Metals And Mists: Questions On Allomantic Fundamentals

[Meg]

@ Skaa:
Thanks again for your explanation. And excuse me for my bad wording. I should have written "adjusting" or a similar word instead of correcting (though if I'm definitely wrong I appreciate correcting too). It's around midnight here and I won't answer now for the sake of more clarity.


 

Okay, but that's Ruin's Shardpool, not Preservation's. I'm talking about Pure Shardpool water here.

The Well of Ascension is not Ruin's Shardpool. Where did you get this information? Ruin's Shardpool are the Pits of Hatsin.¹

[Moogle]

...

 

Thanks for your thoughts. I don't know if I quite agree with some of them, but it was interesting to read and think about things. I particularly liked the idea of Mistborn being able to use Allomancy without metals but with very little power. It has parallels to Roshar, where the people of the planet are particularly healthy due to the massive amounts of Investiture in the environment. I'm not sure I'm convinced it's possible, but it's not immediately obviously wrong.

 

I have a few things to comment on:

• The planet is important in determining magic systems. It is not solely based on the Shard.
• The issue with the Feruchemy explanation is that non-Feruchemists can burn metalminds (if the Feruchemist who filled them plays with his identity). It is clearly not dependent on pathways in your spirit, or if it is then everyone has them.
• All Shards can fuel all the magics, and Preservation and Ruin were equally good at fueling Feruchemy.
• Fabrials function via imprisoned spren, so your "artifical Spiritweb" thing might not be too far off. It's unclear how spren work exactly.

[laxrulz777 he/him]

 

Thanks for your thoughts. I don't know if I quite agree with some of them, but it was interesting to read and think about things. I particularly liked the idea of Mistborn being able to use Allomancy without metals but with very little power. It has parallels to Roshar, where the people of the planet are particularly healthy due to the massive amounts of Investiture in the environment. I'm not sure I'm convinced it's possible, but it's not immediately obviously wrong.

 

I have a few things to comment on:

• The planet is important in determining magic systems. It is not solely based on the Shard.

I think there are 3 ways to interpret this quote. 

1) The planet is the sole driver of the shape of the magic and the shard is the power source (i.e. Honor/Cultivation switch places with Harmony and the denizens of the planet don't notice a difference...)

2) The shard drives the powers but the planet drives the way they manifest (i.e. Honor/Cultivation switch with Ruin/Preservation and now the burning of the metals gives surgebinding powers and stormlight gives the allomantic powers)

3) The shard and planet form a unique composite (i.e. Honor/Cultivation switch with Ruin/Preservation and now we get some 100% different looking powers... 

There's also a fourth possibility (really 3b) and that's that the shards also interact with each other in strange wonderful ways (Odium comes to Scadrial... Allomancy/Hemallury/Feruchemy are gone and replaced by something wholly different like in #3 above).

 

 

• The issue with the Feruchemy explanation is that non-Feruchemists can burn metalminds (if the Feruchemist who filled them plays with his identity). It is clearly not dependent on pathways in your spirit, or if it is then everyone has them.

I thought he was coy about this one. Now I need to dig up that WoB. There's a lot we don't know/understand about what Harmony did to the global sDNA of the populace. Prior to his merger of the shards, we didn't have these twinborn mistings. Also (and I haven't read alloy in a long time so I might be wrong about this) my recollection is that there are no "single" mistings (or at least there weren't in the book) and there's also the "fracturing" of feruchemy (all feruchemists in mistborn were "full" feruchemists...  we never saw or heard reference to a feruchemist who was limited to one metal). I think Sazed did something (maybe intentionally... maybe unintentionally) to the sDNA of the people that may be significant to this question. 

 

 

 

• All Shards can fuel all the magics, and Preservation and Ruin were equally good at fueling Feruchemy.

 

To be entirely accurate, he said "both" not "all" but I take your point. I think what he meant is that, theoretically, preservation could have been supercharging Sazed through the mists if he'd chosen. One interesting question this raises, however, is who is fueling Wit's allomancy in stormlight? I think there's intricacies here we A) don't understand and might be self-contradictory. Brandon's created something incredibly intricate and complicated. There's bound to be contradictions (that we'll, in true fan boy fashion, find explanations for

 

But in that quote, Brandon also said, "But this rarely comes up in the books, as it required expending power in a way that the gods were hesitant to do." Which is why I think he was referring to the direct fueling like he did with Vin (or theoretically could have done with Sazed as I mentioned above). This is actually making me think that Breath/Stormlight aren't directly FROM the shards but maybe are natural and the shards presence give them (more?) power. This was all straight in my head 48 hours ago.... curse you Moogle

[natc]

What do you mean by "single" Misting, exactly?

And fractured Ferrings and twinborn never existed because as far as we know TLR has been preventing crossbreeding of allomantic and feruchemical bloodlines for the duration of the Final Empire with the Terris breeding programs. It's less that it was or wasn't possible before and more that it doesn't matter when there are no Terris allomancers or non-Terris feruchemists to cause the Ferring and Twinborn states in the first place.

[Moogle]

I think there are 3 ways to interpret this quote. 

1) The planet is the sole driver of the shape of the magic and the shard is the power source (i.e. Honor/Cultivation switch places with Harmony and the denizens of the planet don't notice a difference...)

2) The shard drives the powers but the planet drives the way they manifest (i.e. Honor/Cultivation switch with Ruin/Preservation and now the burning of the metals gives surgebinding powers and stormlight gives the allomantic powers)

3) The shard and planet form a unique composite (i.e. Honor/Cultivation switch with Ruin/Preservation and now we get some 100% different looking powers... 

