Dalinar the Surgebinder

[marianmi]

Yes, that's how I interpreted the scene as well... further proof that Elhokar is a surgebinder...

[Argent]

Hmm. Possible. But from the little we know about Shallan's experience in Shadesmar, it looks like her Soulcasting is kind of on demand. She didn't seem to need to inhale or otherwise "consume" the Stormlight until she was already in Shadesmar, and even there the light drained from her after she "convinced" one of the sphere-entities (spren, probably) there to change. For reference:

 

“I don’t know what you mean! Please, help me!”

I will change.

She felt suddenly cold, as if the warmth were being drawn from her. She screamed as the bead in her fingers flared to sudden warmth. She dropped it just as a shift in the ocean swell towed her under, beads rolling over one another with a soft clatter.

She fell back and hit her bed, back in her room. Beside her, the goblet on her nightstand  melted, the glass becoming red liquid, dropping the three spheres inside to the nightstand’s flooded top. The red liquid poured over the sides of the nightstand, splashing to the floor. Shallan pulled back, horrified.

The goblet had been changed into blood

 

[marianmi]

The stormlight is used to GO to shadesmar...

But Elhokar could have used another surge, not soulcasting...

[Gloom]

Actually, it's not being missed. It was discussed in another thread and this is an alternate theory laid out in an attempt to bolster the idea that Dalinar is in the early stages of a Nahel Bond. I personally think that if Dalinar was going to be draining Stormlight from someones Shardlpate, it would have been his own. I don't see how it could have been easier to drain the Stormlight from another Shardbearers plate than the Plate he was wearing regardless of the fact that Elholars Plate was leaking Stormlight.

[Argent]

The stormlight is used to GO to shadesmar...

 

Is it? Her entering into Shadesmar is not described at all - in fact I think it's more like looking into Shadesmar, not entering it. The Cryptic asks "What are you?," Shallan responds with "I'm terrified," to which the Cryptic says "This is true" and voala! - the room turns to glass beads. It's like she is looking at potential "targets" to Soulcast. And only just before she "returns" to her bedroom, just before the goblet turns into blood, only then does she feel "suddenly cold, as if the warmth were being drawn from her."

[marianmi]

Jasnah told her that only a crazy person would go to shadesmar with only a half-dim gem... or something like that...

[Argent]

That's still in line with my idea - you need the Stormlight to leave Shadesmar (though note that we are talking about mental entering and leaving, not physical - Jasnah never left Roshar when Soulcasting). If Shallan hadn't made anything change (either because she refused to, or because she didn't have the currency - Stormlight - to make it so), she would've been stuck there.

[deddinty]

I wonder if it isn't a combination though.  Looking into Shadesmar or traveling to it may require some sort of stormlight, like a very low continuous drain, which is used not to just look into it but also to give one power there, thus Jasnah's comment.  The soulcasting requires a great deal more stormlight used quickly, which results in the cold feeling.  So she needs the stormlight to access, exist in/look in, and exit shadesmar, but the soulcasting required the majority of the stormlight.

 

If I wanted to compare it to Kaladin, her looking into shadesmar is like the stormlight he consumes that makes him stronger/faster as opposed to the stormlight he uses for the actual lashings.  He can consume it all at once or have access to it's power for several minutes, but it's still being slowly consumed. 

[Argent]

This is more possible, though the particular scene doesn't suggest so.

[dionysus]

I think people are missing the extremely obvious explanation here - Elhokar himself drained his own gemstones. We know he's seeing Cryptics, after all, and given Shallan's experience with them, they're not ones to explain themselves or give a lecture on the theory of using Investiture, Wyndle-style. I took that scene as a second hint that he's going to be a Surgebinder (the first being his reference to seeing the Cryptics in mirrors). Do I know what he did with that Stormlight? No clue. But it's quite possible he did nothing productive, just held it for a few minutes until it leaked out. 

 

I like this theory. For one, seeing as Elhokar actually sees what is likely his bond spren and Dalinar does not, the implication is that Elhokar is farther along than Dalinar in becoming a surgebinder. Kaladin sees Syl long before he starts manifesting serious powers (though it is likely his amazing martial prowess partly came from Syl even back before he was made a slave.)

 

Long shot but it might also explain Dalinar's super human strength. Is there an order of KRs that might grant others increased strength and toughness? Thinking about this I find it doubtful though because Dalinar's shardplate should prevent others from empowering him.

[Argent]

The strength is pretty much what we've been using to try to guess Dalinar's order. 

[Gloom]

I believe that Dalinar described Elhokar as dazed. Elhokar may have been staring at a sea of glass beads thinking he was going nuts, but he didn't appear to be aware of what was going on in the real world at the time Dalinar may have glowed, or perhaps reflected the light in such a way as that he appeared to glow.

[Argent]

Or he could've been dazed because a stupidly large chasmfiend just slapped him silly...

[Gloom]

Or that, That would be the obvious reason.

[Daishi5]

I believe that Dalinar described Elhokar as dazed. Elhokar may have been staring at a sea of glass beads thinking he was going nuts, but he didn't appear to be aware of what was going on in the real world at the time Dalinar may have glowed, or perhaps reflected the light in such a way as that he appeared to glow.

In my latest reread, I noticed that Szeth specifically said he couldn't wear shardplate because his lashings would interfere with the gemstones in the plate, that combined with the broken gemstones in Elhokar's plate led me to go over the chasmfiend scene several times.  I am trying to see if there is anything that might have been Elhokar surgebinding in some form, but I am not seeing it.  

 

Maybe he did try something on the chasmfiend and it just plain failed.  

[Meg]

@Shallan and Stormlight:

 

I've read those scenes in TWoK as two different "actions". The one is her visiting (or peeking into) Shadesmar (Stormlight is needed for not getting lost there), and the other is her Soulcasting (Stormlight is needed for the transformation).

[Moogle]

I am trying to see if there is anything that might have been Elhokar surgebinding in some form, but I am not seeing it.  

 

Maybe he did try something on the chasmfiend and it just plain failed.  

 

Why would he have had to Surgebind? It seems more likely to me that he would have just drawn on the Stormlight for the added combat boost as instinctive fear response. Kaladin does it on his bridge runs, though that might very well be more about the heavy breathing. I'm not sure how non-Windrunners infuse themselves.

Edited October 29, 2013 by Moogle