Lightweaving, AonDor and Yolen

[Adamir he/him]

I received my copy of Words of Radiance yesterday, and have reached Chapter 8 so far; meaning that my assumptions may be incorrect, as to not having finished the book. But, looking at the Ars Arcanum section for Lightweaving, I noticed a reference to Yolen, with the words 'This is the most similar ability to the original Yolish variant'.

 

This makes me wonder; is all illusion based Investiture focused around the same magic system? Perhaps its just different variations on Yolish lightweaving, in the same way that different Mistings/Ferrings all use the same magic system, just different portions of it. This would mean that there would be a link between Surgebinding and AonDor, as both have illusion magic capabilities (AonDor is referred to in the same extract; or it could be referring to Forgery).

 

In that case, though, why is a Nahel bond required for Surgebinding, but no equivalent required for AonDor/Forgery? If we assume that there is an Investiture requirement to use these magic systems, then the Shaod could qualify - for now, I'm going to assume the Ars Arcanum was referring to AonDor, not Forgery. If the magic systems are linked, that would mean one of four things

 

• There were Spren, or a similar entity type, on Yolen, who could create a Nahel-type bond
• A small portion/the entirety of Yolen is born with innate Investiture, like Breath on Nalthis
• There is some sort of Shardic event, similar to the Shaod, that imbues someone with Investiture on Yolen
• Investiture is passed through bloodlines on Yolen, like Allomancy and Feruchemy

 

What we need to know, however, is the exact methods by which this magic works. Can only the people the Lightweaver intends to see observe the illusion? Or can anyone see it? If the former, Lightweaving works by altering the mind, in the same way as Soothing and Rioting; this could potentially bring Allomancy into the theory. But, as Shallan unconsciously used Lightweaving and nearby sailors saw it when even she was unaware, Lightweaving clearly alters light instead of thought patterns. This means that Allomancy is not a branch of Yolish Lightweaving.

 

For AonDor, it seems to be the same thing - Raoden does not focus on who he wants to see the illusion. Meaning that, overall, the two magic systems function similarly. This could support the idea that both are just variations on Yolish Lightweaving.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Adamir

[Blaze1616 he/him]

This makes me wonder; is all illusion based Investiture focused around the same magic system?

 

In short, yes. Brandon has a set of unifying laws of magic that bind all Cosmere magics together. So any light based magics would be illusion, etc.

 

Also, given you bring three different worlds together, two of which are separately published and the other isn't, this should have been posted in Cosmere Theories. Just a friendly reminder   Hopefully a mod can move this?

[Moogle]

I've moved this to Cosmere Theories.

 

As to this: I would think that while we will find plenty of similarities between systems, they're not all "one" system. They're just using similar principles. Sort of like the difference between a telephone and a cellphone. But it is an idea that could be explored further.

[Arook he/him]

Hmmmm I wonder if there is any illusion based magic on Scadrial that can do more than create shadows of peoples possible selves. Enjoy the book by the way.

[skaa he/him]

As to this: I would think that while we will find plenty of similarities between systems, they're not all "one" system. They're just using similar principles. Sort of like the difference between a telephone and a cellphone. But it is an idea that could be explored further.

Given that Investiture in general seems to involve a certain particle, this suggests that all manifestations of Investiture can be unified into a single system describing the behavior of that particle.

Investiture's ability to be shaped by intent (especially the Intent of god-level beings like the Shards) is what allows for the variety of powers we see in the Cosmere. So even though the illusion magic on Yolen and that on Roshar are similar, there are differences (e.g. how they are accessed) due to different Intents.

[Adamir he/him]

Investiture's ability to be shaped by intent (especially the Intent of god-level beings like the Shards) is what allows for the variety of powers we see in the Cosmere. So even though the illusion magic on Yolen and that on Roshar are similar, there are differences (e.g. how they are accessed) due to different Intents.

By that logic, that the Shards' intent can create the magic system, it could be possible that illusion-based magic is a direct attempt by the Shards to copy Yolish lightweaving (if we assume that the original Shardholders all came from Yolen).

[skaa he/him]

By that logic, that the Shards' intent can create the magic system, it could be possible that illusion-based magic is a direct attempt by the Shards to copy Yolish lightweaving (if we assume that the original Shardholders all came from Yolen).

 

Well, the thing is that it's not only the Shard's Intent that matters. The Shardworld (which, like everything else in the Cosmere, also has a Cognitive aspect, and therefore an ability for intent) somehow also affects how Investiture behaves.

 

Is Hemalurgy dead? No, not at all. It, like the other two powers, was not created by Ruin or Preservation, but by the natural state of the world and its interaction with the gods who created it. It still requires the same method of creation, but very few people are aware of how it works.

 

(source)

 

So certain parts of the magic on each Shardworld do not depend on the Shards themselves, but rather on certain properties of the planet. I've theorized before that each Shardworld is Spiritually attuned to a particular Essence, meaning they would naturally prefer manifestations of Investiture on them to have echoes of a particular Essence, but I don't have conclusive evidence for that theory yet.

Edited May 27, 2015 by skaa

[Odium's_Shard]

By that logic, that the Shards' intent can create the magic system, it could be possible that illusion-based magic is a direct attempt by the Shards to copy Yolish lightweaving (if we assume that the original Shardholders all came from Yolen).

 

By intent, I think that Skaa meant more along the lines of Intent. Referencing Skaa's own (brilliant) L-theory (which is a bit of a heavy read to just leave as that) he theorised that the consciousnesses (and hence desires, will, thoughts etc.) of those who took up the Shards are so saturated by the original emotion or driving force of the aspect of Adonalsium's original mind they represent (Odium, Honour, Endowment, etc.) that they are really quite unable to hold much of their own intent or will that does not align with their respective 'attribute', and this overall Intent has a large effect on the workings of their magic system.

 

But Skaa is also right in saying that the kind of Shardworld this is playing out on also has quite a large effect, for example on Scadrial something about the metals and the makeup of Scadrial (whether its abundance or importance of metals) caused the magic systems of Preservation and Ruin (which kind of follow the Intents of the two shards, with Hemalurgic decay being an aspect of Ruin) to be so firmly based around metals.

 

The way that Investiture interacts with the Shardworld and the inhabitants affects the forms the magic systems take, but the Investiture originally comes from a Shard whose Intent also twists the magic slightly to be sort of in line with their Intent (e.g. the system of Breaths is very Endowment-related). 

 

The concept that Lightweaving from Yolen is mirrored in other magic systems is very interesting, however. Skaa himself suggested that perhaps Lightweaving and its forms was used by Adonalsium to create consciousness across the Cosmere, or to make himself godly in the first place.

 

I think it depends on how you define Lightweaving... if it is to take power from the Spiritual Realm and twist it using your own intent or imagination and power to create some effect in the Physical Realm, whether that is illusion or reanimated puppet or a reversal of the gravitational pull of Roshar, then I would parry that that would pretty much define any Investiture-based magic in the Cosmere.

 

If Lightweaving was the original manipulation of Investiture, there have since been other variations (which you could label as mere variations) that enable many other effects, gravity defying or biologically revitalising or otherwise, which I would argue are now so separate (even if they originally evolved from Yolish Lightweaving) to be classed as other 'species', or systems, as it were.

 

But an interesting and relevant point nonetheless.

 

Odium's_Shard

[Adamir he/him]

Absurdly long answer I (Adamir) am not going to actually quote due to length

If I could provide infinite upvotes, I would.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Adamir