There's also a fourth possibility (really 3b) and that's that the shards also interact with each other in strange wonderful ways (Odium comes to Scadrial... Allomancy/Hemallury/Feruchemy are gone and replaced by something wholly different like in #3 above).

 

We know on Roshar that at least one of the magic systems, once set up, just sort of adds more Shards' spren to it as they come. I feel this soundly eliminates possibility #4, at least in some cases.

 

My theory for a long while has been that the planet serves to provide a focus, and the most significant parts of the planet serve to shape the powers developed. Ie. Scadrial has a super high concentration of metals relative to other planets, so the magics that arose there were based on metal, Roshar had a constant huricane, so the magic's power comes from it, etc.

 

My other big theory on this comes from Intent Meshing theory, which would predict that some magic systems change as you add more Shards into the mix and their Intents are compatible with other Shards. Also possible is that if a magic system is in place, it would refuse to change/those already with the sDNA for it get to keep those genes. Intent Meshing, unfortunately, is a theory with too much wiggleroom. You can't really pin down many solid predictions with it, which makes it kinda bad.

 

I thought he was coy about this one. Now I need to dig up that WoB. There's a lot we don't know/understand about what Harmony did to the global sDNA of the populace. Prior to his merger of the shards, we didn't have these twinborn mistings. Also (and I haven't read alloy in a long time so I might be wrong about this) my recollection is that there are no "single" mistings (or at least there weren't in the book) and there's also the "fracturing" of feruchemy (all feruchemists in mistborn were "full" feruchemists...  we never saw or heard reference to a feruchemist who was limited to one metal). I think Sazed did something (maybe intentionally... maybe unintentionally) to the sDNA of the people that may be significant to this question. 

 

Ask and ye shall receive: WoB on non-Feruchemists burning metalminds.

 

Mistings have an analogue with Feruchemists called Ferrings, who get one Feruchemical power. You can read about them in the Alloy of Law's list of powers.

 

To be entirely accurate, he said "both" not "all" but I take your point. I think what he meant is that, theoretically, preservation could have been supercharging Sazed through the mists if he'd chosen. One interesting question this raises, however, is who is fueling Wit's allomancy in stormlight? I think there's intricacies here we A) don't understand and might be self-contradictory. Brandon's created something incredibly intricate and complicated. There's bound to be contradictions (that we'll, in true fan boy fashion, find explanations for

 

All Shard's Investiture can fuel all magic systems. (Forgive me the paraphrased WoB, there's an actual transcribed WoB somewhere with basically the exact same thing said.) I think Preservation is still fueling Wit - Shards can teleport at will, so there'd be no issues with the power of Allomancy (stored in the Spiritual on Scadrial?) teleporting on over to Wit as he burns a metal. But yeah, that's confusing...

 

As to contradictions, Brandon is generally very good at being consistent. I wouldn't worry about that now. Sometimes he writes himself into a corner with no explanation (Pushing has friction and apparently he gave Peter a lot of trouble figuring out how to do the physics of that, same with time bubbles not having red/blueshift), but he tends to not do things that contradict him. The only notable exception are that some WoBs conflict - once something is made canon, it stays that way. (And of course, as I say that, I just realized he did some WoR retcons. :/)

 

But in that quote, Brandon also said, "But this rarely comes up in the books, as it required expending power in a way that the gods were hesitant to do." Which is why I think he was referring to the direct fueling like he did with Vin (or theoretically could have done with Sazed as I mentioned above). This is actually making me think that Breath/Stormlight aren't directly FROM the shards but maybe are natural and the shards presence give them (more?) power. This was all straight in my head 48 hours ago.... curse you Moogle

 

You're correct. Powering directly ala Vin->Elend is what he meant by fueling things. Regular Allomancy use does not weaken him.

 

Not sure on the Breath/Stormlight thing. I think they're 100% pure Investiture, so I don't see how a Shard could improve them, but maybe.

Edited March 7, 2015 by Moogle

[laxrulz777 he/him]

Back to the original question

 

 
The Metal Acts as a Filter like an Aon:
Okay, if the Investiture is "modulated" by the metal, then why can the mists provide a similar power? Are they creating metals in your stomach? If so, does powering Allomancy with other Investitures mean you need to filter them through a metal since they're unlikely to create metals on their own?

 

This model makes sense. It fits very well with AonDor, with how the specific shapes/resonance of your molecular structure can shape Investiture. Further supporting it is the idea of mechanical Allomancy, that you can get Allomantic effects without a human and purely through technology.

 

The Body Acts as a Filter

Okay, if the Ars Arcanum is right here, how is Compounding supposed to work? The trick is that the metal is modulating things, and you can change how the metal modulates by putting a Feruchemical charge. If your body is what is doing things, though, this shouldn't matter.

 

And this model makes sense, too - you've got yourself a conduit you can force Investiture through in your Spiritweb. This explains why Vin can feel her metal 'reserves' burst alight when she takes in the mists - there's well channeled grooves through her Spiritweb that the Investiture can be directed through. It is 'hardwired' in her Spiritweb, like the Ars Arcanum says.

 

A major consequence of the metals-as-Aons model is that is that Elantrians should be able to perform AonDor without drawing symbols in the air, simply by obtaining some gaseous Dor. I don't think they can, though. I would like any presented theories and ideas to explain why or why not Elantrians can use gaseous Dor without Aons to do AonDor.

