Help Understanding the Heralds *warning spoilers* [Warbreaker Spoilers]

[Illikis]

I'm new to this website!  I'm so glad that it exists to help me.

 

I recently finished WoK and WoR.  I loved these books, they were great.  After reading, I had many questions that this website helped fill, but not all of them.

 

I am still confused on the Heralds... so little of them is known I feel at this point.

 

Question #1:

The book starts at the end of a desolation and one of the heralds had died (herald of war).  The other one states that "I can't go back, I just can't" and the other agrees and says the others felt the same.  They mentioned that the one herald that died will be enough to cover for them and they his suffering is better than all their sufferings... when they die they get sent somewhere to be punished or something in preparation to come back again?

 

Question #2:

The heralds left their swords and left... what does this mean?  Are they dead at this point or simply immortal like beings wandering the world?  We know their swords eventually found their way to the Shin but what of the heralds themselves (other than herald of war which apparently came back to life of some sorts in WoR)?

 

Question #3:

In WoR we know the Herald of War makes a return that Wit was there to welcome saying "you may be too late".  He doesn't really do much... I don't know what happens but supposedly when the heralds die they go to some place and come back for the next desolation.  So is the Herald of War the only "active" herald now?

 

Question #4:

Similar to question 3... the person that saved Szeth at the end was a herald?  I don't understand who that was or the significance.  But I feel there is one.

 

Thanks so much for any help filling in the gaps for me!

[Moogle]

Hi there, welcome to the forums!

 

1) This seems to be what happens. The Heralds are supposed to go somewhere to be tortured at the end of every Desolation. If they die during a Desolation, they get sent there, but they're supposed to go there anyways if they live.

 

2) The Heralds seem to be immortal. They gave up their swords, signifying they gave up on the Oathpact and are no longer willing to suffer for humanity. All the Heralds seem to have gone slightly insane, or are filled with guilt, or other things. We know there's a few still kicking for sure, and we suspect a few others are around:

• Nalan/Nale, Herald of Justice, is "Darkness", the man hunting Surgebinders throughout WoR. He resurrected Szeth.
• Shallash, Herald of Beauty, is the woman seen in Way of Kings' who is destroying art. Check out the Baxil Interlude.
• (Speculation, not confirmed) The beggar Szeth sees in the prologue to Way of Kings asks "have you seen me?" next to a bunch of statues of Heralds is widely suspected to be a Herald.
• (More speculation) Jasnah meets Nalan in the prologue of WoR, who is talking to another man about "Ash" (Shallash likely), and is talking about how they're "getting worse". The man Nalan is talking to here is suspected to be a Herald.

3) We don't know the man who returned is actually Taln. He claims to be Taln. Some think he is actually Taln, and some people think otherwise here. I'm a fan of the theory that "Taln" is actually another Herald who's gone insane, but it's unclear.

 

Taln may very well be the only "active" Herald, but one Herald took back their Honorblade (the Shin only had 8, including Szeth's Honorblade: one was missing, and one belongs to Taln). It's uncertain how exactly the Oathpact works, and whether the Heralds who gave up their Blades can still die and go back to be tortured.

 

4) The man claims to be Nalan, Herald of Justice. This is certainly significant for a number of reasons, but I'm not sure how to answer this question. It's interesting, because he thinks that Surgebinders bring the Desolations, and he was killing them because of that. He also seems to want Szeth to bring justice to the Shin leadership. And the sword he gave Szeth is very, very dangerous.

[Edgedancer he/him]

1)Details are a bit muddy but from what I know the Heralds spend the time between Desolations somwhere (in Damnation/Braize?). It´s not 100% clear what happens with them there but from what we know they are getting horribly tortured. They stay there as long as the weakest of them can endure, once one of them gives in the next Desolation starts and they return to Roshar. There hasn´t been a Desolation in a long while because Taln (the Herald that died) is badchull and endured until now.

 

3)An interesting detail about the man calling himself Taln is that his blade got switched (descriptions don´t match and the second one deifinetly isn´t a Honorblade) sometimes between the end of Wok and him being brought to Dalinar in WoR. The haunting memories of torture the madman has are also a good indication that he witnessed the place Heralds go but again no definite proof.

 

I don´t think I can add anymore to what was already said.

