Brandon's Unifying Theory of Magic

[Earendil]

AonDor is the only system that can "directly" hurt living things.

I'm not sure if this is significant.

Well, unless you're a hero-level Allomancer, but those are exceptions that prove the rule.

I don't know that I agree with this (at least, I don't know that I think that AonDor can "directly" hurt things either--have we seen it happen?)  My counter example would be soulcasting-- Jasnah caused one man to burst into flames, and two others to turn to smoke (numbers may be wrong, but the idea is right).

[Munin]

(Naturally, this begs the question what the focus--or focuses--there are on Roshar, which I couldn't imagine to answer)

Heartbeats, perhaps?

I'm pretty tired right now, but I seem to recall something about Szeth needing to hold his breath to slow the loss of Stormlight. Now, I'm no expert on human physiology, but I assume that holding your breath affects heart rate in some way.

[Andrew the Great]

Yes, but I think that reference in particular was pointing out that humans leak stormlight when they breath. It doesn't have anything to do with heartbeats.

That said, that doesn't mean that it's not a possible focus. Though I still think Stormlight more likely.

[leinton]

I don't think the stormlight is the focus. Stormlight is the energy used, more like the Dor than the aons. I think the focus likely has something to do with the individual lashings, which so far are all based around a force (basic lashing is based around weight, for example). I'm betting that we don't know what the focus is yet because it isn't a question that the characters in the book have asked yet.

The only thing I could think of that might be the focus is the spren. So far, Sveth is the only one we have seen using the stormlight without a fabrial that doesn't have an obvious connection with the spren.

[Link Von Kelsier Harvey]

Haha. Sveth.

[Puck]

On Sel however, it seems a bit harder to identify and the theory breaks down. Elantrian magic seems to be entirely random, and we don't know enough about Drahkor magic to be able to tell how they learn it. Is there a spiritual genetic mutation forced by some unknown source? We know that Elantians are more likely to transform the closer they are to the city. Maybe Elantris itself has some sort of spiritual radiation that forces genetic mutation over time much like nuclear radiation can do.

I'm not sure that's the case, Squallor. The Shaod is not more likely to take those closer to the city, it's more likely to take those of Aonic heritage. Those taken who weren't Arelenes were either of mixed-descent with the Arelenes (eg - Galladon) or genetic first cousins to them (the occasional Teo has been known to be taken).

[[EDIT: just reread the Ch 55 annotations and you are partially right:

Elantrians have to come from the lands near Arelon. Teoish people can be taken, but only if they're in Arelon at the time.

So part of it is the geography. I apologize]]

Also, I wouldn't say that the Shaod is random at all. In fact, all "automated" forms of power-granting (for lack of a better word) seem to have some underlying structure. Snapping has the rule of 16%, Returning has... something, and the Shaod only happens at night. Consistencies like this can't be disregarded. I think that very little about Brandon's Unifying Theory of Magic allows for complete randomness.

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Out of  curiosity, is anyone planning on re-reading any of Brandon's earlier stuff anytime soon? Lists of Rules for magic systems that Brandon mentions (but only ones that don't turn out to be made up by the characters, like the "you can't push metals that pierce someone's skin" rule in mistborn) would be extremely useful here, but I don't have any of Brandon's books with me except Way of Kings.

I'm going through Elantris at the moment, in order to beef up the Coppermind (w/ references, links, page #s, cited quotations - I want it to be the authoritative wiki on all things Cosmere, so it's taking a while).

[happyman]

I agree with Puck.  I suspect there is a good reason that people who become Elantrians become Elantrians, and that it's not completely random, or even random at all.  Much more likely, it's due to a confluence of complicated and interacting but deterministic factors.  It is known that with enough complicated influences, it can be very difficult for humans to determine what the cause is, enough for it to seem random.

[Andrew the Great]

The question is, then, can we figure it out, given the same information?

I'd say this will likely get easier when Elantris 2 comes out.

I don't think the stormlight is the focus. Stormlight is the energy used, more like the Dor than the aons. I think the focus likely has something to do with the individual lashings, which so far are all based around a force (basic lashing is based around weight, for example). I'm betting that we don't know what the focus is yet because it isn't a question that the characters in the book have asked yet.