 

Ultimately, this is probably a question for Brandon, but I hope someone can convince me on how this is supposed to work so there's no need to go crazy before someone asks him.

 

I think anyone with the proper pathways in their sDNA (Spirit Web) can do Allomancy/Ferruchemy (Hemallurgy sort of "acts upon you" so literally anyone can do it although, thus far, we've generally seen it acted upon allomancers so there may be a little bit more to it than that). We know that the metals (aside from Atium and Lerisium) are not Shardic. They're ordinary metals. We even have this:

 

Q:  If I were to try to Soulcast pewter, the way Shallan does with the blood in The Way of Kings, would it come out that an Allomancer be able to use it?
A:  You could create Allomantically viable metals, yes.
Q:  But is it automatic?
A:  I would say that the pure metals are, but the alloys are not.

 

So far so good. The world is filled with ambient Investiture waiting to be tapped in to. The metals are a catalytic element used to jumpstart (and, I think, multiply) the investiture used and create a manifested ability of some sort. Each metal is a catalyst for a different effect but the power is coming from either the ambient Investiture or from within the individual (it's not entirely clear). I think, (and this is where we get away from the canon a bit) that any individual with the right sDNA attunement could perform minutely small amounts of Allomancy (this isn't strictly required... you could interpret the metals as the spark plug that starts the combustion as well). 

 

Now, enter the mists. I don't think it's a backup system (personally, I think it's related to the Essences from Stormlight as we discussed in the other thread but you dont' have to buy into that for this to work). The mists bypass the need for the metals. In that "catalyst" paradigm, they simply provide a raw source of energy to tap into such that the need for a multiplicative catalyzing agent isn't necessary. In the "spark plug" paradigm, they are a either a source of power that's easier to "combust" (i.e. no need for a spark plug) or they effectively raise the "heat" so high that they also serve as a spark plug (a universal one for all powers).

 

Personally, I prefer the catalyzing paradigm (where everyone can do minutely small amounts of allomancy). I think it's more consistent with what we see (flaring and "metal reserves" based on the size of the metal) where the "spark plug" paradigm runs into some issues with that. i think it's also more consistent if you want to believe that Harmony didn't monkey with the system and Bendalloy was always there just undiscovered. Under the catalyzing agent paradigm, what Vin senses as her "metal reserves" is what's in her stomach. She is filled with the mist and doesn't notice another 5-21 additional reserves because she still didn't have those. She just knew, instinctually (allomancy is an "instinctual" magic) that she could utilize her powers.

 

I THINK all of the above is internally consistent. As to AonDor. I think that in AonDor's magic system, the forms explicitly drive the powers. It's not like the metals where there's an almost chemistry like "catalyst" reaction happening. It's more like the shapes interact with the various realms in a very specific way. I kind of assumed that the various forms that were made were "cutting a hole" in the realms to let power through and that the shape determined what happened.

 

Finally, we come to Compounding. We still don't know much about it. But I think it works like this. Specific metals are ready to accept certain traits (Gold getting Health) for example. We also know that it provides the catalyst (or spark) to see your past self. I think these are related in some ways. This actually makes sense because Gold doesn't JUST store "health"... it also stores "youth". I suspect we'd find that if Sazed's (pre-Harmony) gold stores were 100% gone and he lost an arm. If he later stored "health" in a new gold receptacle then tapped it, he couldn't get the arm back. So the "seeing past self" and the "health/youth" being stored are more closely related.

 

So when a Gold/Gold Twinborn stores his health and then burns it, he taps the metal mind for the youth but gets a heaping helping of allomantic affect mixed in. The result is that the youth restored is even more than what was put in. This works REALLY well for certain metals (Gold, Tin, Electrum)... it's rougher with some of the other ones (Bronze? how do Allomantic pulses and memories even interact?). Granted, this piece is a bit fuzzy but, I suspect, the whole idea of Compounding is a bit fuzzy (both to us, the characters and, I suspect, even Sanderson himself).

 

There's an alternative possibility and that's that you can compound in "either direction". Using allomancy on a gold metal mind gives more youth than you put into it. Maybe you could also use an Iron metal mind to Pull the crap out of something OR to make yourself super strong... maybe compounding lets you do both as an option?

[Moogle]

...

 

A few things:

• To summarize your position as I understand it, you think that there are pathways in the Spiritweb/something about the Spiritweb that causes the powers. The metals serve to give you the raw fuel (or multiply it), but don't themselves cause the powers. I like this, and it's my current headcanon. However, what you haven't done is reconcile the opposing WoBs. I guess you could say they're outright wrong? But there's an awful lot of them mentioning similar things here. In particular, this one from the OP:

  • The metal used in Allomancy is like a key or a doorway to the power that Allomancy actually uses. The metal acts as a filter, much as the Aons in Elantris do, to determine what the power actually does. However, if the metal is Feruchemically charged, then it will basically become a super-burst of Feruchemical power with no Allomantic effect. The Feruchemical charge acts as a filter as well as the metal, and changes what the power does.

• Your model doesn't explain Feruchemy to my satisfaction. If it's about the Spiritweb, Allomancers should not have a Feruchemist's Spiritweb, so I wouldn't expect a non-Feruchemist to be able to burn a metalmind and get an effect, and yet they do. Because of this, it implies the metal's structure itself causes the power like an Aon.
• Gold doesn't store youth, nor does it grant it. Miles was not immortal. Feruchemical atium does the youth thing, and Feruchemical gold specifically does not. (Edit: it appears we have a filter for f<Metal> now to change it to Feruchemical <metal>. How... wordy.)

