The Set and Hemalurgy

[Oudeis he/him]

I suspect that Lord Edwarn Ladrian is a Hemalurgist.

 

Wax finds his trunk with his mistcloak and Sterrions in the Vanisher hideout, and Harmony says, "You're welcome," implying he had a had in having them brought here.

 

Miles comments at one point that "Mr. Suit" whom we know is Edwarn ordered the trunks, and some other things, stolen from Ladrian mansion. Ostensibly, to use to kill or possibly frame Wax.

 

Obviously, with both Powers working together rather than opposing each other, Harmony could have brought this about any number of ways. Still. I wonder if Edwarn is already a hemalurgist, and if Harmony thereby subtly influenced him in order to bring the Sterrions where he knew Wax would need them?

[tobar14 he/him]

I suspect that Lord Edwarn Ladrian is a Hemalurgist.

 

Nice catch.

 

Let's suppose that you are correct in that Edwarn is a hemalurgist.

 

Do you think he has a hemalurgic spike similar to Wax's? (An earring that has a negligible charge)

Or

Do you think he has a hemalurgic spike with a significant charge, granting him some power we (readers and in story characters) have yet to realize?

 

If one of those options turns out to be true, they both have some implications. 

 

Let's say that option 1 is true.  (Possible, but unlikely in my opinion)

Has anyone ever seen Edwarn wear an earring?  

Also, while writing this I am realizing that it would be pretty lucky on Harmony's/Wax's part that Edwarn was wearing the earring while making the decision to have the trunks ordered.

 

Now, Let's say that option 2 is true.

Is he aware that he is spiked/being influenced?

If he always has a spike in, then Harmony can hear and talk to him. (I am unsure of how much Harmony can do now that 300 years have passed and he/it is being more influenced into "harmony"/inaction (the balance between growth/decay ruin/preservation)).

 

I am at work right now so I don't have as much time as I would like to put thought towards this.  What do you think?

[Oudeis he/him]

Well, my first thought as soon as I noticed that line (this time around) was our talk about why they might want women of allomantic power... One suggestion has been that they want children with metallic traits, which could be hemalurgically stolen and granted to the members of the Set. This theory only works if the Set does already know for sure how to perform at least some hemalurgy. If so, maybe he has given himself some power.

 

As for which power he might have... I expect for someone like Edwarn, he'd prefer one of the mental powers. Allomantic Zinc or Brass could help him in his dealings. Now I want to go over every time Miles interacts with him and look for clues; is Miles acting Soothed? Feruchemical Copper could be helpful, though Suit's use of a notebook suggests imperfect memory (unless it's a cover?).

 

Hrm. Allomantic bronze. That could possibly solve another question I've had... although, not really. I've been wondering why on Scadrial the Set would bother learning Marasi's true heritage. If they knew she was an allomancer, it might perk their interest. Yet... when would they possibly have noticed her use of her power? It's not something she uses very often, or something that can be terribly subtle. If she's at a boring opera she can hardly skip past the third, fourth, and fifth acts without taking a dozen people in the seats all around with her. And there's not a ton of point in practicing in private. "Steris, I'll be practicing my allomancy in the garden. I'll be a few hours." Okay, Marasi, see you in five minutes."

 

So maybe that's not the answer. Still. It could help find hidden allomantic women, or even just random metalborn on the street to kidnap and spike (in my fanfiction set in the future where hemalurgy becomes a big deal, Seekers are a HUGE deal for both sides).

 

Allomantic pewter? Miles makes note that Mr. Suit walks steadily despite his age, with no cane. Edwarn has already gotten this far on his native wit and charm; rather than get an ability that will increase this only marginally, he chose one to shore up a weakness; his physicality. Plus, he's a man easily dismissed in a fight. Wouldn't Wax be surprised if he ever does shoot his uncle, turns his back... and discovers his uncle can now shrug off a bullet wound?

 

Pewter feruchemy would be obvious... Tin has its uses, either Art. Feruchemical gold?

 

As for how much Preservation can influence him... recall that even Zane, who had a spike for years and was also crazy, was under marginal Ruinous control. He almost killed Vin, which we know is directly against what Ruin wanted at the time (though admittedly, Ruin at the time was mostly bound). I expect given how Harmony tries to leave people to their own devices, he might be able to spy on them via Preservation's mind-reading, but he'd leave the actual influencing to a minimum. That's just one man's opinion, though. I really don't have much factual to back that up.

 

About to leave the office and head home but I might post more thoughts later. Anyone else?

[WindrunnerRadiant he/him]

I think it is fully possible that Edwarn is spiked. (From what we know) he seems that type of man that is willing to make high risk/high reward investments and he holds his personal safety very high. He is also very careful though. I think the biggest issue is that not very much is known about Hemalurgy and for it to work right, the spike placement is very exact. He wouldn't risk it if he wasn't fairly certain that he would get what he wanted out if it.

