The Emperor's possible powers

[Jaaaaaade]

Hello, Jade here. First post, I'm in Australia and I've read up to and including Alloy of Law. I'm saving up for the adventure game book, and I was thinking through a bunch of (ridiculous) scenarios possible in the physical laws of Scadrial.

 

I'm going on the notion that steelpushing and ironpulling are based of relative weight here. Say a human weighs a thousand coins, a random guess, that is why they are so easily pushed and pulled around. Although Vin was gifted, she wouldn't have been able to push away something really heavy. If there was a being that weighed a thousand times as much as a human, the ratio is the same, and so you can push and pull on their armour or anything attached to them, and fling them around like a coin.

 

The Emperor lived a thousand years by Compounding his health and his age. What if he had spent a thousand years storing up a vast ironmind? Maybe even the walls of Kredik Shaw itself (was it made of iron?). Storing up so much of his weight that he has to tie himself down so he doesn't blow away with slight changes in air pressure.

Fast-forward a thousand years, he's got a ridiculous store of weight. Hypothetically, if there was a riot, an attempted uprising coming from one direction, he could walk around it until Kredik Shaw was in between him, touch it with his hands and tap it all at once, and in that moment simply steelpush against it. He wouldn't even need duraluminum yet, which we're pretty sure he didn't know about (right?). Hypothetically, it could fly like a coin. Although he would need to have stored a proportional amount of strength, so his bones don't crush themselves into dust. It would be the ultimate demonstration of godhood, he could convince the survivors to commence work on rebuilding his castle, just to rub it in and be the ultimate prick. I would have had way too much fun being the Emperor.

 

Also, imagine if he knew about the rest of the metals. Does burning cadmium and bendalloy affect the storing of feruchemy? Say you slowed down time for yourself in a bubble, every spare moment you had, all the while storing attributes in metalminds. Would this mean you could store more in a shorter amount of time, from the perspective of the world outside the bubble? If you flared it, you could fill metalminds to the brim in an instant, making it effectively end-positive.This could be extremely useful for twinborns in the time of Alloy of Law. Imagine the Emperor doing this. He would have been driven mad, a thousand years stretched out for even longer. Unless he used an equally huge metalmind of zinc.

This is all just speculation, but it does go show what this magic system could possibly do.

[Kurkistan he/him]

Hello, Jade here. First post, I'm in Australia and I've read up to and including Alloy of Law. I'm saving up for the adventure game book, and I was thinking through a bunch of (ridiculous) scenarios possible in the physical laws of Scadrial.

 

I'm going on the notion that steelpushing and ironpulling are based of relative weight here. Say a human weighs a thousand coins, a random guess, that is why they are so easily pushed and pulled around. Although Vin was gifted, she wouldn't have been able to push away something really heavy. If there was a being that weighed a thousand times as much as a human, the ratio is the same, and so you can push and pull on their armour or anything attached to them, and fling them around like a coin.

 

We've had some fairly intense debates on the topic, but I think it's been settled (someone yell at me if I'm wrong, it's been a while) that weight affects both how much raw power you can output and, as you say, who gets thrown around at the end of the day.

 

When Vin pushes a coin with 1 Newton of Force, she is pushed back as well. It's just that the coin is much less massive. At no point do you have an Allomancer simply "not moving": instead, the force exerted on them is simply minimal. So yes, an elephant will be able to Push and Pull a man in armor around without budging more than half an inch.

 

Now as to how the elephant gets that much power, that's down (IIRC) to both Allomantic strength and the actual weight of the Allomancer. They're essentially "throwing their weight around", so a Vin who wasn't uber-awesome would be able to throw around fundamentally less power than an equally powerful Allomancer who's weight went into the hundreds. Put each of them up against a wall and have a "coin race" and weak!Vin's would be slower.

 

Thus, increasing your weight (via eating or Feruchemy), besides making you more immovable, also has the effect of increasing the amount of brute power available to Iron and Steel Allomancy.

 

 

The Emperor lived a thousand years by Compounding his health and his age. What if he had spent a thousand years storing up a vast ironmind? Maybe even the walls of Kredik Shaw itself (was it made of iron?). Storing up so much of his weight that he has to tie himself down so he doesn't blow away with slight changes in air pressure.

Fast-forward a thousand years, he's got a ridiculous store of weight. Hypothetically, if there was a riot, an attempted uprising coming from one direction, he could walk around it until Kredik Shaw was in between him, touch it with his hands and tap it all at once, and in that moment simply steelpush against it. He wouldn't even need duraluminum yet, which we're pretty sure he didn't know about (right?). Hypothetically, it could fly like a coin. Although he would need to have stored a proportional amount of strength, so his bones don't crush themselves into dust. It would be the ultimate demonstration of godhood, he could convince the survivors to commence work on rebuilding his castle, just to rub it in and be the ultimate prick. I would have had way too much fun being the Emperor.

