RawToast225 he/him Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 All right, folks. I read both The Sixth of Dusk and Shadows for Silence side by side and took notes on how similar they are. I'm sure I missed some similarities, but these are the ones I saw. 1. Setting. They both are set in extremely dangerous wooded areas with safe places scattered throughout. (The safe places being around the birds and in a circle of silver) 2. Skill Levels. They both follow the most skilled people in the worlds. Silence is the only one who really understands the Forests because of her grandparents. Similarly, Sixth seems to be the best at navigating the most dangerous island. 3. Fighting for those they love. Both main characters fight for those they love. Silence fights for her daughters, Sixth fights for his island. He really does want to preserve his homeland, no matter how much he hates it. He'll probably fall in love with that one chick, but we'll see. 4. Power. The protection from the worst predators on both islands are similar. The Aviar great a circle around those they want to protect and the Shades can't cross silver. 5. The feeling. I don't know if this goes for everyone, but the feeling was very similar between the two books for me. I tend to pay attention to how works of art make me feel as well as the technical aspects of it. 6. Main characters. They were both socially awkward people. They were taught by their mentors to be as tough as possible. They were both, as I said before, extremely skilled. It seems like Brandon can only write this type of short story with the same feel in the Cosmere. Similarly, I Hate Dragons had the same feel as Firstborn. Those are the similarities I found. Do you have any to add? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoidhunter he/him Posted December 14, 2014 Report Share Posted December 14, 2014 Both of their mentors died in front of them...right? Outsiders hide from the wilderness in fortresses...? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RawToast225 he/him Posted December 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2014 Nice! I missed that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 (edited) Both mentors theoretically try to kill them, or would kill them if they weren't skilled (the shade of her mother, and the island) Edited December 16, 2014 by Pathfinder 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RawToast225 he/him Posted December 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 Ah, nice one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 Both stories involve an "indigenous" culture, dealing with modernization, and changing with the times. Silence the child of the original settlers who respected the wood while the modernists want to chop down and populate the forest, and Dusk a child of the original islanders, who respected the islands, while the modernists want to settle them and build fortresses. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RawToast225 he/him Posted December 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 (edited) That's a really big one. I don't know how I missed that.... These stories are more alike than even I thought. What's up with that? P.S. I accidentally down voted you, so I gave you an up vote. I didn't mean to. Edited December 16, 2014 by Arthur Dent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 I am not sure about Sixth of Dusk but I think they are also both invested worlds that no longer have a shard. Maybe you are right and given it is a short story, he has only so much time and space to work a deeper plot into it. Or could be he is trying to give a taste of other worlds, but hold back a lot for fear of spoiling his plans for down the line. No worries about the downvote, and thank you for letting me know that was what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis he/him Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 Both stories involve an "indigenous" culture, dealing with modernization, and changing with the times. Silence the child of the original settlers who respected the wood while the modernists want to chop down and populate the forest, and Dusk a child of the original islanders, who respected the islands, while the modernists want to settle them and build fortresses. Eh... the Fortfolk don't want to cut down the forests, that I know of. They want to tax the people, but that's it. And Sixth is no more indigenous than anyone else. He comes from the exact same islands as the Trading Company. They've just moved with the times while he hasn't. For that matter it's hard to consider Silence "indigenous" when her grandparents came from Homeland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 (edited) Eh... the Fortfolk don't want to cut down the forests, that I know of. They want to tax the people, but that's it. And Sixth is no more indigenous than anyone else. He comes from the exact same islands as the Trading Company. They've just moved with the times while he hasn't. For that matter it's hard to consider Silence "indigenous" when her grandparents came from Homeland. That's why i put it in quotes. It was meant to more represent a more traditional culture that is closer to the land, and natural ways versus a more industrialized culture/influence progression rather than the literal definition of indigenous. I understand you strive for accuracy, but sometimes focusing on one word and disregarding the point of the entire rest of the post can be problematic. I did state that Silence's parents were the first settlers, and respected the woods in regards to the dangers it offered. the trading company i was under the impression was from the mainland, and even if they were from the islands, they were focusing on changing and exerting their will upon the islands, while the trappers that sixth is descended from and maintains their traditions exist within it. If I recall correctly, the Fortfolk did intend on expanding and making more forts. In order to do that, one has to cut down the forest. Edited December 17, 2014 by Pathfinder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis he/him Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 I was disagreeing with the underlying sentiment of your post; I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear. I mean, you're vaguing it up to the point where you say "the protagonist is in a setting where conflict exists" and at that point it's pretty much the same as every story. There are almost no similarities between the fortfolk and the trading company, apart from an extremely generic "wilderness versus civilization". (By the way, the Trading Company absolutely comes from the same islands as Sixth.