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The prophetic book


Firehead13

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Let me start this by apologizing for spelling, I'm listening to the book this time round instead of reading and don't have the book on hand.

This may have been mentioned in other posts, but I have come to the conclusion (due to taravangeen's (Tv) journal) that shallan's brother helleran is still alive and the loose idea that TV may have created szeth.

In his conversation with szeth in Jah Keved, he muses that Shallan may have been trained by Jasnah or her brother. This means that at the very least TV's smart self thought helleran was a surgebinder. This means that he likely wouldn't be able to stand to hold a shardblade (dead one), let alone charge into battle to kill Amaram. All we actually know of the assassin is that he had red hair and wielded the same shard that Helleran possessed at one point. Since many in Jah Keved have red hair, it doesn't seem so far fetched to assume that Hell could have handed off his shard blade upon taking some of his oaths.

In a chapter header, TV smart comes to the conclusion that the honor blades are in shin and muses that a truthless with an honorblade would be useful. It seems oddly coincidental that szeth just happens to come along at this time, and makes more sense if TV created him. It's not as though he isn't capable of it.

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The problem is that Taravangian's plans were partialy motivated by Gavilar telling him his visions at the night of his death(partialy, as a secret organization likr his is not something you create from nothing). I theorize he was working together with Gavilar(but not the Sons of Honour, who I think were being used by Gavilar to further his goals) as a spymaster of sorts, and after creating the Diagram he came to the ironic conclusion that he needed a truthless, so he went Szethspotting, and planned to create one if he couldn't find him.

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It's not really clear that Taravangian thinks Helaran was a Surgebinder, mainly because it's not at all clear he knows that Shallan is a Surgebinder (though he seems to speculate she might be one). The relevant passages:

 

 

“Kholin has a Surgebinder,” Szeth said.

 

So, Szeth knew about Jasnah. Had she faked her death, then, as he’d suspected? Damnation.

Sanderson, Brandon (2014-03-04). Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 911). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

 

Taravangian's immediate conclusion is that it's Jasnah that Szeth met. However,

 

Taravangian breathed in and out, struggling to regain control. He looked to Adrotagia, who sat in the middle of a circle of servants and soldiers, all sworn to the Diagram. “Who is it?” he asked softly. “Who is this Surgebinder?”

“Jasnah’s ward?” Adrotagia said.

They had been startled when that one arrived on the Shattered Plains. Already they hypothesized that the girl had been trained. If not by Jasnah, then by the girl’s brother, before his death.

“No,” Taravangian said. “A male. One of Dalinar’s family members?” He thought for a time. “We need the Diagram itself.”

Sanderson, Brandon (2014-03-04). Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 913). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

 

clearly shows that Taravangian is aware of Shallan's presence in the warcamps. This shows that he considers the likelihood of Jasnah faking her death and being in the warcamps to be higher than Shallan being a Surgebinder (assuming everything else being equal) given the first conclusion he jumps to.

 

Adrotagia certainly considers the possibility that Shallan may be a Surgebinder, but the phrasing again implies speculation rather than any certainty. This is less exceptional than it may seem at first glance; it seems clear that Taravangian is expecting the KR to return, so his group is somewhat predisposed to look for potential Surgebinders.

 

The way I read 'trained' in the passage above is not necessarily trained as a Surgebinder, but as an agent - ironically essentially exactly what happens with Veil in the warcamps. Taravangian has met Shallan, and it seems like a reasonable assumption that all he could see of her is that of a perfectly innocent young girl, which, given her family and association with Jasnah, must have been immediately suspicious (a suspicion which retroactively proves to be justified, admittedly). Given that Shallan appears to have survived where Jasnah did not (which, viewed from an external perspective, is pretty flabbergasting), it wouldn't be surprising for Taravangian to speculate that she had some sort of hidden training.

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It's not really clear that Taravangian thinks Helaran was a Surgebinder, mainly because it's not at all clear he knows that Shallan is a Surgebinder (though he seems to speculate she might be one). The relevant passages:

 

 

Taravangian's immediate conclusion is that it's Jasnah that Szeth met. However,

 

 

clearly shows that Taravangian is aware of Shallan's presence in the warcamps. This shows that he considers the likelihood of Jasnah faking her death and being in the warcamps to be higher than Shallan being a Surgebinder (assuming everything else being equal) given the first conclusion he jumps to.

 

Adrotagia certainly considers the possibility that Shallan may be a Surgebinder, but the phrasing again implies speculation rather than any certainty. This is less exceptional than it may seem at first glance; it seems clear that Taravangian is expecting the KR to return, so his group is somewhat predisposed to look for potential Surgebinders.

 

The way I read 'trained' in the passage above is not necessarily trained as a Surgebinder, but as an agent - ironically essentially exactly what happens with Veil in the warcamps. Taravangian has met Shallan, and it seems like a reasonable assumption that all he could see of her is that of a perfectly innocent young girl, which, given her family and association with Jasnah, must have been immediately suspicious (a suspicion which retroactively proves to be justified, admittedly). Given that Shallan appears to have survived where Jasnah did not (which, viewed from an external perspective, is pretty flabbergasting), it wouldn't be surprising for Taravangian to speculate that she had some sort of hidden training.

Ditto!

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  • 1 month later...

I think that the shardblade That Helleran has/had is his own. And I know he's a skybreaker, thanks to Mraize and his useful hints. I also need to thank Mr T for his useful hints as well. But, Helleran could still be alive and happy as you say. Or his corpse could have been eaten by a worldhopping kandra.

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Recall that Shallan recognizes the shardblade Amaram has as the one her brother used to threaten Papa Davar.

 

Many readers have hypothesized that "the Skybreakers" refers to more than one organization, and that being a member of the secret society by that name does not imply association with the Order of Knights Radiant also by that name. See this thread for a summary.

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