Brandon's Book 2 reading

[hoser he/him]

I disagree personally. I think it's the Soulcaster and doubt that a vault could hold a spren.

Is personal disagreement when we disagree, but don't have strong evidence  ? 

 

But why would she call it a monster if she didn't know her father had it?  They found the soulcaster on her father after his death, not knowing he had it until then.  I think from the reading she knows a bit more about the "monster" in the safe, so that she wouldn't mistake it for the soulcaster at her fathers death.

This!

 

And the use of the word "monster".  I think a monster is a being with activity.  Taravangian calls Szeth's sword a monstrosity, not a monster.  If we think the young Shallan doesn't use the big word monstrosity, she could still think "monstrous thing". 

 

Occam's razor says that it is the soulcaster or gems, because they we know they glow and they'd fit in a safe.  But for me personally there are too many discrepancies. 

 

My question is: what glows, is active and fits in a safe?  The only thing we've seen are people infused, but I doubt the safe is that big.  I think it is something new. 

[Windrunner he/him]

Is personal disagreement when we disagree, but don't have strong evidence  ?

Not really necessary. We don't have too much evidence either way, and when something was pointed out to me that contradicted my belief, I admitted my error. Spren doesn't make any more sense than Soulcaster did, considering spren regularly crawl through the ground, so I doubt a safe would do anything

 

And the use of the word "monster".  I think a monster is a being with activity.  Taravangian calls Szeth's sword a monstrosity, not a monster.  If we think the young Shallan doesn't use the big word monstrosity, she could still think "monstrous thing". 

 

Occam's razor says that it is the soulcaster or gems, because they we know they glow and they'd fit in a safe.  But for me personally there are too many discrepancies. 

 

My question is: what glows, is active and fits in a safe?  The only thing we've seen are people infused, but I doubt the safe is that big.  I think it is something new.

I was wondering if it could possibly be a Shardblade. There's something wrong with Shallan's mother's eyes, which could be that they were burned out by a Shardblade. On the other hand, the Shardblades don't glow anymore, and haven't since the Recreance. I'm not sure if the Honorblades glow, maybe someone found one?

If you want something truly without strong evidence, I'll call out Dawnshard

[hoser he/him]

It seems I've offended.  It was not my intention to be offensive.  I can see where it may have seemed to you that I was piling on.  I actually admired your phrasing and flattered it in the sincerest way later in my post. 

Not really necessary. We don't have too much evidence either way, and when something was pointed out to me that contradicted my belief, I admitted my error.

I had not seen your latest post at the time I was writing (looking up Taravangian's exact words took a little time).  And, technically, no, you didn't admit your error.  You acknowledged a fair point and said that you stood behind it not being a spren, but you did not admit to having made a mistake in the post that I had not read. 

 

Spren doesn't make any more sense than Soulcaster did, considering spren regularly crawl through the ground, so I doubt a safe would do anything

 

I was wondering if it could possibly be a Shardblade. There's something wrong with Shallan's mother's eyes, which could be that they were burned out by a Shardblade. On the other hand, the Shardblades don't glow anymore, and haven't since the Recreance. I'm not sure if the Honorblades glow, maybe someone found one?

I "personally" agree that there was a Shardblade present.  I "personally" think that it is "currently (at the end of book 1)" bound to Shallan.  Although I suppose it might be bound to Amaram also. 

 

Why would someone put a Shardblade in a safe?  Just pick it up and drop it.  Can't be stolen, ten heartbeats away, so I agree that it is probably not a Shardblade.     

 

Ah, the Honorblades.  I doubt they are buried under a mountain of crem on the Shattered Plains.  But why haven't we heard about them.  They are powerful and provide evidence of the Heralds' duplicity.  I am sure that Brandon is doing something interesting with them. The Radiants could have found them and put them somewhere safe, I suppose, but that seems kinda boring.   

 

The Ghostbloods could have them, but I doubt they would give one to Shallan's father. Really, I think if any Vorin entity had had them for 4500 years, we would have heard of it.  The theological implications are tremendous, and Shardblades are really the foundation of the nobility.  If some were more powerful and behaved differently, it would be known.  I don't see how they can be active in Vorin society.   

 

If you want something truly without strong evidence, I'll call out Dawnshard

Really, I thought your phrasing was perfect and was praising it.  You had a theory that you hadn't fully examined and were attaching a disclaimer.  I will apologize explicitly if you want. 

 

Possibly a Dawnshard, but what do you think of the idea that it should be active to be called a monster?  I think the Dawnshards require an active entity to be used, not unlike the Shards of Adnauseum. 

[Windrunner he/him]

All right, we'll call it even I was perhaps being a tad oversensitive, I just got back from camping and am rather tired.

 

You make some awesome points though. I honestly have no idea what could be in that safe. It's interesting, because Shallan refers to it and herself both as monsters. The only shaky idea I have, is that if it was a Shardblade that Shallan somehow got a hold of, maybe her father made her place it intentionally in there so she couldn't summon it. So far as we know, there's no way to mentally tell a Shardblade to vanish without picking it up. But again, this suffers from a few flaws, considering that Lord Davar could just take the Shardblade and bind it to himself, and then she wouldn't be able to summon it.

[Meg]

I "personally" agree that there was a Shardblade present.  I "personally" think that it is "currently (at the end of book 1)" bound to Shallan.  Although I suppose it might be bound to Amaram also. 

 

Uhm, if the monster was a shardblade -- would it be not far to seek that it's the one Helaran (sp?). 