Edited March 11, 2015 by Moogle

[laxrulz777 he/him]

"cause the powers" is a tricky phrase. I think your sDNA is critical to the process and I think it can be altered by a Shard (through a bead or through the mist we've already seen). But I don't think the sDNA is actually providing the power source (I think the sDNA is more like circuitry but the electricity comes from somewhere else... in this ridiculously stretched metaphor, the metals would be a key logic gate or maybe even the power cable connecting the power supply to the motherboard...)

 

I wouldn't say they're wrong. Finding the right metaphor for these things is tricky and I have to always caution myself not to get caught in a "metaphor" trap where you begin to think that just because a metaphor partially works that you start thinking that it's universal. But if we imagine the native magic power like a water flow slowly moving along then the metals might be "funnels". Those funnels do two things. They channel the energy increasing the speed and power. They also provide a shape to the stream based on the tip of the funnel.  I think that interpretation is consistent with what both you and I are thinking as well as that WoB quote.

 

Now when the power comes from a Ferruchemical source, it already has a shape. But consumption of the metal still gives you the amplifying affect (here's where the breakdown of my funnel metaphor happens a bit... a funnel can't actually "concentrate" a water flow without changing the shape... but that's not fatal to the explanation... merely a limitation of my physical world "funnel" metaphor). Your sDNA lets you burn Gold (we might go a step further... it's possible that your sDNA would even let you allomantically burn Gold on Earth... but there being no source of power you'd get nothing out of it... that's a tricky one and there's probably a good Brandon question in there somewhere).

 

You're right. I'd forgotten about the distinction between Gold and Atium... It makes my example weaker but I think it still has merit (that the Allomantic and Ferruchemical powers are related).

[ccstat he/him]

My phone downvoted you when I wasn't looking, sorry. I have some thoughts but they will have to wait until I'm on a real keyboard. Watch this space! (Or maybe not this space specifically. I'll probably just make a new reply at that point.)

Edited March 12, 2015 by ccstat

[Shaggai]

 

 

A few things:

• To summarize your position as I understand it, you think that there are pathways in the Spiritweb/something about the Spiritweb that causes the powers. The metals serve to give you the raw fuel (or multiply it), but don't themselves cause the powers. I like this, and it's my current headcanon. However, what you haven't done is reconcile the opposing WoBs. I guess you could say they're outright wrong? But there's an awful lot of them mentioning similar things here. In particular, this one from the OP:
  •  
• Your model doesn't explain Feruchemy to my satisfaction. If it's about the Spiritweb, Allomancers should not have a Feruchemist's Spiritweb, so I wouldn't expect a non-Feruchemist to be able to burn a metalmind and get an effect, and yet they do. Because of this, it implies the metal's structure itself causes the power like an Aon.
• Gold doesn't store youth, nor does it grant it. Miles was not immortal. Feruchemical atium does the youth thing, and Feruchemical gold specifically does not. (Edit: it appears we have a filter for f<Metal> now to change it to Feruchemical <metal>. How... wordy.)

 

If you view metals as having two Investiture-interacting components, it makes a bit more sense. One component allows Investiture to flow into the right sort of Spiritweb, and the other component shapes it. The second component can be changed through Feruchemical storage, thus changing the effect without making it impossible to use..

[Moogle]

Brandon's recent answer to my question about this was less than illuminating. I'm waiting for a response to my request for clarification.

 

I did end up with a satisfying model, however, in the process of writing my request for clarification. I'll post it if Brandon doesn't get back to me in the next few days. It is a subset of superset of Skaa's model.

 

Edit: Didn't mean to make that joke but I remain proud of it all the same.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Moogle

[Shaggai]

Brandon's recent answer to my question about this was less than illuminating. I'm waiting for a response to my request for clarification.

 

I did end up with a satisfying model, however, in the process of writing my request for clarification. I'll post it if Brandon doesn't get back to me in the next few days. It is a subset of superset of Skaa's model.

 

Edit: Didn't mean to make that joke but I remain proud of it all the same.

What was the question, and what was the answer?

[Moogle]

What was the question, and what was the answer?

 

Q: You've said previously that the molecular structure of metals serve to act sort of like the Aons in AonDor. Why, then, can mists power Allomancy? Shouldn't the metals themselves be the things causing the powers? And if metals don't cause the effect, how can a non-Feruchemist burn a metalmind that has been 'unlocked' through identity tricks and get a boost of an attribute without Feruchemist sDNA?

 

A:I was trying to figure out how to answer this, and then I realized while driving to get a hair cut that you were regarding this wrong in a fundamental way. Remember, the source of power for Allomancy is EXTERNAL while the source for Feruchemy is INTERNAL. This is a fundamental difference discussed in the series.

When you burn metals, you're drawing power from another place. When you tap a metalmind, you are drawing power that the person has created--a battery developed by themselves, so to speak.

So I think that's going to answer the source of your confusion.

[Shaggai]

 

Q: You've said previously that the molecular structure of metals serve to act sort of like the Aons in AonDor. Why, then, can mists power Allomancy? Shouldn't the metals themselves be the things causing the powers? And if metals don't cause the effect, how can a non-Feruchemist burn a metalmind that has been 'unlocked' through identity tricks and get a boost of an attribute without Feruchemist sDNA?

 

A:I was trying to figure out how to answer this, and then I realized while driving to get a hair cut that you were regarding this wrong in a fundamental way. Remember, the source of power for Allomancy is EXTERNAL while the source for Feruchemy is INTERNAL. This is a fundamental difference discussed in the series.

