Can skilled Coinshots/Lurchers identify metals and alloys by observing their lines?

[kroen]

I always wondered this. Are all metal lines similar except for their width, which correspond with their size? ...or is there more to it? Because if there is, a Coinshot/Lurcher can actually be like a Seeker, only better in certain aspects; for example, he could tell Allomancers and their power by identifying the metal inside the vials they carry with them.

[Satsuoni he/him]

Technically maybe possible, but very dfficult. All Coinshots can learn the trick that allows Inquisitors to see (possibly by becoming Savants - or maybe simply becoming very good with metal, these are two different things). Inquisitors could eventually see well enough to distinguish colors through metal lines, and partially read emotions. So it is plausible that a particularly good, probably Savant, and preferably blind Coinshot could learn how to distinguish metals by, say, their lattice structure. So far, however, nobody except Inquisitors in the books, to my memory (admittedly failing), have learned even to see metal bits inside bodies. So,my opinion: possible, but very rare and hard to train.

[kroen]

Steel Inquisitors saw the metals that's part of the human body, surely they could see metals in the stomach? If they couldn't see the metals that are part of the body then humans who don't carry metal would be invisible to them, and we know this isn't the case. Steel Inquisitors could see the metals in everything. In rocks, in sand, in water... otherwise they would barely be able to function. The only restriction was that they couldn't affect these metals with Allomancy. Basically, any metal that a normal Allomancer can't affect, Steel Inquisitors can't affect either. But they can still see them.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Steel Inquisitors saw the metals that's part of the human body, surely they could see metals in the stomach?

Nope.  Sazed smuggled in his metalminds in book one by swallowing them.

[Vortaan he/him]

Nope.  Sazed smuggled in his metalminds in book one by swallowing them.

 

The surface lines probably hide anything any deeper. Vin's trick with the iron dust proves that too many lines effectively blind an Inquisitor.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

The surface lines probably hide anything any deeper. Vin's trick with the iron dust proves that too many lines effectively blind an Inquisitor.

Lines have trouble penetrating different materials as well.  They don't do well with wood, for instance.  Odds are they don't do well with flesh, either, even without the semi-hemalurgic shielding effect.

[happyman he/him]

I'm willing to bet that Steel and Iron Allomancers can learn to distinguish physical metals.  After all, seekers can distinguish burning metals.  How, I don't know.

[Voidus]

My problem would be that we already know two mistborn who were at the higher end of what's possible with Steel allomancy and neither reported having something like this ability.

[kroen]

My problem would be that we already know two mistborn who were at the higher end of what's possible with Steel allomancy and neither reported having something like this ability.

Power isn't the same as skill. Brandon said that burning copper to protect others from emotional Allomancy is something Mistborns would never be able to perform, as they aren't fixed on just one metal. Maybe it's the same with this. Maybe only a rare highly skilled, gifted and powerful Coinshot/Lurcher would be able to perform this feat.

[Voidus]

Power isn't the same as skill. Brandon said that burning copper to protect others from emotional Allomancy is something Mistborns would never be able to perform, as they aren't fixed on just one metal. Maybe it's the same with this. Maybe only a rare highly skilled, gifted and powerful Coinshot/Lurcher would be able to perform this feat.

It's usually pretty close and both demonstrated the higher end of skill wise ability more than power wise anyway which would be TLR or Elend. Kel and Zane both had insane skill levels with Steel.

[kroen]

It's usually pretty close and both demonstrated the higher end of skill wise ability more than power wise anyway which would be TLR or Elend. Kel and Zane both had insane skill levels with Steel.

Again, just the fact they can burn other metals diminishes their focus of just steel or just iron, no matter how much they seem to favor these metals.

 

Edit: Also, you may have to be a Steel/Iron savant in order to do this, and I don't think Kel/Zane were.

Edited May 8, 2013 by kroen

[Voidus]

Again, just the fact they can burn other metals diminishes their focus of just steel or just iron, no matter how much they seem to favor these metals.

 

Edit: Also, you may have to be a Steel/Iron savant in order to do this, and I don't think Kel/Zane were.

No Lurcher or Coinshot we've seen ever came close to their skill level, neither did an Inquisitor who'd have to be a Savant and is the closest to this kind of thing we've seen.

[kroen]

No Lurcher or Coinshot we've seen ever came close to their skill level, neither did an Inquisitor who'd have to be a Savant and is the closest to this kind of thing we've seen.

We also haven't seen any Smoker who's able to shield others from emotional Allomancy, yet we know it can be done. Yes, that's because Brandon said so, but if we go by the logic of "if we haven't seen it and if Brandom haven't mentioned it then it can't be done" we'll have little in the way of speculating things.

