Allomancy genetics questions

[SirShemmington VI]

On the grounds of allomancy and feruchemy being genetic, could it be possible for a ferichemist misting to be born, or a mistborn ferring.

 

Assuming it was possible, and you could be a full blown misting/feruchemist and a ferring/misting, which metals would you choose?

[Vortaan]

Misting/Feruchemists exist by the time of Alloy of Law. They are called Twinborn, and the main character is a Coinshot/Iron Ferring.

 

As for me? Probably double steel, Coinshot plus unlimited physical speed sounds handy on a daily basis.

[The Nameless One]

I believe that Sir Shemmington is referring to a full Feruchemist/Misting or a full Mistborn/Ferring.

 

I'd want to be a Feruchemist/Coinshot.

[Voidus]

No reason it shouldn't be possible, given the right genetics, or some Lerasium.
I'd be a Feruchemist/Augur (For the double gold) or a Mistborn/Nicrosil ferring.

[Krelian]

I'd want gold compounding with Mistborn status.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Feruchemist / nicrosil misting.

 

Because why compound one metal when you can (sort of) compound them all?

Edited March 15, 2013 by Phantom Monstrosity

[TheChronicFeruchemist]

I'd go with Subsumer(bendalloy) and a coinshot(steel).

[Vortaan]

I believe that Sir Shemmington is referring to a full Feruchemist/Misting or a full Mistborn/Ferring.

 

I'd want to be a Feruchemist/Coinshot.

 

My fault. In that case... I'm guessing not as things stand right now on Scadrial. There don't seem to be any full Mistborn or Feruchemists. In fact... we don't know what caused full Feruchemists to begin with, since there haven't been any since Harmony appeared. It seems odd that he'd change Feruchemy so much when he knows it's limits. 

 

And I'd still go with Steel Ferring/Mistborn. That unlimited speed just seems to trump everything else.

[Voidus]

My fault. In that case... I'm guessing not as things stand right now on Scadrial. There don't seem to be any full Mistborn or Feruchemists. In fact... we don't know what caused full Feruchemists to begin with, since there haven't been any since Harmony appeared. It seems odd that he'd change Feruchemy so much when he knows it's limits. 

Harmony didn't change it, it's a result of it mixing with Allomancy genes and being systematically bred out of the population that we get ferrings now.

[TheChronicFeruchemist]

Harmony didn't change it, it's a result of it mixing with Allomancy genes and being systematically bred out of the population that we get ferrings now.

 Actually Brandon's said that there were ferrings before the Terris started intermarrying with the general population. Source

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Very rare, though. Probably due to limited intermixing.

[Vortaan]

Harmony didn't change it, it's a result of it mixing with Allomancy genes and being systematically bred out of the population that we get ferrings now.

 

This doesn't seem to jive. A thousand year breeding program still didn't remove full Feruchemists from the Terris people. While I'm sure that there was some intermarrying right after Harmony reshaped the world, the Terris people still tend to keep to themselves, and I'd imagine that some families are probably still pretty purebred. 

[Voidus]

 Actually Brandon's said that there were ferrings before the Terris started intermarrying with the general population. Source

Yeah I remember reading that, it's strange when I first read that I read it as feruchemists who had misting abilities, not ferrings. Could be talking about it I guess in which case probably some small amounts of allomancy genetics from pre-ascension times throwing it out.

 

This doesn't seem to jive. A thousand year breeding program still didn't remove full Feruchemists from the Terris people. While I'm sure that there was some intermarrying right after Harmony reshaped the world, the Terris people still tend to keep to themselves, and I'd imagine that some families are probably still pretty purebred. 

Yeah, but that mixed in with the annihilation of all living feruchemists by the inquisitors might have done it. And they might not have really had the option of keeping pure lines among the Terris, due to the breeding programs many of the male lines would die out. There might be some but the obvious answer there is that they didn't have enough feruchemy sDNA to produce full feruchemists.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Vortaan, on 16 Mar 2013 - 09:12, said:

This doesn't seem to jive. A thousand year breeding program still didn't remove full Feruchemists from the Terris people. While I'm sure that there was some intermarrying right after Harmony reshaped the world, the Terris people still tend to keep to themselves, and I'd imagine that some families are probably still pretty purebred.

Feruchemy got wiped out of the population three times.

First when Rashek turned them all into mistwraiths, second when he eliminated all living feruchemists in the second century, and third when Ruin eliminated all living feruchemists for his inquisitors.

Plus the lord ruler's breeding programs.

It kind of makes sense for the genes to be super rare at this point.

Edited March 16, 2013 by Phantom Monstrosity

[Vortaan]

Feruchemy got wiped out of the population three times.

First when Rashek turned them all into mistwraiths, second when he eliminated all living feruchemists in the second century, and third when Ruin eliminated all living feruchemists for his inquisitors.

Plus the lord ruler's breeding programs.

It kind of makes sense for the genes to be super rare at this point.

Rare, yes. Non-existent? Seems very unlikely that they couldn't bounce back at all... but maybe we'll find out there are a few full Feruchemists, hiding away somewhere.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Rare, yes. Non-existent? Seems very unlikely that they couldn't bounce back at all... but maybe we'll find out there are a few full Feruchemists, hiding away somewhere.

