theory Copper compounding (speculation)

[The One Who Reads he/him]

So as far as I understand it there are two forms of compounding: using allomancy to power feruchemy as seen with Miles Hundredlives in AoL and TLR in The Final Empire and somehow using feruchemy to enhance allomancy. Brandon has confirmed copper compounding produces some effect:

 

 

Some combinations, like some abilities themselves, aren't really that useful. That said, being able to compound copper...that could do some things.

 

WOB and link spoiler'ed for neatness

http://www.theoryland.com/intvsresults.php?kwt=%27feruchemy%27(it is number 52)
FIREARCADIA
Is there any use to being a Copper compounder, from a feruchemical point of view? I think the same point would also apply to an Aluminium compounder.
BRANDON SANDERSON
Some combinations, like some abilities themselves, aren't really that useful. That said, being able to compound copper...that could do some things. Aluminum, not so much.

 

It is easy to see how a-Copper could be enhanced for example producing a bigger copper cloud or producing a 'stronger' cloud and therefore making it harder to Seek inside the cloud and/or influence the Smoker's emotions for more powerful allomancers (such as Lerasium mistborn, Compounders or Hemalurgic freaks err Hemalurgicly enhanced individuals).

 

What is harder to imagine is how f-Copper is enhanced, I have seen different theories proposed (including a not-so-serious idea that it turns f-Copper into a holodeck) but most of the proposed theories alter the way f-Copper operates. The Feruchemical Compounding we have seen so far (health and youth) produces a different effect at first glance to the base process, but on closer inspection is just the same process made 'end-positive' rather than 'end-neutral' to steal Brandon's terms. Feruchemical Compounding is simply th enhancement of a pre-existing feruchemical store. In the other cases this enhancement comes in the form of a greater amount of attribute, now rather than proposing f-copper compounding generates more of an atribute in the form of new memories (which would be a bit trippy) I think it would somehow enhance the memories in the burned coppermind.

 

So what does an enhanced memory do that a normal memory does not? The first answer is nothing, the effect Brandon is refering to would simply be be enhanced a-Copper. I don't like this answer for two reasons:

 

1) The WOB above frames the question 'from a feruchemical point of view' so Brandon probably would have just said it was useless or RAFO'ed it if this was the case.

2) It is boring and a bit cheap to have f-Compounding only work for certain metals.

 

So I champion the idea that an 'enhanced' memory would be one you could store and still recall as a normal memory. By using compounding you with draw more of the attribute than you stored, for most metals this gives you an explosion of power of which you normally use part of and store the rest. In f-Copper Compounding the part you 'use' is the memory you withdraw from the coppermind and the excess memory is stored back into a coppermind. The practical upshot is that you have both the perfectly stored and preserved copy in the coppermind (which you use as a conventional feruchemist would) and a working copy in your head (which you use as a normal person would).

 

Edit: I realise that between thinking this and writing this I have lost a crucial piece of my theory, thanks to LabRat below for pointing this out . While compounding would (if I am correct) allow you to keep multiple memories I am not suggesting this is its sole purpose. LabRat explained it pretty I will just quote him here:

 

you get the memory back at 10x the STRENGTH? So you read a paragraph, and under normal circumstances you could recite it verbatim for 1 minute and recall it's contents for about a half hour (making up numbers, calm down), but if you store the paragraph and then burn it, you can recite it verbatim for 10 mins and remember its contents for 300 mins.

In essence what I am saying is that Double Copper would create memories which are more resistant to degradation and this would also allow you to split memories without the problems a normal archivist would face.

 

So onto that pesky evidence:

 

Splitting a memory is possible for a 'sufficiently practised' Archivist acording to Brandon.

http://www.theoryland.com/intvsresults.php?kwt=%27feruchemy%27(number 51 this time)
VOIDUS
Would an Archivist who was sufficiently practised be able to store memories at different strengths? (Keep a vague recollection of the memory as well as a stored copy which would degrade faster)
BRANDON SANDERSON
I don't think this is outside of reason for one to do, if they wanted to. I'm not sure if they would want to, but it's plausible.

Now Brandon implies this isn't something an archivist would want to do. But I think that while a regular Archivist Ferring would lack the raw power to form two full strength memories, a copper compounder would be able to split his memory without enchancing degradation in the coppermind or losing memory clarity in his head.

 

The Lord Ruler is the only confirmed copper compounder we have seen, we are told he has a perfect memory. Brandon states in the annotations this is foreshadowing of his feruchemical abilities so it is not just an in world urban myth, exaggeration or the result of lots of life experience (like his ability to detect lies). He really is using f-copper to store memories. Now at first when I re-read that line about his perfect memory I thought "huh Brandon was foreshadowing he was feruchemist here" but looking back again I notice that is not quite right. 

 

When storing memories you lose all the information you stored, when Sazed was narrating and storing his experiences in WoA he describes it as follows:

"It was an interesting experience. As soon as he [sazed] spoke he felt the thoughts sucked from his mind, leaving behind a blank hollowness. He had difficulty remembering the specifics of what he had just been saying”. Bold mine.

 

I find it difficult to imagine TLR ruler going around asking everyone their name twice so he could keep a copy in his Coppermind and head, in fact this probably would have created a very different reputation for memory and possibly some awkward situations!