When you burn metals, you're drawing power from another place. When you tap a metalmind, you are drawing power that the person has created--a battery developed by themselves, so to speak.

So I think that's going to answer the source of your confusion.

 

Well, I see why it's not very useful, and I see why he interpreted your question the way he did. But I think that a good point here is that Aons are like metals in that they aren't powered by themselves. They're powered by the Dor, and they allow Elantrians to draw on that power in specific ways (as defined by the Aons).

I think the relevant analogy for different Aons isn't different metals, but the same metals with a different "charge" (Allomantic or Feruchemical). Someone with the same sDNA can use different Aons, but they're limited to AonDor. The analogy for different metals is different Dor-based systems, because they require different sDNA.

[natc]

Well, I see why it's not very useful, and I see why he interpreted your question the way he did. But I think that a good point here is that Aons are like metals in that they aren't powered by themselves. They're powered by the Dor, and they allow Elantrians to draw on that power in specific ways (as defined by the Aons).

I think the relevant analogy for different Aons isn't different metals, but the same metals with a different "charge" (Allomantic or Feruchemical). Someone with the same sDNA can use different Aons, but they're limited to AonDor. The analogy for different metals is different Dor-based systems, because they require different sDNA.

That's a lot of systems then. We're lucky god metal mistings don't naturally exist (unless you consider all humans as lerasium mistings) or we'd have hundreds of combinations.

[Moogle]

Anyways, since it doesn't seem like Brandon's answering (though there's still hope), the basic model is thus:

• All Investiture comes across as a 'beat' to Seeking, and this in turn matches the listener's interpretation of listening for highstorms. In other words, all Investiture can be viewed as a waveform.
• This waveform, upon encountering a human, is filtered by the body. Important: the sDNA of the soul is irrelevant. It is the human form that does the filtering. It does not matter whether you're a Misting or what, only that there be a soul there to do the filtering. (Or perhaps some mixture of the soul and body. Whatever.)
• There is no really standard effect in general when this happens. In most cases, however, the Investiture, once in the body, manages to also get into the Spiritual. It then naturally interacts with the soul, which results in healing. Large amounts of Investiture also serve to compress the Realms a little, explaining Awakening's particular brand of Cognitive and Spiritual effects. (Increased ability to process color, Spiritual(?) sensing of others).
• Much like when you send photons at the right frequency at a sheet of metal and produce a current (the photoelectric effect), certain effects happen when particular waveforms interact with the human body.
• There are ways to filter the waveform that is general Shardic Investiture into lesser waveforms. In Allomancy, there are conveniently sixteen useful waveforms that will play nicely with the human body (+godmetals), conveniently created through the use of the sixteen metals. There should be theoretically-craftable metals that can filter Investiture into any arbitrary effect you want, but these metals probably need whacky Realmatic hijinks to be created.
  • In a similar way, Feruchemists fling their Investiture at a metal, and properly shaped metal will only allow one waveform through. Feruchemists reverse-generate this waveform at the cost of the effect it produces, much like Lift generates Investiture from food, Feruchemists generate Investiture shaped to produce strength in a human body by sacrificing said strength and directing it into a metalmind. If I had to name this effect, I'd call it something-something dualism of Investiture and matter.
  • This sheer level of convenience suggests an alternate explanation, where something basic to the Investiture of Scadrial only really likes those metals, like there's only so many Aons in AonDor. It may be there's a few Spiritual Ideals linked to each metal type, which is why the metals allow passage from the Spiritual to the Physical. This part of the theory needs work, but I'm confident it can be answered.
• On to actual Allomantic mechanics: the power of an Allomancer is to burn metal(s). There is no other power involved. Nothing on their sDNA is responsible for the effect (like Pushing) generated, their sDNA just lets them start the process that burns metal and draws Investiture.
• The drawn Investiture is filtered through the metal, which changes it into the proper beat and then interacts with the human body, causing the effect. (It's not just interacting with the body, naturally, as there's some mental direction involved. I sort of imagine it like you are a mirror reflecting light, and you can choose to pivot yourself to determine where the light is going to go.)
• Use of these waveforms 'imprints' them onto your soul. We call this savantism, but it's really not a binary thing - every Allomancer is some level of savant from their first burn as the Investiture rips troughs in their soul and the soul shifts to accomodate.
• Naturally, there's more than just the sixteen waveforms for the sixteen base metals: god metals also produce usable waveforms, and it should come as no surprise that, since metals normally filter Ruin/Ati's Investiture, alloying these god metals in turn filters the waveforms coming from the god metals to be filtered even more. Also of note: there's sixteen (+god metal alloys) more filters: metalminds.
  • Metalminds are fabrials of a sort. They've had a human's innate Investiture (which, for a Feruchemist, derives from Ruin/Preservation, so it still is fine with metal filtering) pass through them and then got stuck there. This changes the metal's filtering such that, when burned and Preservation wants to pass through the metalmind, it is just filtered into the waveform causing Feruchemical attribute. A Feruchemist's power is not tapping, or even really storing, but creating machines that turn Investiture into Feruchemical effects. The side effect of this is that they've also filled it with some power so that it turns into a battery.
  • It is not a massive coincidence that, when a metalmind is burned, the filtering effect of a metalmind turns Investiture into a 'copy' of what would normally come out if you tapped it. That's just what the Feruchemist has created.
• The mists need some way to be focused and filtered, or else they're just going to sit in the person and be worthless. However, it is convenient for Vin that she's already ripped troughs in her soul corresponding to the twelve or whatever metals she's burned. Building on the savant idea presented earlier, because she's already got these conduits running through her, the mist (naturally composed of the various waveforms) can just go on through these conduits and 'power' Allomancy.
  • This is along the lines of Skaa's model. However, mine is more general, in that I don't believe Preservation is just composed of the sixteen Allomantic waveforms - I think there's nigh-infinite waveforms there that can be generated from Preservation's more general, which allow Preservation to do basically anything he wants and create almost any effect.
  • The 'problem', such as it is, is that Vin is limited purely to using the mists to power alloys she's already used. Vin should not be able to use the mists to power cadmium/bendalloy, for example, as a consequence of this model.
    • Furthermore, Vin should not be able to power anything caused by atium/atium alloys, as those are generated from a base of Ruin's waveform, and Preservation's cannot transform into that (easily).
  • The second 'problem' comes from the fact that the mists are capable of so much more than these few limited effects Vin is capable of. They want to be filtered into so much more. (I am speaking as if it's alive here and has a will, but I don't really believe their sentient. It's just me anthropomorphizing some metaphysical laws.) The human body is extremely limited in what the waveforms can do - you can only generate one note tapping on the edge of  a wineglass filled with some water - so what ends up happening is that it is vaporized past a certain part, and the newly expanded soul is much freer in what it can filter. Indeed, at this point, you become a god and can move planets, create new matter, etc. because as a filter you've now been turned from a wineglass into a stereo system.
    • The 'why' of the vaporization is explained in this WoB (see OP for citation): "Doing this, however, rips 'troughs' through her body. It's like forcing far too much pressure through a very small, fragile hose. That much power eventually vaporizes the corporeal host, which is acting as the block and forcing the power into a single type of conduit (Allomancy) and frees it to be more expansive."
    • That WoB is still kind of unclear on why this doesn't just kill you, so this is another problem the model needs work on.
• The troughs ripped in Vin should be capable of having almost any Investiture go through them to power Allomancy. The only exception I would guess would be that Ruin is going to have a slightly harder time generating these waveforms.
• Extending this to AonDor: An Elantrian's power is purely in the ability to 'suck in' the Dor through a symbol. The symbols do all the work, transforming the Investiture into a highly-calibrated waveform (in a sort of analogue to signal processing, the Aons would be things like capacitors, op amps, etc.).

