King'sWit Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 I just finished WoR and there's a couple things I'm wondering about. Throughout the book, I was under the impression that Szeth was named Truthless because he had surgebinding abilities that were only supposed to happen before a Desolation, and since the Shin leaders refused to believe that was happening, they named him Truthless, essentially saying that his existence was a lie. Then we find out that his abilities came from his Honorblade; they weren't innate. So why was he named Truthless? And why would the Shin leaders give an Honorblade to a Truthless and then exile him, essentially losing one of their most valuable possessions? Also, how long after the Heralds broke their oathpact did Day of Recreance take place? If the Heralds were leading the KR, wouldn't they have ceased to exist at the same time? Or the KR just continued on their own? Were the Heralds regular men who gained their powers and honorblades from their oaths after reading Nohadon's work? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardbearer he/him Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 I suspect Taravangian manipulated events to help make Szeth into a Truthless. Likely, he witnessed something that led him to believe the Radiants were returning. When he reported this to the Stone Shamans, they would have told him he was mistaken and made him a Truthless. I also suspect Taravangian had a hand in his exile. I believe WoB indicates that the Recreance is rather recent, compared to the Heralds abandoning the Pact. The KR continued on their own, as Jezrien said would happen in the Prologue. The Heralds were created by Honor. They seem to have other powers besides what they get from their Shardblades, including immortality or a long life and the ability resurrect, presumably. Although it's possible that they would not resurrect anymore, after abandoning the pact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 Szeth He was named Truthless for speaking of the coming of the Voidbringers. He speaks of "raising the alarm", and Taravangian says: “Ah, yes,” Taravangian said, thinking furiously. Szeth had been banished from Shinovar, made Truthless for something relating to a claim that the Voidbringers had returned. If he discovered that he wasn’t wrong about that claim, then what— As to his Honorblade, in Shin society, warriors are seen as the lowest of the low. Someone with a supremely powerful weapon would, it is theorized, therefore be even lower than that - a Truthless. We learn a bit on this during an interlude in TWoK. They weren't going to give up the Honorblade permanently. Szeth says that the Stone Shamans would retrieve it after he died in TWoK. Heralds We don't know how long after the Oathpact was broken (which it isn't really - Taln still participates in it) that the Recreance happened. We have good reason to believe it was a long time after. The Heralds were not leading the KR - the Radiants formed independently, then begged the Heralds to lead them (as an epigraph in WoR says, Nalan was very stubborn about this). So when the Heralds left, well, business as usual from before the Desolation. The Heralds came long before Nohadon's time, as Surgebinders came about due to spren trying to copy the Honorblades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter he/him Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 1. I do not believe we have explicit confirmation on what exactly Szeth did that the Shin decided warranted him being made Truthless. Brandon has said he "betrayed the beliefs/culture of his people in a fundamental way". The impression I got from WoR was that he tried to argue that a Desolation was coming/the Radiants were returning which the Shin leaders either did not believe, or did not like, and so gave him the greatest punishment they could, being made Truthless. In a culture where soldiers are the lowest caste of society, becoming what amounts to a living weapon is not one wants to do. As for "losing one of their most valuable possessions" Szeth does mention in WoK that if he were to die his blade would be retrieved. How we don't know but the Shin must have a way. 2. We do not know exactly the Recreance happened, just that it is closer to "modern" Roshar than it is to Aharietiem. We also know it was not in response to what the Heralds did. Also while the Heralds were the patrons of the various Orders, the Orders must have had some sort of internal hierarchy to govern themselves as the Heralds were only present during Desolations, between Desolations the Radiants were on their own. 3. The Heralds as best as we can tell the Heralds were chosen by Honor and given the honorblades by him as part of the Oathpact. That happened long before the Radiants were founded (and also before Nohadon wrote The Way of Kings). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King'sWit Posted August 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 Makes sense. Thanks guys! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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