Hemalurgic theft of age? Can you and who would you spike with it

[Arook]

So I was thinking about this and, with atium can you steal old age? Stealing youth is possible clearly but, can you steal the old off someone and what effect would that have on them. The idea being that they live through the spiking of course.

 

Now if you can who in the cosmere would you suddenly make really old via a spike or two.

[Guest]

I don't think "Old" is a thing you can steal, as it's simply the state of lacking the resource of "time left to live". You can only steal a resource someone has.

 

It's just like "Hot" and "Cold". In Physics, "Cold" does not exist, there's just "Hot", "Less Hot", "More Hot", "a Lot Less Hot" etc. As a result, a Feruchemist can only store "body heat" not "body cold"

(Before anyone jumps down my throat, I'm aware no Physicist would ever use the term "hot" in an professional setting)

[Arook]

The only reason I thought it might be possible is that age is something that is a constantly increasing thing on a person. Always going up so the record of it is stored somewhere. Can you steal that record? Otherwise I agree with your statement.

 

Also it is not stored as time to live, so much as how long you have lived total and what you should be for that age. Hence why the lord ruler did not immediately die and turn to dust when his bracers were removed.

 

 

Edit note: edited for poor writing.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Arook

[Kurkistan]

Also it not stored as time to live so much as how long you have lived and what you should be for that age. Hence why the lord ruler did not immediately die and turn to dust when the bracers were removed.

 

I'll note for the record that I've historically been of the opinion that the "Age" that Feruchemical atium stores is more properly named "Youth" or "Vitality".

[Arook]

I'll note for the record that I've historically been of the opinion that the "Age" that Feruchemical atium stores is more properly named "Youth" or "Vitality".

 

Youth not vitality would be the most accurate term though maybe still not accurate enough but, youth to off set the old of your soul is the best way to describe the process.

 

Vitality would be more appropriate term for a gold feruchemist's increased health or even a person burning pewter.

 

As a side question anyone know weather SDNA and a spirit web are the same or is there some difference? Also are those a persons soul or just a part of the soul?

[Kurkistan]

As a side question anyone know weather SDNA and a spirit web are the same or is there some difference? Also are those a persons soul or just a part of the soul?

 

The same.

[Arook]

The same.

Thought so just checking.

[Turos]

'Spiritweb' is more accommodating for the giant predatory spiders in the spirit realm.

[Comatose]

The main issue I see with the original theory is that as far as we know (at least in the time of the Final Empire) Hemalurgy required a death in order for the spike to acquire a charge.  Now, Sazed may have changed this in current times, but it is difficult to say how this would work given how little we know about modern Hemalurgy.  

 

Otherwise, I agree with what has been said about old age being the absence of whatever atium-feruchemy stores, making it likely an un-stealable resource.  

[Arook]

So Coppermind has this saying they do not have to die.

http://coppermind.net/wiki/Hemalurgy#cite_note-qa-689-28-2

See as the Lord ruler got older he needed more youth to burn. So yes feruchemy and allomancy used atium to store/burn stored youth. Hemalurgy how ever can use atium to steal any attribute allomantic, feruchemic or human. Being old is a human attribute and as such should be something that can be stolen if you know the bind point. The Lord ruler only knew a few bind points.

[natc]

It's not that dying is required and more that lethally sized spikes are often used for supposed efficiency, IIRC, so they end up with a gaping hole in them and bleed out. The extent of the spiritual damage alone is not necessarily lethal, but I imagine still dangerous.

[Guest]

The main issue I see with the original theory is that as far as we know (at least in the time of the Final Empire) Hemalurgy required a death in order for the spike to acquire a charge.  Now, Sazed may have changed this in current times, but it is difficult to say how this would work given how little we know about modern Hemalurgy.  

 

Otherwise, I agree with what has been said about old age being the absence of whatever atium-feruchemy stores, making it likely an un-stealable resource.  

 

The deaths had more to do with technology level and ease of use than with necessity. There's a WoB that sizes Bindpoints right down to the size of a nerve, so a tiny filament of metal is all that's really needed.

Also, I suspect that by TLR's time Ati was so consumed by Ruin's Intent that he WANTED death to be the result.