[Illikis]

Wow thanks so much for the fantastic replies... this fills in a lot of the gaps.  It seems to be an awful thing to be a Herald... chosen (possibly of the Almighty) to serve mankind with special powers to overcome desolations.  But be punished for it?  Seems harsh.

 

3) When Taln died and got sent away I think his sword went with him because it wasn't with the others...  I wonder how it could have been swapped out when he returned that being considered.

 

4) You think the Heralds would know better than anyone what is going on.  I don't get why the Herald of Justice would be so corrupted.  Also, is that Nightblood that he gave Szeth???

[Edgedancer he/him]

4)Yes it is. You can also find Vasher in the cast, if you pay attention.

[Illikis]

For real?!?  Well this has more questions in relation:
 

1)  Why would Vasher be on a completely different world

2)  They Heralds ARE good right?? I still don't understand why Nalan is killing good people because of "justice"... doesn't make sense

3)  Why would Nalan have Nightblood now and not Vasher?  Unless he stole it or something but I didn't catch that anywhere.

[Moogle]

3) Taln's Blade was swapped from the one we see at the end of WoK. He collapses unconscious, and his Shardblade clatters to the ground next to him. There's something interesting here: most normal Shardblades turn to mist if that happens, but we know Honorblades stick around. We also know that unbonded Shardblades clatter to the ground and don't turn to mist. We know Szeth's eyes change color whenever he holds his Honorblade, and Taln had dark eyes while he was holding his Shardblade, so there's some evidence that the man just had an unbonded Shardblade.

 

1) Because he can feed off of Stormlight rather than Breath, and this way he doesn't have to feel bad about eating parts of people's souls. Unless you're talking about "how", in which case we don't know the specifics, but it's quite likely he just went into Shadesmar (well, Shadesmar is a Roshar-specific term for the local Cognitive Realm, but you know what I mean) and walked over.

 

2) Who knows? A lot of people think the Heralds have become "corrupted" with time, which is why for example Shallash (who is supposed to be the Herald representing art/creativity) is destroying art. Nalan is killing Surgebinders because he thinks they bring Desolations, which might make him a "good guy" (though plenty of people don't like how he's killing people like Lift/Ym who seem to be nice enough), but we don't know if that's true.

 

3) Vasher lost Nightblood, and we don't know how. I don't have any theories on this one.

 

(Since this thread has wandered into Warbreaker territory, I have added a spoiler warning to the thread title.)

Edited December 13, 2014 by Ookla the Infinite

[Illikis]

All great replies... very informative.  I hope Szeth has a coming around and becomes good again... we still don't know his full story but I feel he was good at some time before being cast out for claiming a coming desolation.  I feel he is realizing he was justified and is reborn to be good again... I hope Nalan doesn't corrupt him.

 

Random Questions:

A)  If Szeth was cast out (shamed or what not from his people) why in the world would they give him to take something as valuable as a honor blade??  Unless he stole it when he was cast out but I think his honor is too big for that.

 

B ) If the 17th shard is chasing Hoid and is associated with the God of the Hate Shard... wouldn't that make us all bad people for belonging to this website???

 

Other than that I think you all cleared up most of my questions about the Heralds... unless you think I am missing anything else.  Basically to sum it up they were once God chosen people to serve the world but since the Almighty's death they have basically gotten lost/crazy (as far as we know).

Edited December 13, 2014 by Illikis

[Moogle]

I agree that Szeth comes across as a nice guy when he's not forced (in his mind, anyways) to kill people. The next book is probably going to focus on him and his backstory, so that'll prove interesting I think.

 

A) The Shin view warriors as low and to be scorned. Farmers, "he-who-adds", are revered. By giving Szeth a weapon of ultimate destruction, they are signifying that in the eyes of all the Shin he is even worse than a normal warrior, they're saying that he's the lowest of the low. There may be other reasons, but based on my understanding of their culture, that's what seems to be going on to me.

 

The 17th Shard doesn't seem to be associated with Odium, they just preach non-intervention. Or, at least, the person Hoid is writing a letter to preaches that and is affiliated with the 17th Shard.

 

As to the Heralds, they broke their oaths before Honor died. I'm also not sure if Nalan is crazy or not. If Surgebinders do bring Desolations, I'm not entirely sure I could call him "lost" or "insane". Desolations are really really bad.

