Question 12

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

What I don't get is that a lot of the people who vigorously attack Harry Potter are also devoted fans of the Narnia books. The Narnia books, which contain:

• Magic both good and evil;
• Murder on large and small scales;
• Slavery and associated beatings;
• Implications of torture and cannibalism;
• At least two personifications of the Devil.

What is so terrible about the Harry Potter books that can't be said about Narnia or LotR?

From what I've gathered, their main defense is that Narnia called its villain a witch and was pretty much unequivocal about the notion that witches are bad. Harry Potter, on the other hand, calls heroes and villains alike witches and wizards, which equates to moral relativism in their eyes. Yet they ignore the Deep Magic in Narnia, and the fact that Aslan is resurrected through this Magic, and that magic is pretty much the basis for Narnia as a world. Their argument is basically nothing more than semantics--"Ooooohhhhh, Rowling called her magic witchcraft and the KJV uses that word in a negative context!" Very few HP critics have actually read the books. Edited June 8, 2015 by TwiLyghtSansSparkles

[Kobold King he/him]

I admidetly haven't read Narnia but isn't the lion in those books god or something like that?

 

Yep. Aslan is Jesus Christ as he appears to the Narnians, and numerous references are made to his being the son of the Great Emperor Beyond-the-Sea.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

Yep. Aslan is Jesus Christ as he appears to the Narnians, and numerous references are made to his being the son of the Great Emperor Beyond-the-Sea.

And he uses magic to resurrect. He uses magic to create Narnia. Heck, there's even a scene in The Magician's Nephew where he tells a young boy named Digory to take an apple from the same garden the White Witch just ate from. The apple the Witch eats grants her cursed immortality, but the one Digory picks protects Narnia for centuries. It's all about how they're used and the motives for using them, yet Harry and Voldemort both use magic and it's construed as moral relativism while the apple thing is construed as intent changing an outcome.

[Kobold King he/him]

From what I've gathered, their main defense is that Narnia called its villain a witch and was pretty much unequivocal about the notion that witches are bad. Harry Potter, on the other hand, calls heroes and villains alike witches and wizards, which equates to moral relativism in their eyes. Yet they ignore the Deep Magic in Narnia, and the fact that Aslan is resurrected through this Magic, and that magic is pretty much the basis for Narnia as a world. Their argument is basically nothing more than semantics--"Ooooohhhhh, Rowling called her magic witchcraft and the KJV uses that word in a negative context!" Very few HP critics have actually read the books.

 

They're wrong on that, since there are several good magicians in the series even setting aside Aslan and the Deep Magic. Off the top of my head, I can name several characters who were skilled in the art of magic and used those skills for good:

 

• Caspian's tutor Cornelius;
• Ramandu;
• The magician who ruled over the Dufflepuds;
• The Hermit of the Southern March in The Horse and His Boy.

These characters were consistently portrayed in a positive light, with magic itself presented as a natural part of Creation with nothing inherently good or evil about it. Characters were judged by their actions rather than by the tools they used; no one ever said "The White Witch is evil because she uses magic, and that's an abomination." They call her evil because she turns dissenters into statues and keeps the entire land frosted over in an eternal winter. There's a fine distinction there.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

They're wrong on that, since there are several good magicians in the series even setting aside Aslan and the Deep Magic. Off the top of my head, I can name several characters who were skilled in the art of magic and used those skills for good:

• Caspian's tutor Cornelius;
• Ramandu;
• The magician who ruled over the Dufflepuds;
• The Hermit of the Southern March in The Horse and His Boy.

These characters were consistently portrayed in a positive light, with magic itself presented as a natural part of Creation with nothing inherently good or evil about it. Characters were judged by their actions rather than by the tools they used; no one ever said "The White Witch is evil because she uses magic, and that's an abomination." They call her evil because she turns dissenters into statues and keeps the entire land frosted over in an eternal winter. There's a fine distinction there.