The only thing I could think of that might be the focus is the spren. So far, Sveth is the only one we have seen using the stormlight without a fabrial that doesn't have an obvious connection with the spren.

I see stormlight as being akin to the metals in Mistborn. The metals aren't the actual source of the energy, even though they control what you do with it and have uses outside allomancy. Stormlight has uses outside of the magic systems we've seen so far, such as illumination, but it actually works in almost exactly the same way as the metals do. Think about it - in mistborn, when you run out of metal, you can no longer continue to use allomancy. In WoK, when you run out of Stormlight, you can no longer use magic (or at least the systems that we know of).

Similarly, in Mistborn, the metals control what you do with the energy they allow you to access. In WoK, the Stormlight is what allows the magic users to control what they do with the energy they have access to - it isn't the energy itself. I'd imagine that the way people get stronger and faster when they hold stormlight is also a result of the connection it provides to energy, much as Pewter does in Mistborn.

So no, I really can't explain how Stormlight would work as a focus in terms of the Aons. But when compared to the metals, it actually makes a lot of sense. I also think this is probably a better comparison, since most of the magic we've seen so far in WoK seems more akin to allomancy than AonDor. Though there's still a connection, I think these two are more closely related.

I may also change my opinion several times when we get into some of the specifics of soulcasting and other magic systems on Roshar, of course, but for now, I'm sticking with Stormlight.

[Zas678]

I got something. From rereading the Goodreads Q&A, I learned something important. There are four terms for subunits of Adonalsium.

1. Magic Users- This one isn't specifically mentioned by Brandon, but I think it should be mentioned. This person usually has a fraction of a shard in them that allows them to connect to Adonalsium's power, often called the "power of creation" (in HoA Q&A).

2. Splinter- This group includes Awakened, and Brandon doesn't mention a whole lot about them. I believe that Lerasium-Mistborns would also follow under this area. These people have a lot more power to them then the Magic Users.

3. Sliver- Slivers are people who hold or have held a part of a Shard. This group includes Rashek, Vin, and Kelsier (he picks it up after Leras dies, but before Vin embraces the mists).

4. Shard- These people hold one of the (assumed) 16 shards of Adonalsium that include some of the following: Odium, Cultivation, Preservation, Endowment, and Ruin. They are compared to Greek gods in terms of power (aka, not God all-knowing).

Oh! And Brandon said that there's only one shard behind Awakening. "It is unlikely that I will use this magic system in a different book because it is distinctly tied to that particular Shard."

Although many of us assumed that, it's nice to have it confirmed.

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/264132-q-a-with-brandon-sanderson?page=2

EDIT- After reading Andrew's thoughts, I decided to look a little deeper to see what I could find. Here is the revised Splinter definition

2.1 Splinter- This group includes Awakened. These people have a "touch of the divine in them". 

"As Lightsong has a splinter of divine nature inside him, he is able to interpret the paintings

[Andrew the Great]

I fail to see how magic users are in any way different than Splinters under your classification system, since the idea of Splinters is that they're fractions of shards. Aside from that, I have no gripes with anything.

Lerasium as a Splinter-creating substance makes sense. After all, it's part of the Shard's body. When ingesting it, a person is actually ingesting part of the shard. They become a Splinter. (Though admittedly I have no idea why atium wouldn't work this way as well).

Magic users who inherit the magic via bloodline, etc, however, are most likely just receiving dilutions of that same original piece of the shard. This is why magic users aren't as powerful after several generations. They'd still be splinters under the classification system.

I'm assuming that when we say a Sliver is someone who's held a part of a Shard, we're talking about a rather significant part, yes? Like, say, the majority of it? Otherwise there's again no difference from a Splinter except that it includes previous holders as well.

[Zas678]

Yeah I agree. A Sliver holds the majority of the Shard, and seems to be able to communicate with others in much the same ways as Shards can.

[Chaos]

Intuitively, I don't feel that "Sliver" holds much greater power than "Splinters". That doesn't seem quite right.