 

TLR: And which of my subjects do we have here?

Mr Nobleman: My name is Telvidin Pimplechook, my Lord

*TLR notes the amusing similarity between name and face and creates a coppermind memory*

TLR: And which of my subjects do we have here?

Confused Nobleman: Errrr… My name is Telvidin Pimplechook, my Lord

TLR: Ah yes of course, the one with the amusing similarity between name and face.

Nervous Nobleman: As you say my Lord, a most amusing jest my Lord.

TLR: That was not a joke, I never joke. Spike him for the tin he is burning.

 

If however my wild speculation is correct then he would have been able to meet Mr Nobleman shake his hand (or glare disapprovingly) hear his name and whatever other important information he wanted to keep. Then store the information into a coppermind and burn that coppermind creating an enhanced memory allowing him to both store into a second coppermind and keep a copy in his head. This would give him in effect two memories a normal memory constantly ‘on tap’ and fallible and a reliable back up he can use to check when he is uncertain.

 

There are of cource problems with this theory

http://www.theoryland.com/intvsresults.php?kwt=%27feruchemy%27(looking at 62 now)
THE_VIKACHU ()
If someone broke a coppermind, could the feruchemist still access a fragment of the information in it from a chunk of the coppermind, or would he require that the whole thing be reformed to access any of its storage?

BRANDON SANDERSON
The information would be fragmented.

Memories are distict unlike the other fairly amorphous attributes, in my 'system' (very hesitant to use that term on a site dedicated to Sanderson) the compounder would apparantly have to burn to correct section of a metalmind or the whole rusting thing to guarantee compounding the right memory.

 

If you have read through this wall of text congratulations! Don't worry soon a new Sanderson book will come out and you can stop reading rambling theories like mine on 17th Shard.

Edited June 21, 2015 by The One Who Reads

[Guest]

Double copies would work, and in fact make sense since you get back 10x what you put in... but aside from keeping multiple pristine copies this seems pretty limited in its usefulness.

What if, instead of getting 10x the copies, you get the memory back at 10x the STRENGTH? So you read a paragraph, and under normal circumstances you could recite it verbatim for 1 minute and recall it's contents for about a half hour (making up numbers, calm down), but if you store the paragraph and then burn it, you can recite it verbatim for 10 mins and remember its contents for 300 mins.

Edited June 20, 2015 by LabRat

[The One Who Reads he/him]

Double copies would work, and in fact make sense since you get back 10x what you put in... but aside from keeping multiple pristine copies this seems pretty limited in its usefulness.

What if, instead of getting 10x the copies, you get the memory back at 10x the STRENGTH? So you read a paragraph, and under normal circumstances you could recite it verbatim for 1 minute and recall it's contents for about a half hour (making up numbers, calm down), but if you store the paragraph and then burn it, you can recite it verbatim for 10 mins and remember its contents for 300 mins.

Yes, this is what I meant by an enhanced memory (somehow I forgot to define that in my rambling).  Also having pristine copies as well as a 'head' copy is pretty much all the advantages of normal f-Copper (which I personly think is one of the most useful single powers) without the downside of memory loss.

[yurisses]

Given that a Feruchemist can "keep a vague recollection of the memory as well as a stored copy which would degrade faster", if we assume Allomantic compounding makes a memory stronger (let's say ten times although I believe this depends on the user's Allomantic potential), then a copper Compounder can store a quintuple strength memory into a coppermind while also retaining the same memory in mind at quintuple strength. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited June 20, 2015 by yurisses

[Somthingmachine he/him]

I was pondering this same question in a Facebook group the other day.  I had the theory that maybe it worked like compressing more information into a smaller space. (i.e. Zipped folders in Windows etc.)  That depends on whether I'm correct in that depending on the size of the metalmind it can only hold so much investiture.  (Like a bracer holds way more than a ring)  

 

Maybe burning a coppermind lets you put more information into a smaller coppermind. Like if you could swallow a golf ball sized piece of copper that was full you could then pour the memories stored there into a smaller form, like a ring, or marble sized copper ball.  That was just a spitball idea I thought of, though the above seems more useful/more interesting.

[natc]

Burning a metalmind should produce a perfectly functional allomantic effect though, otherwise independent of feruchemy. I'm iffy on something so feruchemy-reliant.

[MistLord he/him]

I'm glad I'm not the only slaving over this concept XD unfortunately, I don't have any more to add except for the fact I've thought of memory-enhancement and memory duplication before -- so I guess that's something?

[Voidus]

Yay! Someone used my answer from Brandons Q&A here!
This is essentially what I was thinking of when I asked that question, I think that in determining that a memory can be split like that that Feruchemical copper does also have a certain 'strength' associated with each memory and so that may be possible to compound, essentially creating a memory that is really difficult to forget, which is I think where the rumours of TLR having perfect recall come from.

[Oudeis he/him]

Hrm. So... if he's at a ball, he could have a large amount of copper in his system. He meets someone, instantly stores the face/name in the metal flakes floating in his stomach. Burns it, compounding the memory for perfect recall. Quick way to remember things forever.

Edited July 5, 2015 by Oudeis