Edited December 13, 2014 by Ookla the Infinite

[Illikis]

I feel like if the Shin were charged by the Heralds (assumption here, I don't actually know how they got the blades) to protect their blades.  I feel that giving them away as parting gifts for those of bad repute would be a fast way to lose them all (over centuries and centuries).  But yes, I see what you are saying and agree.

 

Thanks again so much for all your input and help.

[Moogle]

I'm glad I could help. As to losing the Honorblades, Szeth claims that the Stone Shamans would retrieve his Blade from whoever killed him in Way of Kings. Whether or not they can actually do that is unknown.

[Caladcholg he/him]

This seems an appropriate thread to ask this question...

 

Are there any theories as to why the Heralds came to be?  Were they special before being declared Heralds, or was their near immortality granted by the oathpact?

[dayman]

This seems an appropriate thread to ask this question...

 

Are there any theories as to why the Heralds came to be?  Were they special before being declared Heralds, or was their near immortality granted by the oathpact?

 

I don't think there is much to work with on this one yet...but I just assumed that Honor created them. Perhaps to lead men to be honorable since Odium is on that planet and men could behave badly if too much hate was in their hearts. 

[Moogle]

This seems an appropriate thread to ask this question...

 

Are there any theories as to why the Heralds came to be?  Were they special before being declared Heralds, or was their near immortality granted by the oathpact?

 

Based on their appearance, I think there's a strong possibility the Heralds are not from Roshar. (Shallash is described as looking wholly unlike any of the nationalities.)

 

Their notable quality of dying and coming back makes me think of the Returned from Warbreaker. Honor might be doing a similar thing, which would mean the Heralds were originally men who just got a Splinter of Honor (and/or Cultivation?) stuck in them.

[hoser he/him]

This seems an appropriate thread to ask this question...

Are there any theories as to why the Heralds came to be? Were they special before being declared Heralds, or was their near immortality granted by the oathpact?

As Moogle suggests, they may be from off-planet. With the Vorin mythology about being chased off the Tranquilline Halls, they could be from the Tranquilline Halls. Braize is also apparently known as Damnation, but could it once have been the Halls? Could the Halls have been on the third planet in the system? Were they on Roshar? Could they have been off-system?

The Heralds are apparently required to return to Braize to be tortured (presumably by Odium) as part of the Oathpact. If they die, they return to Braize automagically. It seems inhumane of Honor to require his champions to be constantly tortured, so maybe Braize wasn't always that bad.

There are a few references to a Proving Day. I think it must have been a contest where the Heralds proved their worthiness to become Heralds.

One scenario could be:

• Adonalsium invests Roshar (before the Shards broke off) and it develops spren-symbiotic species including greatshells and Listeners.
• People happy on the Tranquilline Halls (Braize) w/Honor and Cultivation.
• Odium comes along and convinces some disgruntled people to accept his investiture ( the unmade) and cause problems periodically (precurser Desolations?) for H+C's people.
• H+C each pick 5 champions of their gender at proving day to give investiture. Honor enters into the Oathpact w/them and gives them the Honorblades.
• Even w/the Heralds' help, H+C's people are forced to leave, going to Roshar. The investiture of H+C and the thought of their people create Nahel-Bond spren on Roshar.
• Odium and his Unmade follow and get back to desolating periodically.
• After some time, Odium creates spren that make Voidbringers of Listeners.
• The Nahel-Bond spren help form the Knights Radiant, who make surviving the Desolations much more likely and bring relative peace to Roshar (ten stable kingdoms instead of entire countries being wiped out).
• The Heralds reach the end of their tethers (there could also be skulduggery involved) and mostly quit.

This is one theory. There are probably more others than there are people participating in the 17th Shard.

HTH

Edited December 24, 2014 by hoser

[Savanorn he/him]

As Moogle suggests, they may be from off-planet. With the Vorin mythology about being chased off the Tranquilline Halls, they could be from the Tranquilline Halls. Braize is also apparently known as Damnation, but could it once have been the Halls? Could the Halls have been on the third planet in the system? Were they on Roshar? Could they have been off-system?

 

 

Well, the Heralds are bound to the Roshar system, so the halls probably couldn't be offsystem.

 

Also, I think the third planet in the Roshar system is ashyn which has very little to do with Vorin mythology.