---

 

Anyways, that ended up longer than I thought it'd be. Oops. I'll clean this up and post it in another thread when I've worked out my remaining issues.

 

Novel Predictions of this Model:

• Vin should only be able to power Allomantic effects she's previously used before. (And they'd probably need to have been used more than once.)
• Anyone (on Scadrial, maybe anyone period) should be able to tap an unlocked metalmind. Mistings are not an exception in being able to get Feruchemical effects.
• As a corollary to the last: anyone who taps an unlocked metalmind (though it may take a lot of tapping to get 'troughs' into your soul) should be capable of using the mists to replicate that effect.
• Elantrians should not be capable of using gaseous Dor to perform AonDor without drawing Aons in general, because the filtered waveforms from the Dor are not interacting with their body in general. Maybe if they constantly healed themselves with a healing Aon, their body would gain the same 'troughs' an Allomancer's does, and then they could replicate that effect with gaseous Dor.
• The troughs ripped on your soul should be theoretically(?) capable of being 'filled' in by any Investiture, though it's not at all clear if the Allomantic power waveforms are naturally subsets of non-Preservation/Ruin Investitures. I would expect a Misting who gains a hundred Breaths to be able to feel their metal reserves 'fill' and be able to power Allomancy with them without much work, but I allow for the possibility that they need to filter the Breath's waveforms through something like lerasium to manage that. The waveforms corresponding to the various basic Allomantic effects should be possible to generate from any Investiture, though the level of difficulty in doing so is up for debate.
  • Awakeners are out of luck until they figure out a way to give Commands to Investiture that isn't of Endowment. It is not at all clear to me how you'd jury-rig this one, because non-Endowment Investiture shouldn't naturally be inclined to be focused by a Command, much like Stormlight isn't naturally inclined to pass through metals. Poor Vasher.
  • Surgebinding is also unclear to me, in that I'm doubtful that the Surges are being produced by waveforms interacting with Kaladin's body. I think it's more likely he's flinging his Investiture through the bond to Syl, and she's the one filtering it. Or I guess the bond would be the thing filtering it, and the resulting waveforms interact with the environment itself. Either way, I would expect Stormlight to require a lot of jury-rigging to get it working with a different power source.
  • If Vin found a way to take in the black mist of Ruin, I'd expect her to be able to be able to power atium + the other sixteen metals.
• Allomantic fabrials should require one to find 'human substrate', or something that mimics the human body's effects when hit with Allomantic waveforms, and then infuse the metal with mists (since mistfabrials won't be able to replicate the metal-burning effect most likely). The natural thing to do would be to make Hemalurgic spikes (important: the spikes would NOT have to be of a Misting or Feruchemist), but it's also conceivable that you could take human flesh and cover the fabrial in that and it might work. I doubt that, since I think it has more to do with souls/the Spiritual, but I cannot rule this out.
• Fabrials (as in Rosharan fabrials) probably don't need metal frames, the entire process should be happening with the spren captured inside and the shape of the gemstone (which serve to further filter the waveforms the spren produces - the spren acts like the Feruchemical charge in a metalmind).