...and the fact she basically nuked Charn to oblivion before deceiving her way into Narnia. There's even a strong note of evil things being used for good in that book, since it's Uncle Andrew's magic rings that kill guinea pigs and bring Jadis into Narnia...but also send Digory and Polly there and allow him to find the apple that heals his mother.

[Blaze1616 he/him]

I'm not sure if I'll be able to get my Corvallis post up today, but it is definitely in the works and should get posted at some point this week. Just letting you all know.

Comatose, my plan is to restrain Converter, and then let you handle the explanations of what happens to her afterwards. It sounds like you want to keep her there, with guards posted and the like.

[Edgedancer he/him]

...and the fact she basically nuked Charn to oblivion before deceiving her way into Narnia. There's even a strong note of evil things being used for good in that book, since it's Uncle Andrew's magic rings that kill guinea pigs and bring Jadis into Narnia...but also send Digory and Polly there and allow him to find the apple that heals his mother.

I'd better never let all those people claiming Harry Potter is satanistic see most of what I've written. Then again, I don't use the word witch, so I might still be safe.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

I'd better never let all those people claiming Harry Potter is satanistic see most of what I've written. Then again, I don't use the word witch, so I might still be safe.

Yeeeaaahhhhh, they'd probably go mute with terror if they read parts of this RP (notably the hunt, the atrocity contest, and anything Nighthound.) Oh, and don't even get me started on the fury Lightwards' "perversion of the Resurrection" would cause. Never mind that these Epics perverting powers that might otherwise do some good is kind of the entire point.

Edited June 8, 2015 by TwiLyghtSansSparkles

[Kobold King he/him]

I'd better never let all those people claiming Harry Potter is satanistic see most of what I've written. Then again, I don't use the word witch, so I might still be safe.

 

 

Just for the record, I have nothing against conservative Christians--I guess you could count me as one, technically. I just think some of the more rabidly vocal members of the anti-Harry Potter camp kind of make fools of themselves trying to "prove" J. K. Rowling is a satanist. 

 

Get the logs out of your eyes before you try pulling the splinter from Ms. Rowling's, guys. Please and thank you.

[Voidus]

Generally as an atheist I try to respect peoples beliefs. But when those beliefs try to demonize other people, particularly incredibly influential authors.
 
 

There's just as many christian allegories in HP as there are in Narnia if you know where to look. There's a confirmed heaven, witches and wizards still celebrate christmas holidays. There's just no reason to hate on HP at all.

So to those naysayers I say: You are a dirty meanieface full of lame.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

Generally as an atheist I try to respect peoples beliefs. But when those beliefs try to demonize other people, particularly incredibly influential authors.

There's just as many christian allegories in HP as there are in Narnia if you know where to look. There's a confirmed heaven, witches and wizards still celebrate christmas holidays. There's just no reason to hate on HP at all.

So to those naysayers I say: You are a dirty meanieface full of lame.

I found far more Christian allegories in those books than I did attacks on the faith (namely, zero attacks at all) and the series was a heck of a lot more fun than many more blatant allegories (Narnia being an exception; those books are pretty obvious with their symbolism, but they're well-written and I found them quite enjoyable).

[Mckeedee123 he/him]

There's just as many christian allegories in HP as there are in Narnia if you know where to look. There's a confirmed heaven, witches and wizards still celebrate christmas holidays. There's just no reason to hate on HP at all.

 

Well, the "heaven" was deliberately left vague so that it could fit into any existing belief system, including ones that teach reincarnation, or atheism (I was confused by what Dumbledore said a the end of the scene, but then I realized all that it meant was that this could potentially be a figment of Harry's imagination if there was no afterlife at all.)

Edited June 8, 2015 by Mckeedee123

[Voidus]

Well, the "heaven" was deliberately left vague so that it could fit into any existing belief system, including ones that teach reincarnation, or atheism (were you confused by what Dumbledore said a the end of the scene? All that it meant was that this could potentially be a figment of Harry's imagination if there was no afterlife at all.)