Yeah, so you've got a full feruchemist. Unfortunately, he's got some terrible misting genes messing up his superpowers.

http://www.tor.com/blogs/2011/11/the-alloy-of-law-spoiler-thread

1. Why do the Twinborn in Alloy of Law have only one feruchemical power, when all previous feruchemists, in spite of breeding programs, could use all the metals? (from travyl) Or were Ferrings always part of the system and we just didn’t meet them in Mistborn? (my addition)

A: The Ferrings are a new development since Mistborn, as the Feruchemists have been interbreeding with the Allomancers. Basically, the Allomancy genes interfere with the Feruchemistry genes, breaking it down and creating the limitations we see in Alloy of Law. (His response to this was really fun - he found it a very perceptive question, and enjoyed talking about it. I wish I'd had my recorder handy so I could give you the full transcript instead of the boiled-down version.)

So instead of getting full feruchemy, he gets one of the powers.

My fanspec is that having extra preservation messes up the delicate ruin/preservation balance needed for feruchemy.

Edited March 17, 2013 by Phantom Monstrosity

[Vortaan]

Yeah, so you've got a full feruchemist. Unfortunately, he's got some terrible misting genes messing up his superpowers.

http://www.tor.com/blogs/2011/11/the-alloy-of-law-spoiler-threadSo instead of getting full feruchemy, he gets one of the powers.

My fanspec is that having extra preservation messes up the delicate ruin/preservation balance needed for feruchemy.

 

Ah ha! That makes a lot more sense. It seems like full Feruchemists would have slowly died out then, with Ferrings become more predominant as more Allomancer/Feruchemist genes mingled. This also seems to indicate the Lord Ruler's breeding program was tragically unnecessary, as there would never have been another full Mistborn/Feruchemist. Allomancy genes being introduced into the Terris population could have actually given him a lot less trouble, since there would have been less Keepers (although probably no Sazed, so that would have ended poorly)

[Krelian]

I wonder, does that mean that the only way to be a full Mistborn-Feruchemist is to be a full Feruchemist who ingests Lerasium? Or is it just ridiculously unlikely otherwise?

 

Given the power full Mistborn-Feruchemists wield, I'd guess the former, but genetics isn't an exact science. I could see it being possible, even if we could safely say it would never happen over X amount of time.

[Voidus]

Ah ha! That makes a lot more sense. It seems like full Feruchemists would have slowly died out then, with Ferrings become more predominant as more Allomancer/Feruchemist genes mingled. This also seems to indicate the Lord Ruler's breeding program was tragically unnecessary, as there would never have been another full Mistborn/Feruchemist. Allomancy genes being introduced into the Terris population could have actually given him a lot less trouble, since there would have been less Keepers (although probably no Sazed, so that would have ended poorly)

But then people would know how he was immortal and healed, etc. and there would have been other twinborns.

[Krelian]

Having Twinborn would unnecessarily complicate the LR's efforts. Without another full Mistborn-Feruchemist to challenge him, he was safe either way. Better to kill off the ones with knowledge of ideas that could threaten his own ideology (ie Keepers). 

[Voidus]

If they understood how compounding health worked, people would realise they just need to get his gold off of him, then kill him and he's dead.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Ah ha! That makes a lot more sense. It seems like full Feruchemists would have slowly died out then, with Ferrings become more predominant as more Allomancer/Feruchemist genes mingled. This also seems to indicate the Lord Ruler's breeding program was tragically unnecessary, as there would never have been another full Mistborn/Feruchemist. Allomancy genes being introduced into the Terris population could have actually given him a lot less trouble, since there would have been less Keepers (although probably no Sazed, so that would have ended poorly)

Well, keep in mind that the allomantic genes have also thinned out. For all we know, the second generation allomancers after the original leras bead ones were all mistborn, and there was a similar issue with the terrible misting genes messing up THEIR powers as well.

[TheChronicFeruchemist]

Having Twinborn would unnecessarily complicate the LR's efforts. Without another full Mistborn-Feruchemist to challenge him, he was safe either way. Better to kill off the ones with knowledge of ideas that could threaten his own ideology (ie Keepers). 

And surpressing both Feruchemy and Hemalurgy TLR was making sure that a mistborn didn't use hemalurgy to make themselves a feruchemist too.

[happyman]

If there was one thing TLR needed to keep under wraps, it was information about Feruchemy.

 

After all, that's what led Vin, with just a few hints, to take down TLR.  Now imagine a small army of trained Mistborn, knowing exactly how TLR was staying alive and healthy, attacking him.  It would still have been hard, but somebody would have succeeded eventually.

Add in some Twinborn and maybe a bit of Hemalurgy, and it becomes an even trickier fight for TLR.  Much, much easier to just suppress Feruchemy entirely.

[TheChronicFeruchemist]

If there was one thing TLR needed to keep under wraps, it was information about Feruchemy.

 

After all, that's what led Vin, with just a few hints, to take down TLR.  Now imagine a small army of trained Mistborn, knowing exactly how TLR was staying alive and healthy, attacking him.  It would still have been hard, but somebody would have succeeded eventually.

Add in some Twinborn and maybe a bit of Hemalurgy, and it becomes an even trickier fight for TLR.  Much, much easier to just suppress Feruchemy entirely.

Agreed. Although it seems like TLR was grasping at straws with his breeding program. We don't know what causes feruchemy sDNA to be added to the body, nor does it seem like anyone else does in text (we know it comes from a balance of preservation and ruin, but there is no metal connected to it, that we know of.) It seems to be naturally occuring in the terris population seeing as it bounced back from non existance a few times. But why just the terris and not the rest of scadrial? I don't think its locational, perhaps it's genetic.

 

Crazy theory but maybe the terris are the orginal humans that rune and preservation created and the other races(for lack of a better word.) are off world settlers. I have no evidence for this, it is just an idea.