Edited March 13, 2015 by Moogle

[Shaggai]

@Moogle:

Wow, that's a big post. The WoB about troughs kind of messes up my initial response, but that's quite interesting. I'll see if I can come up with a response at some point.

 

That's a lot of systems then. We're lucky god metal mistings don't naturally exist (unless you consider all humans as lerasium mistings) or we'd have hundreds of combinations.

They're not all different systems on Scadrial. They're just analogous to different systems.

[Darkness he/him]

Similar reaction as Shaggai. I hate leaving vague responses, and I apologize for it, but it's midnight, so even if I stayed up long enough to give you a properly thought out response, I wouldn't be able to phrase it coherently. <-- Point in case.

For short reference, and so I can come back to it, I'm going to pretend your bullets are numbered and point out the ones I'm uneasy about accepting, along with a brief premise for why I think that way so I can come back and elaborate later.

1. (Odium, Honor, Preservation, and probably Ruin do, but all of them? Seems likely, but maybe not)

2. I believe the cracks in the soul (sDNA) is what allows investiture to flow through a person and become realized as a magical ability. The cracks allow the power through, and they interpret it.

8. Same as with (2), allomancy is both burning the metal and interpreting the power that comes through. This is related to why allomancers can't just burn a feruchemically charged metal and get the burst of power; they can't interpret it properly, even though they can still burn it.

9. Not just mental direction, but spiritual as well. Investiture transcends and permeates the realms, so I imagine each has a role to play.

12. There's something a little off about this to me. Feruchemy is specific to the user. If the metal were the only filter, then any allomancer/feruchemist should be able to access the stored power. I think something more along the lines of each Feruchemist shapes his/her own special version of investiture (modulated by the soul), not a generic investiture that is the same for everyone. They also are able to store memories and knowledge, which is a little abstract compared to allomancy (I guess allomantic gold is comparable though). If I may suggest, I think feruchemists have the ability to reversibly imprint parts of their spirit web onto appropriately tuned metals. I'll develop this further later.

13. The allomantic waveform gets filtered through the feruchemically charged metal, recognizes the charge (spirit web that says 'trait x_Sazed'), and says, "hey! I can do that!" and changes the waveform to match trait x_Sazed. I don't know how this explains allomancers being able to burn the metal and disregard the associated feruchemical charge.

21. The troughs have to have a waveform that the soul recognizes and can interpret. I see how this could be 'any' investiture with your part about 'infinite waveforms', but I think there's a little more to it than just using it by instinct. Perhaps that's where the planet comes in. Maybe the planet's meta-physics-gravity bends or distorts (tints?) the waveforms of the resident Shards into a subset of the total possible power. So allomancy works because it's Preservation/Ruin on Scadrial, and wouldn't work for any other Shard or on any other world.

22. The Elantrians' power is to rip the boundary between the physical realm and that place that transcends the realms where the Dor is. The power has a pressure behind it and wants to get out all on its own.

23. Sure, until exposure to Preservation's power rips new paths through her soul in the shape of the power, and suddenly she can interpret those waveforms/channels too. That's my hypothesis for why people 'ascend' and are suddenly able to do a bunch of stuff.

24. You have to be able to either draw the stored power out (be a Feruchemist), or burn the metal to draw new power through it (Allomancer). In my opinion unlocking simply means the "_Sazed" part of the power signature is removed.

29. Slight modification: I think Kaladin had fissures in his soul that his bond to Syl is slowly bridging up/modifying. When he says oaths, he further renovates the fissures into more precise shapes for the Stormlight waveform to filter through properly, hence with a stronger bond/oaths comes stronger powers.

31. Too tired to understand what you mean here. I'll come back to it.

32. I like the thought, but I think the frame is important. I don't see spren as filters, in the same way Breaths aren't filters. They are splinters. Tiny pieces of raw investiture. Like seons, spren do take on an ideal and some degree of sentience over time (strengthened by a bond to a human), but I don't think they actually filter power, I'd say that more of a function of the gemstones and metal that shape the power. But I'm prepared to be happily mistaken

Oh boy, that's me trying to be concise. Hopefully I won't have too much to add.

[ccstat he/him]

Moogle, that is an excellent framework. The impressive part is that at the beginning I was disagreeing with you a lot, but the more I read the more I thought, "Wait, no, Moogle is actually right here."
 
The gut response is (was) that the elaborate theory is unnecessary. As you noted, Brandon didn't seem to get your question. Granted, he didn't have the context of your thought process, and hopefully he will respond to your followup question. However, that seemed to indicate to me that he doesn't recognize the apparent contradictions that you've pointed out, and so he hasn't built a bridging mechanic in. I get the sense as consistent as his mental mode is, it has a bit more "Zeroth Law" going on, looking for what's awesome rather than what would strictly follow from a set of rules. 
 
That said, I really do like the theory you present here! It makes a lot of sense, and I only have a few one objections.
 

• Use of these waveforms 'imprints' them onto your soul. We call this savantism, but it's really not a binary thing - every Allomancer is some level of savant from their first burn as the Investiture rips troughs in their soul and the soul shifts to accomodate.

[...]

• Vin should only be able to power Allomantic effects she's previously used before. (And they'd probably need to have been used more than once.)

 
I'm not convinced that burning a metal is required to initiate the trough. What about Snapping? On your "savantism" scale, a non-metalborn or a pre-Snap protoallomancer may have no trough yet, but a Snapped Allomancer does not start out at "0". I think that when Vin Snapped, she had all 16 basic metal troughs broken open to some degree, so that if she had known to try (or had time to experiment with the mists) she would have been fully capable of powering cadmium, etc.
 