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 I was disagreeing with the underlying sentiment of your post; I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear. I mean, you're vaguing it up to the point where you say "the protagonist is in a setting where conflict exists" and at that point it's pretty much the same as every story. There are almost no similarities between the fortfolk and the trading company, apart from an extremely generic "wilderness versus civilization". (By the way, the Trading Company absolutely comes from the same islands as Sixth.) I disagree, I think I was very clear in that I was stating it was an old world/traditionalist view vs a modernist view. Stating that it is "vague" in your opinion doesn't change the point of the post. This is not a debate. My post was to add to his thread, not to argue the semantics of the words I used, nor the validity in your mind of my comparison. The OP stated he saw similarities, so i rattled a few off as I thought of them. Now if you would like to state that the stories are not similar, and then I turn around and state they are, and aim to cite examples to prove my point, then it is a debate. Now we are arguing over the meaning of the words, rather than contributing to the original post. For instance, you say they are not indigenous, when there is no clear definition of who is or isn't. The International Law regarding indigenous people would disagree with you. It defines indigenous as based on their historical ties to a particular territory, and their cultural or historical distinctiveness from other populations. Both of which fits the original settlers in Silence, and the trappers in Dusk. This same thing happened with the edgedancer comment. Edgedancer is a broad term, Lift is specific. I stated an edgedancer LIKE Lift. Instead of continuing the discourse of how things could manifest in the real world, you focused on having to state that Lift did not have that ability because she was an edgedancer, which was not the point of your post nor mine at all. This is why zeroing in can be so problematic, you miss and shut down the original discourse. I would like to talk with you about various topics, but for me you make it difficult, so I just will not continue this discussion. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis he/him Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 Um... not sure what to say now. You've told me things are my opinion when I believe they are fact. You're stating facts which I believe are incorrect. So, I'm not going to apologize for those things because I would be lying. However, I've clearly upset you as we tried to talk about this. I'm sorry that I made you feel this way. I don't concede that I've been zeroing in on unimportant details, so I'm not going to apologize for that or promise to stop doing it, but I will promise to be more careful to take people's feelings into consideration as I discuss topics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 Um... not sure what to say now. You've told me things are my opinion when I believe they are fact. You're stating facts which I believe are incorrect. So, I'm not going to apologize for those things because I would be lying. However, I've clearly upset you as we tried to talk about this. I'm sorry that I made you feel this way. I don't concede that I've been zeroing in on unimportant details, so I'm not going to apologize for that or promise to stop doing it, but I will promise to be more careful to take people's feelings into consideration as I discuss topics. I will PM you my reply so to not derail this post further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoidhunter he/him Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 Do you see what you did Arthur Dent...now people are upset! By the way...Holy Crap! We can send each other personal messages! Did you know that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RawToast225 he/him Posted December 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 Lol, that was the plan! Kind of. If things aren't at least somewhat inflammatory or controversial, then what's the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoidhunter he/him Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 Angry man: WHADDAYOU WANT? Man: Well, Well, I was told outside that... Angry man: DON'T GIVE ME THAT, YOU SNOTTY-FACED HEAP OF PARROT DROPPINGS! Man: What? A: SHUT YOUR FESTERING GOB, YOU TIT! YOUR TYPE MAKES ME PUKE! YOU VACUOUS TOFFEE-NOSED MALODOROUS PERVERT!!! M: Yes, but I came here for an argument!! A: OH! Oh! I'm sorry! This is abuse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos he/him Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 Lol, that was the plan! Kind of. If things aren't at least somewhat inflammatory or controversial, then what's the point? Um... Politely, no. That is really stupid. 17th Shard is about reasonable discourse, and there is no reason to cause drama especially for the sake of drama.If you do not like being considerate and rational then I fear you have absolutely no place on this site. This is a special corner of the internet. Consider this your (only) warning. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RawToast225 he/him Posted December 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 Um... Politely, no. That is really stupid. 17th Shard is about reasonable discourse, and there is no reason to cause drama especially for the sake of drama. If you do not like being considerate and rational then I fear you have absolutely no place on this site. This is a special corner of the internet. Consider this your (only) warning. That was not intended to be a serious comment.... I don't want to cause fights on the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos he/him Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 Good. Please be kind and considerate to everyone in the future. I find jokes about that not in good humor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RawToast225 he/him Posted December 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 Sorry, Chaos. I'll try to provide a semblance of order in my future posts. (See what I did there?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoidhunter he/him Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 (edited) So...all in all...I can definately see some significant similarites between Shadows and Dusk. I would say that maybe Brandon just wrote them close together, and was therefore in the same creative "place"...but they were actually published about a year apart. I guess the publication date dosen't really tell us when he actually convieced of and wrote them though. Especially since one is found in a collection of short stories...not an independent work like Sixth of Dusk. By the way...an up vote to the first person who can tell me where my "angry man" post came from... Edited December 20, 2014 by hoidhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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