 

He wouldn't need quite much preparation: Recall that TLR can compound every metal. A few hours or days of compounding Iron would do it. He also wouldn't have needed to tap strength, since all Feruchemy protects its user from the direct effects of tapping: brass ferrings don't burn to death and iron ferrings aren't crushed under their own weight.

 

You might have an issue with breaking the Earth's crust, though. . .

-There's a quote on this, though I can't find it just now.

 

Also, imagine if he knew about the rest of the metals. Does burning cadmium and bendalloy affect the storing of feruchemy? Say you slowed down time for yourself in a bubble, every spare moment you had, all the while storing attributes in metalminds. Would this mean you could store more in a shorter amount of time, from the perspective of the world outside the bubble? If you flared it, you could fill metalminds to the brim in an instant, making it effectively end-positive.This could be extremely useful for twinborns in the time of Alloy of Law. Imagine the Emperor doing this. He would have been driven mad, a thousand years stretched out for even longer. Unless he used an equally huge metalmind of zinc.

This is all just speculation, but it does go show what this magic system could possibly do.

 

I'm having the hardest times finding quotes today, but, in general, you can rest easy with the knowledge that "there are A LOT of things that [TLR] knew that aren’t known to a lot of people."

 

I would hazard that Bendalloy and Cadmium do allow for "faster" and "slower" feruchemical storage, but, again, your ideas, while interesting, aren't really necessary for TLR in particular, or any Compounder. Compounding a metal makes it end-positive, and is power-generating and fast enough that you don't really need to set aside a few days in an extra-dimensional bubble to do it properly.

 

Overall, your thoughts on TLR are interesting, but in the specific context of the MAG, I would caution you a bit: so far as I know, conventional wisdom says that if TLR actually tries to kill or capture you, you die or end up in chains. A thousand year old, expert-savant-Lerasium-Twinawesome--especially in a world that doesn't know anything about compounding and probably doesn't know anything about feruchemy either--is simply impossible to overcome.

 

EDIT: Welcome to the forums, by the way!

Edited June 11, 2013 by Kurkistan

[DocHoliday he/him]

Up vote for last line Kurkistan

You forgo Sliver though

[Claincy he/him]

As a quick note: the lord ruler is probably not a savant. We have been arguing back and forwards whether mistborn can become savants on the craft forums as the rules for the MAG actually state they can't. As a quick summary, WoB is that the lord ruler was "Near savant in every metal". Which implies that he wasn't actually a savant in anything. Because of all this for the time being my theory is that being a savant results in changes to your sDNA that cannot happen if your sDNA is cued to mistborn.

 

More details on the discussion (and other lerasium discussion) here:

http://www.crafty-games.com/forum/index.php?topic=7467.0

 

I personally have wondered for some time about his allomantic strength. He could get the powerful steel/iron easily through tapping weight. But things like his enormously powerful soothing are harder to account for, even given he was initially powerful and has spent 1000 years practicing.

 

It was confirmed in at least one place (can't find the quote sorry) that the lord ruler also benefits from heamalurgy, in fact that the bracers that pierced his upper arms were haemalurgic spikes (the pair that vin ripped off). Unfortunately we can't really tell anything about what they were as spikes as at least one of them, but probably both were atium as he was using one or again, more likely both, as atium storages. Brandon has said that "he used haemalurgy to pull of his most dramatic effects".

 

Hmm, yeah there was a quote about breaking the Earth's crust. Though did it say that you would need mor eiron than there probably was on Scadrial to do so or something similar?

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Hmm, yeah there was a quote about breaking the Earth's crust. Though did it say that you would need mor eiron than there probably was on Scadrial to do so or something similar?

"Brandon asked me to ask you about this - can an iron compounder become so dense so as to slow down time because of gravity"

"Right now I'm thinking there is not enough accessible iron on the planet."

 

I'm guessing TLR is 'near-savant' because either he doesn't want to damage himself, or his compounded health automatically heals away savant damage - like how you can heal shardblade wounds with feruchemical gold. 

