancy alone.

It is just a theory that you could do that kind of thing with gold, but I really hope it is correct. Gold is still, in and of itself not that useful if that was all it was capable of. However depending on how far the dual selves thing goes it could potentially have a huge number of applications.

 

Sorry that I'm not being specific here. In my MAG campaign Kad's character has the intention of exploring the possibilities of gold and I don't want to let all the cats out of the bag yet. Suffice to say that you appear to be simultaneously both and perhaps have access to the memories of both.

 

At any rate, it could still be pretty useful for trying to understand yourself and what you could have and maybe could still become. More of a personal introspection tool than an active power when used that way.

Edited December 12, 2013 by lord Claincy Ffnord

[Kurkistan he/him]

Don't feel too bad for Allomantic gold, Claincy. If I'm right (and when aren't I? ), Augors can also Compound Feruchemical gold with a willing Feruchemical accomplice. Not that Kad's character is ever going to figure that one out, I don't think.

[Kadrok she/her]

Sorry that I'm not being specific here. In my MAG campaign Kad's character has the intention of exploring the possibilities of gold and I don't want to let all the cats out of the bag yet. Suffice to say that you appear to be simultaneously both and perhaps have access to the memories of both.

I redid my plans for character development because I was bored, and I got up to Gold 6 with Golden Will and Hindsight within the first 100AP/20LB.

[Gamma Fiend he/him]

I seriously need to check out this MAG with some friends. Any tips on getting started?

[Claincy he/him]

I seriously need to check out this MAG with some friends. Any tips on getting started?

How experienced are you at role-playing? Because that would effect what advice I would give.

[Gamma Fiend he/him]

Not the most... exactly. Have quite a few friends who have done a lot of D&D before and I'd mostly be trying to play with them. One of them has read the first Mistborn Trilogy, too.

[Claincy he/him]

Ok then. If they are used to DnD the first piece of advice is to expect the MAG to be very very different.

 

Important things:

the rules

DnD has a very strong rules focus where the players are trying to "beat" the scenario that the gm created. Narrative generally takes a relative backseat. In the MAG narrative and characters are front and center. The rules are simple and often fairly in-specific, it is frequently up to the narrator to make a call about what happens. If you find yourself arguing about rules for long, make a quick compromise and move the focus back to the story.

 

the story/setting

Unlike in DnD and similar where the gm builds a mostly pre-determined story and adventure. One of the biggest strengths of the MAG is to give the players a ridiculous amount of power in the direction of the story. The players aren't playing through a story you designed, they are creating a story with you. You set up the general premise and situation and they need to decide how to deal with it. In an ideal situation (like with my online crew) the narrator adds elements to the story, or "prompts" and the players decide how to react to those prompts. For example:

 

"Another crew is planning a job to scam house Erikell for a large shipment of weapons." Does the crew:

-offer to join in on the job?

-tip off Erikell about the job for a quick payoff?

-wait for the job to go through then steal the weapons themselves?

-sabotage the job and take whatever remnants of the crew is left after the disaster into their own crew?

And many many more possibilities.

 

However, a lot of new players find this very difficult so it would probably be better to start off with a bit more direction. Perhaps a noble house hires the crew to do some specific job or similar. If the players get stuck at any point, don't be afraid to provide an idea or hint.

 

awesomeness

If a player comes up with an awesome idea, if it is even remotely possible to do so without completely wrecking your future secrets/challenges/plans, let them do so. Encourage them to do so. Allomancy and feruchemy and the loose systems of the MAG allow for a huge amount of creativity.

 

collaboration

I know I said this before but it needs emphasizing. This isn't the narrator against the players, if it feels that way something is wrong. You and the players are working together, you just have different tool-sets. Don't be afraid to let the players describe things or add elements to the story, several people can come up with a lot more interesting and varied things than one person. Be careful with this though, allowing them to add description etc is good but don't let them just add in a perfect solution to any problem Remember that you have the final say on anything and can confirm of deny anything as needed, just don't abuse the power.

 

It could, and likely will, take a bit of getting used to for you and your players. But once you are used to it, less narratively focused rpg's feel sort of shallow and unsatisfying in comparison

[Oudeis he/him]

Also make sure the characters understand that balance is not adhered to as strictly in this game as in others. Everyone will have more fun if you make your characters with a mind towards what would be fun and interesting, and less about "what will prolly win?" In DnD, almost everything is a dice roll. If you do nothing but roll dice in MAG, only the people who "min/maxed" their characters are going to enjoy it.

 

Maybe there can be quite a bit of crew downtime where everyone just sorta hangs out and it isn't a competition. Or maybe if someone made a character who is more interesting than overpowered, if he comes up with clever ideas the Narrator can give him easier rolls, while the guy who just maximized a character for combat will typically get a string of big scary bad guys.

 

Just a thought.

[Claincy he/him]

@Darnam,

 

A good point. <upvote, oooh, 200, congrats >

 

From a strict balance point of view the MAG is a long way off being well balanced. However a lot of aspects of it are very hard to give an unbiased comparison of. Regardless, each person in the crew should hopefully be performing a different role with different specialties, that helps.

 

Edit: The thread is now fairly derailed, sorry Kad.

Edited December 17, 2013 by lord Claincy Ffnord

[Gamma Fiend he/him]

Yeah... sorry for getting it a little derailed. But this is all good advice, and I really hope I can get some games going soon. It sounds like a lot of fun. I just want to mess around with allomancy and feruchemy. There's so much that can be done. Thanks again for the advice guys.

[Claincy he/him]

No worries. Always happy to help out anyone who is trying to set up a MAG game.

[Pechvarry]

/nothelping

I really want to get into a campaign with you guys, or anyone willing. I just don't like the system. I'm happy to support Crafty and would do so again, but I really hate character creation and prefer FATE as a "high rp" system (though it would need a character creation overhaul as well).

Sorry to fuel the derail, just didn't seem worth the thread.

[Claincy he/him]

@Pechvarry, sorry that this is a rather late reply.

 

I'm curious to hear your problems with the system? Have you had a chance to play it yet to see it in action?

I'm not trying to say the system doesn't have flaws, I am just genuinely curious as to what specifically you don't like.

 

I don't believe we have any spots open in any campaigns just now. But if you are interested I can send you a pm when we are next looking for players.

Edited December 19, 2013 by lord Claincy Ffnord

[Kadrok she/her]

-sabotage the job and take whatever remnants of the crew is left after the disaster into their own crew?

Awww man! Why didn't we think of that!

@Darnam,

 

A good point. <upvote, oooh, 200, congrats >

 

From a strict balance point of view the MAG is a long way off being well balanced. However a lot of aspects of it are very hard to give an unbiased comparison of. Regardless, each person in the crew should hopefully be performing a different role with different specialties, that helps.

Balance is boring (English translation at the bottom of the article).

 

Edit: The thread is now fairly derailed, sorry Kad.

I'm happy with the way the thread has gone.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Kadrok