 

• Anyone (on Scadrial, maybe anyone period) should be able to tap an unlocked metalmind. Mistings are not an exception in being able to get Feruchemical effects.

24. You have to be able to either draw the stored power out (be a Feruchemist), or burn the metal to draw new power through it (Allomancer). In my opinion unlocking simply means the "_Sazed" part of the power signature is removed.

I was going to agree with Darkness here and say that doesn't follow, but then I reviewed the quotes earlier in the thread and saw that I'd missed this one: 

There is a way to get a non-powered person to access a metalmind. (Presumably now, with the Mistborn RPG, we know that this may have something to do with Identity.)

 

So I guess you are on the right track with that after all.

[skaa he/him]

Nicely done, Moogle. I am very happy to see you forming a theory about this. Just a few quick comments before I disappear again:

 

• I don't believe Preservation is limited to the 16 Allomantic powers, so we basically agree that the Shard is capable of doing more things. While I did describe the mists as a mixture containing those 16 powers, I did imply that there was more to it than that. I might have been too subtle, though, so I can see how people might have gotten confused.
   
• I agree with ccstat that Snapping is what creates the initial "troughs" in the Spiritweb. Subsequent passage of Investiture merely widens those troughs.
   
• Yeah, fabrials might probably work without metals, I guess. At least, a spren trapped in an infused gemstone without a metal setting ought to create an effect in theory. Too bad we've never seen a fabrial that explicitly has no metal setting. As you know, in my own fabrial model the metal acts as an Investiture resonator that has the Stormlight pattern of the fabrial imprinted on it. I don't know if it serves any other purpose, though.

Edited March 14, 2015 by skaa

[Moogle]

Thanks for the feedback everyone, and sorry for the long post. It sort of spiraled out of control, and I appreciate everyone taking the time to read through it despite its enormous size. I don't really have responses for all the issues have been brought up, but I can respond to a few.

 

Apologies for misinterpreting you, Skaa.

 

@Darkness:

2.Your 'cracks in the soul' being what interprets the power kinda matches up my troughs idea, so I'm not sure we're too far off each other. I suppose the 'cracks in the soul' thing are supposed to be caused by trauma, though.

 

12. The idea of Investitures being 'keyed' to the person who made them is certainly a problem, but I've previously come up with an "identity repels identity" theory which handles it. (Note for the brave who expect to be able to read that mammoth-sized post: I've since found a lot of things I wrote there to be wrong, but the 'identity repels identity' theorem seems not-obviously-wrong for the moment.)

 

Essentially, the key idea is that Investiture, as it flows through you, is filtered by you and so takes on your identity in part. Different identities repel each other - Jasnah has problems touching the flame of a different person's soul in Shadesmar (she says the "innate power repels her", or some variant), but Shallan has no problems falling into the flame that belongs to her. In a similar way, you can't tap the metalmind of someone who isn't you because the stored power repels you. The way to fix this in my theory is to reduce your identity to near-zero so the repulsive force is next to zero. (I see this as an analogue to magnets or charged particles repelling.)

 

22. That is essentially another way to word what I said. The Elantrians find some way to pull the Dor through initially. I expect the exact same thing is what Allomancers are doing. There's obviously a pressure on its own, but someone is required to jumpstart it - I see it as someone sucking on a hose to start a siphon draining water. (You know, in retrospect, what my dad did to do that was really unsanitary. Do other people suck on hoses?)

 

24. It's entirely possible that a Muggle cannot simply tap the power. I will have to think more on this. I get the feeling that tapping the power should be fairly easy, though, based on the WoB ccstat quoted.

 

@ccstat:

I object to the idea of Snapping initially creating the troughs on the principle that it's not really needed. I also feel like Vin would have felt four new metal reserves if her Snapping gave her those marks on her soul. Granted, whenever she used the mist she was under stress, but that part of the theory was developed specifically to deal with Vin not noticing she had +33% new powers to use. I also strongly believe she would not have atium-troughs on her soul by default as a Mistborn, and given that she has no problems burning atium, I don't see why she'd need to have a non-zero trough width for metals initially either.

 

Still, the core parts of the theory do not necessarily depend on whether or not Snapping does this initially. I'll definitely think about modifying this part of the model if I ever rewrite it, because it's entirely possible you and skaa are right on this. I definitely need to think more. This model was more or less thought up on a spur of the moment thing, so I'm surprised people haven't found more huge issues.

 

Brandon has also previously described Snapping as having the supersaturated solution of the soul crystallize and have the excess Preservation become something that lets you use Allomancy, which doesn't sound like it would rip troughs on the soul, but it's so hard to tell with WoBs. I guess mental anguish/physical beatings WOULD cause tears in the soul, though, so hrm. I've just sort of been envisioning the whole 'broken soul' thing as there now being a hole in your soul that Preservation's Investiture can enter you through, but I can definitely see that this could be adapted to the trough thing.

 

@Skaa:

I'm not convinced that metal will shape any Investitures that aren't related to Ruin and Preservation. That said, if Stormlight is of Adonalsium, it might be forced to follow those rules... hrm. I'll think more on this, but for the moment I think metal is used simply because it's cheap to create via Soulcaster and durable (at least, under this model of Allomancy). Definitely a question for Brandon, because I agree with you that it's weird that every single fabrial has had metal used as part of it.

 

Sorry again for misinterpreting you. I see now that I've been completely not understanding what you meant by Stormlight being made of the ten Surges (ie. you didn't believe it was solely made of them).