[DocHoliday he/him]

I don't where everyone pulls these quotes from ,17 th shard link somewhere I'm sure, but I could SWEAR WoB was TLR  used Compounding to produce his most dramatic effects. I've also read somewhere that he used REVERSE Compounding of some sort to power his his Allowmancy. Which I assume allowed for his mass Soothing

 Brandon has said that "he used haemalurgy to pull of his most dramatic effects"

[Claincy he/him]

I don't where everyone pulls these quotes from ,17 th shard link somewhere I'm sure, but I could SWEAR WoB was TLR  used Compounding to produce his most dramatic effects. I've also read somewhere that he used REVERSE Compounding of some sort to power his his Allowmancy. Which I assume allowed for his mass Soothing

Found it!

http://www.theoryland.com/intvsresults.php?kwt=%27hemalurgy%27

number 26.

 

Not certain how everyone works it. Pretty sure Phantom has a coppermind

Personally I just remember facts from the many Q&A's of his I've read and try to remember the wording and google it to find the quote.

 

 

"Brandon asked me to ask you about this - can an iron compounder become so dense so as to slow down time because of gravity"

"Right now I'm thinking there is not enough accessible iron on the planet."

 

I'm guessing TLR is 'near-savant' because either he doesn't want to damage himself, or his compounded health automatically heals away savant damage - like how you can heal shardblade wounds with feruchemical gold. 

 

Hmm, true, it would probably be impossible for anyone tapping substantial amounts of gold to become a savant.

Honestly, it felt kinda weird to me that mistborn couldn't become savants in the MAG. The reply from the crafty guys in that forum was helpful about a number of things but still left it unclear if balance was the only reason that rule existed or if it was a canon thing.

Edited July 3, 2013 by lord_Ffnord

[Kurkistan he/him]

Found it!

http://www.theoryland.com/intvsresults.php?kwt='hemalurgy'

number 26.

 

Just for future reference, the best way to quote Theoryland stuff is to to click on the interview link ("Hero of Ages Q&A - TWG", in this case), then find the question again (38), then add "#<number>" (with <number> being 38 in this case) to the url. That'll link directly to that question for the foreseeable future, whereas alterations to what the "hemalurgy" tag links to could mess up your own reference.

Final Result: http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=727#38

[Phantom Monstrosity]

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/1729-a-late-breaking-report/
I continued to ask about the Lord Ruler and his Allomantic strength. There's an upper bound to the amount of power you can get from being a savant. Brandon said that, obviously, the Lord Ruler wasn't using duralumin and Elend could only get that powerful in Soothing using duralumin. He implied that there was a way to Compound to enhance Allomancy. (Note, we have discussed this on the forums a while back. This isn't news.)

http://www.brandonsanderson.com/annotation/174/mistborn-Chapter-Thirty-Eight-Part-Two

Marsh's plan to kill the Lord Ruler is a good one too. Unfortunately, the Lord Ruler's power doesn't come only from Hemalurgy, but from other things as well. If he'd pulled off the bracelets instead. . . .

 

Yeah, reverse-compounding was involved apparently, along with normal compounding...

[Claincy he/him]

 

Just for future reference, the best way to quote Theoryland stuff is to to click on the interview link ("Hero of Ages Q&A - TWG", in this case), then find the question again (38), then add "#<number>" (with <number> being 38 in this case) to the url. That'll link directly to that question for the foreseeable future, whereas alterations to what the "hemalurgy" tag links to could mess up your own reference.

Final Result: http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=727#38

Ah right. Thanks for that =)

[DocHoliday he/him]

I didn't read anything from the link that contradicts my statement, so I am correct? Reverse-compounding is responsible for the TLR's Soothing, and such? After all a 10x return on your Feruchemichal investment would make this particularly easy IF you know the trick to it.

 

On aside THANK YOU Kurkistan and Phantom for attempting to educate the non computer literate. Promise I'll try to work this stuff when I'm not on a tablet.

[11thorderknight]

Not sure what "reverse compounding" would be, but my take on it is this - you vastly increase your Feruchemy by fueling it with Allomancy (via compounding). How do you vastly increase your Allomancy, then? Simple - you fuel it with Feruchemy. But what metalmind lets you do that, you ask? Nicrosil, the one that stores Investiture. You simply burn a metal and store the "magic" in a Nicrosilmind, rather than using it at the time. Then, when you want to Soothe the entire city of Luthadel, you tap that Nicrosilmind and put out a ginormous Soothing. 

[DocHoliday he/him]

Reverse Compounding is similar to Compounding. In Compounding you Fill you're metal then burn the metal and receive a 10x burst. TLR knew a method where he could take the return from Compounding and fuel his Allowmancy with it. 

 

I like the Nicrosil idea, but we just don't know enough about Nicrosil Investiture yet for me to get behind it. Up vote though