Well not even all Christians can agree on what heaven would be like so it wasn't that surprising but with the continuing themes of redemption, death, resurrection and morality throughout there are some very strong Christian influences.

EDIT: Oh also just caught up on that Salem post, Soulcaster is a man

Edited June 8, 2015 by Voidus

[Comatose he/him]

I'm not sure if I'll be able to get my Corvallis post up today, but it is definitely in the works and should get posted at some point this week. Just letting you all know.

Comatose, my plan is to restrain Converter, and then let you handle the explanations of what happens to her afterwards. It sounds like you want to keep her there, with guards posted and the like.

That sounds good to me!  I'll wait for your post and then handle the details from there.  *gets excited at the prospect of getting to Hypno's scene in time for Mailiw's return.  

 

On the HP point, I was once criticized by a very conservative great aunt for reading fantasy.  She basically said all fantasy was rubbish except for the Narnia books "because the lion was Christ."  I chuckled politely and changed the topic, haha.  Really, I'd say Harry Potter, and many other fantasy novels I've read, have more christian/religious allegories and messages than many of the non-fiction books I've read.  I mean, you look at HP, which has overall themes of friendship, trust, self-sacrifice, and the conquering of evil by the power of love, I'd say that seems pretty darn in line with Christian theology to me, witchcraft and all.  

[Fatebreaker he/him]

So here's the Ballooner's plan of attack/what he's been doing: They've been floating above the museum silently, dropping balloons full of gasoline on the museum and through any windows or skylights he could find. They plan to get things warming up pretty soon.

 

Kobold: Would it be alright for The Ballooner to drop an acid balloon on Lightward's face? 

 

Also, if anyone needs an escape plan, both the Ballooner and Schultz can create balloons or parachutes.

[Kobold King he/him]

So here's the Ballooner's plan of attack/what he's been doing: They've been floating above the museum silently, dropping balloons full of gasoline on the museum and through any windows or skylights he could find. They plan to get things warming up pretty soon.

 

Kobold: Would it be alright for The Ballooner to drop an acid balloon on Lightward's face? 

 

Also, if anyone needs an escape plan, both the Ballooner and Schultz can create balloons or parachutes.

 

He can try to, but if he's floating high enough to avoid pterodactyl or bullet attacks he shouldn't have much accuracy. So Lightwards wouldn't feel debilitating pain so much as mild confusion as a man in a hot air balloon pelts the floor around him with acid balloons, screaming angrily in a thick German accent all the while.

[Fatebreaker he/him]

Normally I'd agree, but Schultz can use his ability to control their flight by wrapping the balloons in tape, making them much more accurate, but not infallible. Plus, I was thinking Lightwards inflated ego might have made his head swell to a much more hit-able size

Plus, they're big balloons, capable of holding a few gallons of acid. And I know that pterodactyls are easily taken care of with a bullet or two, so I'm not too worried about that. The plan is for them to crash the Zepplin into the museum, causing it to explode and light the MoNA on fire, thanks to all of their earlier work with the gasoline balloons.

[Kobold King he/him]

Normally I'd agree, but Schultz can use his ability to control their flight by wrapping the balloons in tape, making them much more accurate, but not infallible. Plus, I was thinking Lightwards inflated ego might have made his head swell to a much more hit-able size

Plus, they're big balloons, capable of holding a few gallons of acid. And I know that pterodactyls are easily taken care of with a bullet or two, so I'm not too worried about that. The plan is for them to crash the Zepplin into the museum, causing it to explode and light the MoNA on fire, thanks to all of their earlier work with the gasoline balloons.

 

That could work. What kind of acid are we talking about? Super-potent, turn-Lightwards-into-Harvey-Twoface-until-his-next-resurrection acid, or milder burn-your-face-but-not-leave-half-of-it-a-skeleton kind of acid?

