Importance of Symmetry?

[Kiwi]

I've recently been seeing the word "symmetry" a lot when I read other topics in the Stormlight Archive forums.  It's the basis of Keteks and a lot of names, there's a symmetry to the difference between Surges and Voidbindings, and when speaking of the "champions" of Honor and Odium symmetry comes to mind (Equal on both sides).

 

So I guess what I'm asking is, could symmetry play a part in the magic system, kind of like metal on Scadrial?  Could writing Keteks and forming symmetrical names be a way to hide written words from the Shards?  Or is symmetry too general a term?

[Isomere]

I think you are onto something here Kiwi. My theory is that waveforms are the Focus on Roshar (similar to metal on Scadrial) , and standing waves have perfect symmetry. 

[happyman he/him]

The dawn-cities shapes apparently represent some of those symmetries, if they can really be produced by sound!

[Govika he/him]

The dawn-cities shapes apparently represent some of those symmetries, if they can really be produced by sound!

I think the symmetry can be produced by sounds since there are "Dawnsingers." I suspect they use some of the same sounds Kabsal shows Shallan, but with more sounds of course.

[blackmagic3 he/him]

Did anyone else notice that the Ketek at the end of the book roughly corresponds with each part of The Way of Kings, part 1 is called Above Silence and so forth?

[Kiwi]

I think the symmetry can be produced by sounds since there are "Dawnsingers." I suspect they use some of the same sounds Kabsal shows Shallan, but with more sounds of course.

 

"Rhythm" and "Cadence" is mentioned a lot as well.  Shallan says she falls into a trance, a rhythm with a cadence, when drawing from her Memory.  Also, when speaking of the Thrill, I believe it is described as falling into a rhythm.  These are two things that have been theorized to be in connection with one of the Shard's magic systems.

 

A lot of things in Music can be considered symmetrical.  A phrase normally consists of a dividable (by 2) amount of measures.  Generally, 8 measures, but grouped as 2 sets of 4 measures with a cadence at the end of each.  I may be alone in this, and it may be a stretch, but I imagine Chords as being symmetrical with the correct set of notes (But if the wrong notes are played, it causes a dissonance, and becomes asymmetrical).

 

It's also been hinted that song plays an important role with the Parshendi.  It could be another connection.

[Leuthie]

Cognitive alignment. Song/rhythm, Symmetry, Trance...all ways to align your Cognitive aspect with something. Syl aligns with kaladin via his Honorable actions. What about more mundane Spren? Align with them using an above technique...

[Morsk he/him]

The dawn-cities shapes apparently represent some of those symmetries, if they can really be produced by sound!

It would have to be a weird sort of sound. Can anyone with more understanding of physics explain this? I only know enough to get into a mess asking questions...

If human-audible sound frequencies produce cynamtic patterns on a plate, making the same pattern on a larger scale, the size of cities, would require much larger waves, with much lower frequencies that humans can't hear. I think this is what Wikipedia is calling Infrasound, and it mentions that it's used to monitor earthquakes. So what created the Dawncities could really be a special kind of plate tectonics that creates these harmonic waves on a low frequency... or something like that. (At this point it's magic and there's handwaving.) It wouldn't be sound people could hear.

[Isomere]

The only way I can see to create cymatic patterns in the earth is if you surrounded an area with barriers that can reflect sound waves. Then you need to produce the right tone to match the resonant frequency of the land you enclosed in the reflectors. Yes, the pitch would likely be well below human hearing. My theory has huge Greatshells creating those sounds, perhaps singing in concert with the original Dawnsingers. 

[happyman he/him]

I would like to emphasize again that these shapes are as much a symbol of symmetries as they are of the sounds.

Actually making cymatic patterns in real planetary crust would be extremely difficult, and not just for the reasons Isomere gave.  There's also the fact that sound, of any wavelength, doesn't move at the same speed in different materials.  Most of the real world is a large blob of "different materials" in some irregular mix.  Roshar may be different, but I don't see evidence that it is that different.  Making a dawncity using cymatics would take some serious engineering.

Maybe Kabsal has a point.  Something strange happened with them.

[Morsk he/him]

Soulcasting could produce perfectly regular stone. Maybe they use cymatics and Soulcasting together to do it in some kind of feedback: stone becomes purer -> sound works better -> Soulcasting works better -> cymatics works better -> etc. Whatever it is would take an awful lot of power. At that power level, it's hard to distinguish "Symmetry is holy to the gods, so they made it this way," from "Symmetry is power on this planet, so the magic had to work this way."