Edited May 8, 2013 by kroen

[Voidus]

Speculating is fine but it needs a basis, otherwise there's no room for discussing it, we could speculate what each Atium alloy would do aswell, but unless we use what we already know about atium's alloys then it's a bit pointless, kind of like speculating about the name of all of Spooks children we could come up with an infinite number of names but it'd be pointless.
Yes Smokers can do things we haven't seen yet but we haven't really had any exceptional Smokers' POV yet either, we've had multiple POV's from those who specialise in Iron and Steel and none suggest that they can tell metals apart by their lines.

[kroen]

Speculating is fine but it needs a basis, otherwise there's no room for discussing it, we could speculate what each Atium alloy would do aswell, but unless we use what we already know about atium's alloys then it's a bit pointless, kind of like speculating about the name of all of Spooks children we could come up with an infinite number of names but it'd be pointless.

Yes Smokers can do things we haven't seen yet but we haven't really had any exceptional Smokers' POV yet either, we've had multiple POV's from those who specialise in Iron and Steel and none suggest that they can tell metals apart by their lines.

I just realized something. Steel Inquisitors don't see like normal people do, they only see the metal in everything. If so, how can they possibly distinguish one metal from another? Are they supposed to trust the people who provide them with the metal? Like someone comes up to them, saying "here's your stipend of atium for the month" and they should just accept that it's actually atium, no questions asked? They must have a concrete way of distinguishing metals, because even if they do trust their providers there might be moments when they would be unavailable. They must be able to tell which is wich themselves. And the only way I can imagine they can do it is by distinguishing metal lines. Do you have another way?

Edited May 8, 2013 by kroen

[Nepene he/him]

I just realized something. Steel Inquisitors don't see like normal people do, they only see the metal in everything. If so, how can they possibly distinguish one metal from another? Are they supposed to trust the people who provide them with the metal? Like someone comes up to them, saying "here's your stipend of atium for the month" and they should just accept that it's actually atium, no questions asked? They must have a concrete way of distinguishing metals, because even if they do trust their providers there might be moments when they would be unavailable. They must be able to tell which is wich themselves. And the only way I can imagine they can do it is by distinguishing metal lines. Do you have another way?

 

If I handed you a sample of iron and steel do you think you could tell me which was which?

 

I'd imagine that eventually you could learn some subtle differences between the two, perhaps with their weight and the way they rust, but humans in general don't have that many ways to distinguish between metals. Especially since most of them are shiny grey solids.

[Voidus]

I just realized something. Steel Inquisitors don't see like normal people do, they only see the metal in everything. If so, how can they possibly distinguish one metal from another? Are they supposed to trust the people who provide them with the metal? Like someone comes up to them, saying "here's your stipend of atium for the month" and they should just accept that it's actually atium, no questions asked? They must have a concrete way of distinguishing metals, because even if they do trust their providers there might be moments when they would be unavailable. They must be able to tell which is wich themselves. And the only way I can imagine they can do it is by distinguishing metal lines. Do you have another way?

They do have direct access to the only person in the country capable of dispensing Atium who also has a vested interest in keeping them alive, I assume they get it directly through the ministry and no ministry working is going to want to anger all the Inquisitors.

[Windrunner he/him]

They could always just swallow the metals. You can distinguish reserves once they're inside of you.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

They could always just swallow the metals. You can distinguish reserves once they're inside of you.

I don't think mistings can detect reserves of metals they can't burn. Edited May 9, 2013 by Phantom Monstrosity

[Windrunner he/him]

Well, I've never seen that said anywhere, but if it's the case, then they'll know for sure whether it's a metal they can burn. If they can't sense it, then they can just throw it up.

Anyway, I thought we were talking about Inquisitors?

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Well, I've never seen that said anywhere, but if it's the case, then they'll know for sure whether it's a metal they can burn. If they can't sense it, then they can just throw it up.

Elend cut the man off, rushing forward, pulling out his spare metal vial. "Drink this," he commanded.

The man paused, then did as asked. Elend knelt beside the bed eagerly, waiting. His heart pounded in his chest. "Well?" he finally asked.

"Well . . . what, my lord?" the soldier asked.

"Do you feel anything?" Elend asked.

The soldier shrugged. "Tired, my lord?"

Elend closed his eyes, sighing. It was a silly—

"Well, that's odd," the soldier suddenly said.

Elend snapped his eyes open.

"Yes," the soldier said, looking a bit distracted. "I . . . I don't know what to make of that."

"Burn it," Elend said, turning on his bronze. "Your body knows how, if you let it."

The soldier's frown deepened, and he cocked his head. Then, he began to thump with Allomantic power.

The soldier drank one of Elend's mistborn vials. He seems to only detect a single well of power here. If he were just burning all of them, he'd have instead gotten rather ill.

Anyway, I thought we were talking about Inquisitors?

Inquisitors can just burn a few grains of a metal to check if it's a good alloy, just like any mistborn does. I think Kelsier gives that as advice when training Vin to use gold.