In what ways is Hemalurgically stolen Feruchemy weaker?

[yurisses]

We know that Hemalurgy steals weakened versions of magical powers. Since Allomancy is end-positive, it's easy to imagine how Allomancy can be weakened: a decreased connection with Preservation, meaning the amount of power (Investiture) you can draw is reduced. Another, compatible possibility is a reduced amount of control over the power (e.g. emotional Allomancy would be harder to control).

Since Feruchemy is end-neutral, I'm not sure what would be a weakened version of the power. The power you use is entirely your own, not Investiture taken from Preservation of which the amount varies between users. The books are unclear about what separates powerful Feruchemists from weak ones, other than their cunning and metal reserves.

- Maybe Hemalurgically acquired Feruchemy is harder to control? The users would have less freedom in the rate and speed at which to store and tap power, for example unable to tap enormous amounts of strength at once, or required to tap faster than they might want. Perhaps they do not have such restrictions, but cannot accurately control how much to tap or store? e.g. they are free to store a lot of health at once if they wish to, but might just end up dying in the process, storing just a little too much because of their lack of fine control.

- Another possibility would be that Hemalurgically acquired Feruchemy becomes end-negative, and the users need to store more than they will be able to tap? You would store 10 kilograms for an hour, and be able to tap 8 kilograms for another hour, or 10 kilograms for 48 minutes. Stored memories would appear less vivid every time you consult them and store them back.

Do you know of any relevant WoB? Any more theories regarding the net loss?

Edited May 26, 2015 by yurisses

[Colours]

...Other possibilities include being able to store less of an attribute per unit volume of a metal - which doesn't seem to trouble many feruchemists at all, perhaps because they have piles of jewelry anyway - or increased difficulty in accessing a stored attribute (normal feruchemists can do it almost without thinking, as far as I remember, but hema-feruchemists might need to concentrate a little).

 

It's also possible that whatever Preversation leaks out of the Feruchemy spike is filled in by Ruin, so, unlike Allomancy, it doesn't get any less powerful. Well, that's if Feruchemy-with-slightly-more-Ruin works just like normal Feruchemy, which it might not.

[yurisses]

...Other possibilities include being able to store less of an attribute per unit volume of a metal - which doesn't seem to trouble many feruchemists at all, perhaps because they have piles of jewelry anyway - or increased difficulty in accessing a stored attribute (normal feruchemists can do it almost without thinking, as far as I remember, but hema-feruchemists might need to concentrate a little).

 

It's also possible that whatever Preversation leaks out of the Feruchemy spike is filled in by Ruin, so, unlike Allomancy, it doesn't get any less powerful. Well, that's if Feruchemy-with-slightly-more-Ruin works just like normal Feruchemy, which it might not.

 

Good thinking. Perhaps what separates a powerful Feruchemist from a weak one has to do with the amount of power they can store in a given volume of metal. And perhaps this level of power can be gauged by the amount of empathy that they feel towards metals they can use.

 

Going on a tangent here, your second paragraph makes me think of Atium... When Allomancers burn Atium, they are not drawing power from Preservation (or are they...?) but from Ruin's body, i.e. the Atium itself. Does it suggest that Allomantic strength with regard to Atium is independent from how much Preservation is in your sDNA / how strong your connection to Preservation is / how much Lerasium you ate in your life? Does it have more to do with the volume of Atium you're burning? Does a stronger connection to Ruin increase how much power you can get from an Atium bead?

 

In other words: if you Hemalurgically steal someone's ability to burn Atium, is the ability really weakened? This has to do with whether Atium Allomancy is really end-positive and of Preservation in some way (in which case the ability would be weakened), or whether it's strictly of Ruin (and end-negative somehow), and more power is considered a "loss" (in which case the ability would be... strengthened?).

 

Sorry for the ramblings. Any relevant theories would be great, though!

Edited May 26, 2015 by yurisses

[Shadowspren he/him]

In think I would have have to effect the amount of the stored attribute actually reaches the person. If they tap into their pewterminds, 90%  or something of the strength would actually reach them and 10% would be lost. But more likely it would just be the speed at which they could tap into their stores. Feruchemists can't tap other people's stores, since Hemalurgy is taking someone else's stores it would make sense that it might be harder for the unnatural feruchemy to bond to the person and thus would make it harder for them to use.

 

In the WoA when Sazed fights Marsh; there is obviously a big surprise factor which is why Marsh doesn't react fast enough to stop Sazed and the only reason Sazed lost was because he ran out of speed. But would it also make sense that Marsh couldn't react fast enough because it took more time to tap into his steelmind? 

[natc]

Would Marsh even have a steelmind at that point?

Feruchemy spikes were rare before the end of the world started and Marsh went full murderer on us. Most inquisitors had bare necessities like gold feruchemy if that.

And Inquisitors can compound properly so it shouldn't be too slow at the very least. Steel doesn't improve your reaction time anyway.

[Guest]

My feeling about the "power level" of Feruchemy is that the more powerful you are the finer your control is.

 

Originally, I thought that it would manifest in "steps" that became finer and finer, so a low power Feruchemist could store abilities in 10% "units" (10% or weight or 20% of weight, but not 15%). Meanwhile, a high power Feruchemist could store in 1% "units" (Eg: 1% or 2%, but not 1.5%). In all cases, Feruchemists could store 100%.

I've since revised that, since rigid steps don't seem to fit the natural nature of the magic.

 

I now think that higher power = less fluctuation. But without a WoB or an in-book experiment, this is pure guessing...

So this is what the in-book experiment would look like: 2 Feruchemists, 1 high power 1 low power, each weighing 200lbs, are put on a scale.

If I'm right, when both are asked to reduce their weight to 100lbs the high power feruchemist's weight hovers around 100, staying between 96 and 103, while the low power one fluctuates between 87 and 126.

A similar result would happen when they try to increase their weight to 300lbs.