 

I also agree that Harmony wouldn't want to influence people against their will. Both who he was before and the nature of being Harmony would suggest that he couldn't, in fact, bring himself to, though that isn't a fact, just observation. Oh, Marsh also mentions that Harmonies beliefs require that he allows people their own opinions (and most likely free will)

 

Still, it does make sense for Edwarn to be spiked, and definitely something less obvious. Also there is a good possibility that he is an Allomancer, as it seems to me from what the Set seems to be planning that it could be required as a member (as far as the breeding goes). However, as for how Wax's box ended up where he needed it, it seems more likely that Harmony might have asked Marsh or even one of the kandra to place it instead (I think a kandra is most likely). 

 

As for the idea of kidnapping women with allomantic abilities for children for use in Hemalurgy, it has been suggested that they are trying to recreate a Mistborn. Even more frightening, what if they are aiming to make a person with TLR's Misborn/Feruchemy combination?

Edited September 11, 2015 by WindrunnerRadiant

[Oudeis he/him]

From Miles's point of view, he sees the boxes from Ladrian Manor had been brought to the hideout specifically on Suit's order; I suppose it's possible that a kandra somehow gave that order, or took over a Vanisher and pretended to have gotten the order, or snuck it and added it. My "Edwarn is spiked" theory is, of course, entirely speculation. That said, given we know from the book that Edwarn expressly had boxes brought to the hideout from Ladrian Manor, I'm not certain I at all agree that it's more likely a kandra did it, instead. Especially since one of the reasons given is, "to frame Wax." What better way to frame him than with his own weapons? For that matter, why bother with a Kandra? He has the power to move planets in their orbits. Surely if he wanted, he could simply teleport the box where he needs it.

 

It's possible they're trying to breed a Mistborn, or a Feruchemistborn. This possibility has been raised in other threads. While it's totally apropos to mention it as a viable alternative to the theory under discussion, there are other threads to talk about it in, and I would like to politely request that any further points on that theory be brought up where it would be more appropriate. Suffice to say it is accepted that it's an entirely viable alternate theory which might well invalidate much of this line of reasoning.

 

You also bring up an excellent point; Suit could have been metalborn, even twinborn. With just two spikes, he could be a double compounder.

 

As for Harmony's influence... saying "unable" is, I think, a harsh assumption. The conflicting Intents of Preservation and Ruin don't specifically tell him, I don't think, "don't ever do anything;" if nothing else, we know he was helping Wax, so clearly he does SOMETHING. And even at that, there's a WoB that some Shards, which have held their Intents for millenia, are still holding off the compulsion; I hardly think after a mere 300 years Sazed will be utterly enthralled.

 

I do think you're right, that he'd keep any and all influence to a minimum. However, if someone is wondering what to do with some boxes, and Harmony can think of a place to put the boxes that might help stop some bad guys, I think it might be within him to subtly lead the man to a certain conclusion. If Edwarn had thought about it and realized the Vanisher's hideout was an awful place, I doubt Sazed would have stormed in and forcibly changed his mind.

[ParadoxicalZen he/him]

Another idea could be to perhaps breed/create a Mistborn or Feruchemist and  spike the other Metallic Art's abilities into them, and then for another plot twist... breed a Fullborn (man that child will be messed up)

Edited September 12, 2015 by ParadoxSpren

[WindrunnerRadiant he/him]

I had forgotten the part where Miles ordered the box (been a while since I read AoL, oops).

 

As for the breeding, I wasn't talking about that theory at all. Rather, I was suggesting that they were perhaps trying to create a supply of people for use in Hemalurgy, making a construct such as Marsh with the Fullborn powers and that perhaps Edwarn was part of that process, an earlier experiment or someone in the process of becoming. I apologize for not being more clear on that.

 

Harmony's influence... I never used the word unable. I wouldn't either. I said that Sazed couldn't because of his convictions and his nature as Harmony. It may seem like less of an issue because it isn't a major influence, but it is just as much manipulating people into the path that you want as forcing them, or at least what we see of Sazed in the first trilogy is the kind of man who would see it this way (in my opinion).

 

Also, from what Marsh says at the end of AoL, it seems that Harmony asks him to do stuff. Not 'plants little idea when wondering what to do next,' just asks. And allows him to disagree. We don't even see him influencing Wax unless Wax asks for advice or perhaps you could say guidance. On the other hand, these are people that Harmony (and us readers) seems to think are morally in the right. So, perhaps Harmony might make a little unasked suggestion to someone who Harmony sees as morally corrupt.