[Shattered he/him]

Does anyone know when Mailliw is coming back? I forgot and I don't particularly want to hunt through the old question threads to find out.

[18th Shard he/him]

A week from now, I believe - he said three weeks May 30. 

[mail-mi he/him]

Sooo, apparently I have some catching up to do pretty much everywhere.  Glad to see the RP is moving.  

 

Silver never got back to me, so I might give the rest of the night, and then get things moving in Corvallis tomorrow.

 

Just emailed him asking if I could take over his characters. He should respond to his email this weekend.

 

Also, I'll write up a Mommy post, tonight or tomorrow. I assume that the MEE has some radios that they can contact each other with, and that's what Mommy will use as an escape plan. Kobold, I'm going to have Mommy clean the rest of the blood off of Lightward's jacket. Is that okay?  

[Edgedancer he/him]

Normally I'd agree, but Schultz can use his ability to control their flight by wrapping the balloons in tape, making them much more accurate, but not infallible. Plus, I was thinking Lightwards inflated ego might have made his head swell to a much more hit-able size

Plus, they're big balloons, capable of holding a few gallons of acid. And I know that pterodactyls are easily taken care of with a bullet or two, so I'm not too worried about that. The plan is for them to crash the Zepplin into the museum, causing it to explode and light the MoNA on fire, thanks to all of their earlier work with the gasoline balloons.

What I'd be more worried about is the pterodactyls attacking from above so they can get their ballons or giving away his location, given that the other MEE members haven been taken care of in about a minute or so, he really wouldnt have had the time to prepare any of this. Plus, he'd have to get away from the museum a good distance to safely before he can crash the zeppelin in there, while on the other hand the zepplin would be a gigantic target.

 

That could work. What kind of acid are we talking about? Super-potent, turn-Lightwards-into-Harvey-Twoface-until-his-next-resurrection acid, or milder burn-your-face-but-not-leave-half-of-it-a-skeleton kind of acid?

Well, the balloons would have to be able to sustain the acid, so it couldn't be very potent. Actually, if they have any descent size a peterodactyl could probably use them as a shild and ram them back into the ballooner or at least cause them to pop a save distance away.

 

Just emailed him asking if I could take over his characters. He should respond to his email this weekend.

 

Also, I'll write up a Mommy post, tonight or tomorrow. I assume that the MEE has some radios that they can contact each other with, and that's what Mommy will use as an escape plan. Kobold, I'm going to have Mommy clean the rest of the blood off of Lightward's jacket. Is that okay?  

Not any actual problems I could see, but you might better wait until you actually have that escape plan unless you want her to get captured/killed.

 

Edit: actually, Voidus, how likely are Whittle and C4 to spill the beans about Mommy, the Ballooner and Schultz?

Edited June 9, 2015 by Edgedancer

[Blackhoof]

Just emailed him asking if I could take over his characters. He should respond to his email this weekend.

Also, I'll write up a Mommy post, tonight or tomorrow. I assume that the MEE has some radios that they can contact each other with, and that's what Mommy will use as an escape plan. Kobold, I'm going to have Mommy clean the rest of the blood off of Lightward's jacket. Is that okay?

Yeah its probably better if he shares his characters with someone else- that way we can continue playing even if he is unavailable through no fault of his own.

Edited June 9, 2015 by Blackhoof

[Voidus]

Edit: actually, Voidus, how likely are Whittle and C4 to spill the beans about Mommy, the Ballooner and Schultz?

Well I imagine Whittle is probably going to be eaten before he has the chance but in the face of Nighthound level Slontzeyness I think C4 would probably say something, like Neverthere she's a bit of an opportunist.

[mail-mi he/him]

Not any actual problems I could see, but you might better wait until you actually have that escape plan unless you want her to get captured/killed.

Edit: actually, Voidus, how likely are Whittle and C4 to spill the beans about Mommy, the Ballooner and Schultz?

Right. I'll think of something...