 

(That thought occurred to me when I read this, although I'm fairly sure there's no shardblade in the tresor.) 

 

Edit: 

Re-reading Shallan's flashback something strikes me: 

 

 

"The crystals fine, will glow sublime.

So sleep my loved one dear."

They passed father's safe on the wall. It glowed brightly, light streaming from the cracks around the closed front. A monster was inside.

 

I might give this too much credit (as for BS is known for his subtle hints): The crystels glow sublime ... the .. safe glowed brightly ...

That would hint for a gemstone inside the tresor or -- as Hoser said -- something glowing we don't know yet. 

Edited August 4, 2013 by Meg

[hoser he/him]

Uhm, if the monster was a shardblade -- would it be not far to seek that it's the one Helaran (sp?). 

We don't know that Helaran had a Shardblade unless he was the Shardbearer Kaladin killed, do we?  If he was the Shardbearer Kaladin killed, then it is bound to Amaram. 

[Meg]

No, we don't know yet. And I don't believe the glowing thing to be a Shardblade, but if it was, then it hadn't been bound to Amaran at the time of Shallan's flashback. Is this understandable?

[hoser he/him]

No, we don't know yet. And I don't believe the glowing thing to be a Shardblade, but if it was, then it hadn't been bound to Amaran at the time of Shallan's flashback. Is this understandable?

Yeah, in Shallan's flashback, it's long before Amaram got it.  But neither of us think it's a Shardblade anyway.  Shardblades are boring anyway.  This could be something new and interesting. 

[deddinty]

The only thing we've encountered that I think could possibly glow through a safe would be a gemheart, or a very large polished gem.  That doesn't seem quite right though as unless her father got rid of it between the flashback scene and his death, such a thing would have solved many of their money problems.  

 

Of course there's another explanation for a gem disappearing that makes sense as well: her father used it as the stone for his soulcasting the quarries.  The bigger the effect the bigger the gem needed correct? So he'd either need a ton of small gems...or a very big glowing one to make such quarries.  That would assume the flashback is a ways before her father's death, since he'd have to soulcast the gem or lose it before his death. As for monster, people do call something massive a "monster".  With the death involved in the scene, perhaps there was a fight over the object as well...

 

I personally don't think that's quite right though, I tend to think it's something we haven't seen yet.  I also doubt it's the black orb, as it wouldn't be likely to glow through the safe.  Similarly with shards of any sort.

 

And if we're getting into the possibility of Heleran's shards, I would say if he is the one Kaladin killed, they weren't family shards, they were given to him by the ghostbloods to kill Amaram.  They gave her father the soulcaster (assumedly) so it's likely they have shardblades and plate to give for such a mission. 

Edited August 5, 2013 by deddinty

[Miyabi She/Her]

I have a few little theories here.

Gavilar - I think he probably wanted to create something similar to the Orders, feeling that such a thing would benefit society and make the world a better place for everyone. Perhaps he had invited the Parshendi to help in this process.

The Old Gods - The Alethi practically worship the Heralds as if they were Gods without directly calling them so, in order to not upset the Almighty. (Superstitious crack pots.) I would guess here that the Unmade and the Voidbringers were an analogous force fighting on Odium's side of the fight. It would make sense that Odium used tools and weapons created by one of the other Shards, as he wouldn't want to create anything.

The Parshendi - The Parshendi don't want the "Old Gods" to come back. They seem to know the legends of the Desolations better than the Alethi people do. I would assume that they suffered huge casualties along with the humans. They don't want to start that war over again and so they avoid things that may start the war. When they hear of him wanted to recreate the Orders they decide he needs to be assassinated in order to prevent events occurring which might being back the Heralds and the Unmade, and with them the KR and the Voidbringers.

Stormform - This is a new development for them. I would assume by its name that it is related to Surgebinding of some kind. They all seemed to revere Kaladin when he was using his powers. Perhaps it is from this observation that the Parshendi were able to determine what type of Spren was needed to create Stormform. Seems logical to me, since they have been trying for a long time to discover new forms and it's only after this occurs that they are able to discover it. Perhaps they will learn more forms as more humans bond with Spren.

New Forms - The discovery of new forms could be an idle thing that the Parshendi don't see as being related to the KR or the Voidbringers and see it more as a scholarly task and a way to end the war they are currently in. They would want to be careful so that they didn't start forming the Voidbringer Orders again in order to avoid the Heralds and the Unmade to show up and start a Desolation.

TLDR; The Parshendi do everything they do in order to avoid a Desolation, because they don't want that many of their own people to die and are researching new forms to end the current war with the Alethi.

That's a truly excellent point, Inkthinker, I'm glad you brought it up. Here's one candidate who I was thinking for the Parshendi gods. Perhaps the Unmade? If they're the eqivalent of the Heralds, that's pretty freaking scary. And what happened to them? If they've become trapped, or imprisoned somewhere or how, perhaps Gavilar figured out how to access them, without understanding what he was doing. Maybe he's even mistaken them for the Heralds, he was devout. He could have told the Parshendi, "Hey, guess what I figured out how to do?" and the Parshendi, knowing the full import, promptly lost it. Although, where did you see that they regret their actions? I hadn't picked up on that.

In regards to this I think perhaps the cycle of the Oathpact may also bind the Unmade in the same way it does the Heralds and the fact that the Heralds didn't continue the Oathpact perhaps the Unmade are trapped in the same hellish hole the Heralds went to between desolations.

Edited September 10, 2013 by Miyabi