Palindrome name inconsistencies

[israel8491 she/her]

So in Words of Radiance (can't give the direct quote or page number since I am moving and my copy is in a taped-up box), Sadeas says that he likes his wife Ialai's name because unlike most Rosharan names, which are palindromes except one letter off, her name is a perfect palindrome and therefore a bit arrogant. Similarly, Kabsal compliments Shallan on her name in Way of Kings because it's one sound off from a palindrome.

 

So why does Laral, Kaladin's childhood friend/almost-fiancee/it's complicated, have a perfect palindrome name? Or, for that matter, Rillir, Brightlord Roshone's ill-fated son who died of idiocy when he tried to kill a whitespine? 

 

Any ideas on the inconsistency? Perhaps giving your (light-eyed) kid a perfect palindrome name was less of a taboo in the countryside, but Rillir came from the capital city, where it would have been heavily frowned upon.

[DSC01 he/him]

Well, Ialai's parents can't be the only naughty ones in their society. As for Rillir, Roshone always was a crass dude. I'm not surprised he would commit a faux pas like that.

[natc]

Yeah. Not like there can only be one somewhat blasphemous family in the world. That's almost a statistical impossibility.

[mirahound she/her]

I've actually wondered about Laral, especially since her dad seemed like a pretty humble guy (friends with darkeyes and all that). I almost wonder if he doted on his daughter so much he really did think she deserved a "perfect" name. After all, we don't know much about her mother. It's possible he lost her during childbirth and gave his daughter a palindrome name to honor her? I dunno, I'm just spewing out ideas here, who can tell if they're any good?

[Blaze1616 he/him]

Also consider that Palindrome names are only holy for Vorinism, if I'm recalling correctly. Having a non-Vorin individual in the family could easily result in such names. And when light eyes are the only qualifier for being of noble-ish birth, it's not so hard to believe some non-Vorin joining Alethkar society.

[straits]

So in Words of Radiance (can't give the direct quote or page number since I am moving and my copy is in a taped-up box), Sadeas says that he likes his wife Ialai's name because unlike most Rosharan names, which are palindromes except one letter off, her name is a perfect palindrome and therefore a bit arrogant. Similarly, Kabsal compliments Shallan on her name in Way of Kings because it's one sound off from a palindrome.

 

So why does Laral, Kaladin's childhood friend/almost-fiancee/it's complicated, have a perfect palindrome name? Or, for that matter, Rillir, Brightlord Roshone's ill-fated son who died of idiocy when he tried to kill a whitespine? 

 

Any ideas on the inconsistency? Perhaps giving your (light-eyed) kid a perfect palindrome name was less of a taboo in the countryside, but Rillir came from the capital city, where it would have been heavily frowned upon.

 

 

If you look at the case Sanderson is making for Shallan's perfectly symmetrical alternative, Sh-alla-sh, you can notice that it is phonetically symmetrical but not syntactically symmetrical. Going by that logic Laral isn't phonetically symmetrical: La - ra - l. If it were La - ra - la you'd have a central sound with two identical sounds to either side. Since the Alethi use glyphs you can assume they don't think in single letters. Think Arabic or Hebrew letter "sounds". Or many other real languages.

[aeromancer he/him]

If you look at the case Sanderson is making for Shallan's perfectly symmetrical alternative, Sh-alla-sh, you can notice that it is phonetically symmetrical but not syntactically symmetrical. Going by that logic Laral isn't phonetically symmetrical: La - ra - l. If it were La - ra - la you'd have a central sound with two identical sounds to either side. Since the Alethi use glyphs you can assume they don't think in single letters. Think Arabic or Hebrew letter "sounds". Or many other real languages.

 

So by your argument, Ialai name isn't phonetically symmetrical, either. A simpler explanation might be that different Devotaries have different rules. 

 

Also, Shallash is actually syntactically symmetrical using the Rosharian alphabet.

[Blaze1616 he/him]

I think you guys are incorrectly defining a palindrome as symmetrical either phoenetically or syntactically.

 

Palindrome according to Marriam-Webster: a word, phrase, or number that reads the same backward or forward

 

So Laral works. Ialai works. Shallash works. Talenelat works. Jezerezeh works based on the odd rule of 'h' being the Ditto of the Rosharan alphabet.

[straits]

So by your argument, Ialai name isn't phonetically symmetrical, either. A simpler explanation might be that different Devotaries have different rules. 

 

Also, Shallash is actually syntactically symmetrical using the Rosharian alphabet.

 

 

You're right, I was referring to our real world English syntax. It's probably perfectly symmetrical in their alphabet.

 

I think different rules are necessary for Shallash and Ialai to be accepted as symmetrical. They can't be symmetrical in the exact same system. So it could really be down to the devotaries.

 

 

I think you guys are incorrectly defining a palindrome as symmetrical either phoenetically or syntactically.

 

Palindrome according to Marriam-Webster: a word, phrase, or number that reads the same backward or forward

 

So Laral works. Ialai works. Shallash works. Talenelat works. Jezerezeh works based on the odd rule of 'h' being the Ditto of the Rosharan alphabet.

 

In line with what aeromancer was saying, I think Roshar would have its own views on what constitutes a palindrome, so Marriam-Webster can only be a rough guideline. I think some real world languages cannot be read back and forth as easily as English, anyways.

[Blaze1616 he/him]

In line with what aeromancer was saying, I think Roshar would have its own views on what constitutes a palindrome, so Marriam-Webster can only be a rough guideline. I think some real world languages cannot be read back and forth as easily as English, anyways.

 

My point was you guys are acting like Shallash and Ialai don't both work, but they do.

 

Sh-ah-ll-ah-sh

Ee-ah-l-ah-ee

 

I'm not understanding why you don't think they both fit under the same rules. A Palindrome is a palindrome. It's a single word with a single definition. They all fit, because they all fit within that single definition.

[straits]

My point was you guys are acting like Shallash and Ialai don't both work, but they do.

 

Sh-ah-ll-ah-sh

Ee-ah-l-ah-ee

 

I'm not understanding why you don't think they both fit under the same rules. A Palindrome is a palindrome. It's a single word with a single definition. They all fit, because they all fit within that single definition.

 

For some reason I thought "ia" is a single sound/glyph that would have to be read as "ia" whenever it appears. So to me Ialai would be symmetrical if it were ia - la - ia and not ia - la - i. Your answer makes sense though.

[Cadmium he/him]

My point was you guys are acting like Shallash and Ialai don't both work, but they do.

 

Ee-ah-l-ah-ee

I'm realizing that the audiobook may have colored my perception/pronunciation of this name (Ee-ah-l-ai) and I didn't even catch the significance until now.  If nothing else comes of the discussion, thanks for fixing that in my head!

[Alfa he/him]

Roshone (Rillirs father) is at least friend of a "Son of Honor". I am not sure to what amount the religious Ideas of the Sons are different from standard Vorin ones, but symmetrical names could be signs of leaders or something like that among them; so they started to call their children with symmetrical names.

 

As for Laral: I like the theory above, that her father thought she deserved a "holy" name for some reason. It's also possible, that their were some difficulties with the church and he named her with a Palindrome as a political statement (Like:"I decide what I do, not the church").