Roshar is surprisingly submarine

[scm288]

Brandon Sanderson generally comes up with some surreal environments for his novels. The important thing to consider is that none of them are irrelevant to the story at hand. In fact, all of them are strikingly relevant.

On Scadrial, the environment and the creation thereof was one of the major elements of the trilogy--the fact that these imperfect, unwieldy deities flung the world around the solar system, and had to make major changes to the ecosystem for the humans to survive.

On Sel, the very configuration of the environment powered the Aons, allowing AonDor to work. Raoden had to correct the physical environment for AonDor to be reactivated fully.

Now we have a world--Roshar--where we have some obviously unearthly creatures roaming the landscape. Chulls, chasmfiends, and cremlings are all crustaceans. We have skyeels flitting about as if they were swimming in air. Certainly, there are the Highstorms that essentially plunge the world underwater for a short duration. But those come only every two weeks or so--not often enough to steer evolution into favoring strikingly-underwater species as the main denizens of the world.

I think something is up with the submarine fauna of Roshar. Any theories as to what that might be?

[ReaderAt2046]

Now we have a world--Roshar--where we have some obviously unearthly creatures roaming the landscape. Chulls, chasmfiends, and cremlings are all crustaceans. We have skyeels flitting about as if they were swimming in air. Certainly, there are the Highstorms that essentially plunge the world underwater for a short duration. But those come only every two weeks or so--not often enough to steer evolution into favoring strikingly-underwater species as the main denizens of the world.

I think something is up with the submarine fauna of Roshar. Any theories as to what that might be?

I think the highstorms scoured the land the way the ocean scours its bottom. So the crustaceans on Rohar are designed similarly to those on earth because the designer had a similar set of design criteria.

[Aethling]

Even on Earth, not all crustaceans are completely aquatic. Some crabs can live on land. Crawfish, while they do prefer watery environments, can and do walk around dry land. Honestly, having grownup with crawfish a common food item, I alway envisioned the cremlings as wee versions and the chasmfiends as extremly blownup versions. Chulls I always though were some type of crab offshoot, though they could be closer to lobsters or crawfish.

Nice ID reference there. I never thought about it like that, but it does fit.

Edited July 8, 2012 by Aethling

[Riddlesinthedark]

I think submarine lifeforms were Sanderson's inspiration, but that the life intended to have evolved/created for the aeolian conditions. But the sky eels is an interesting thing I hadn't given much thought.

Edited July 9, 2012 by Voldy

[Vikter]

In the episode of Writing Excuses where they discuss WotK Brandon mentions specifically going out and studying tidal pools as inspiration for Roshar. He want examples of creatures that had to thrive in two extremes of environment, where they would have to adapt to sudden shifts.

I don't recall the exact episode number but it was one of the more recent ones ( in the last month).

[Inkthinker]

WE 7.24, June 10th. About a month ago.

http://www.writingexcuses.com/2012/06/10/writing-excuses-7-24-project-in-depth-way-of-kings/

But yes, coral colonies and tidal pools were a specific inspiration. It's no accident that a Chull looks like a giant hermit crab with elephant feet, that skyeels swim through the air, or that the Axehound is a nightmare crossbreed of snapping turtle and lobster... it's at the core of what Brandon asked for in those designs, and it's all quite purposeful. He's not just doing it to be different (though that's a nice side benefit).

[name_here]

It's not that the crustaceans are aquatic; it's that they have armored shells. Exposed humans die pretty quickly in highstorms, but chulls simply shrug them off. Pretty much everything on Roshar needs to either hide like the plants or be sturdy enough to hunker down in the face of a stormwall and survive.

[king of nowhere]

the way I understand it, most creatures developed carapaces to survive highstorms. it has nothing to do with water - insects and artropoda have carapace and they live on land - but with the need to survive all the stones that get thrown around during a highstorm.

[Inkthinker]

I wouldn't say chulls "shrug off" highstorms... they hunker down and go into full-on Boulder Mode. But they are probably one of the only species that survives exposure to the storms, every other critter has to find a place to hide.

As you say, everything has evolved to deal with semi-weekly flash storms that come with 150+mph winds and rain and all that implies. What few trees exist are sturdy and thick-trunked, and most everything gets a sort of stony-exterior thanks to crem buildup.

Edited July 15, 2012 by Inkthinker

[Windrunner]

I'm actually curious as to what Roshar's real submarine life is like. They wouldn't be as impacted by the highstorms, so there could be a whole other world down there, in terms of life. I guess it depends on how much effect the storm has below the water too. Armored aquatic life would be cool to see.

[Yados]

I'm actually curious as to what Roshar's real submarine life is like. They wouldn't be as impacted by the highstorms, so there could be a whole other world down there, in terms of life. I guess it depends on how much effect the storm has below the water too. Armored aquatic life would be cool to see.

Um, it's obviously fishes that grant superpowers when ingested.

...which, I suppose means that there are a lot of fish out there with superpowers as fish tend to eat fish.

[Inkthinker]

Well, there was the giant sea-spren, and the Purelake... although the Purelake is to the center-west, and I swear I recall Brandon saying in an interview somewhere that the storms diminish in strength as they move east to west, so maybe by the time it gets there it's just a decently heavy rainfall.

[ReaderAt2046]

Um, it's obviously fishes that grant superpowers when ingested.

...which, I suppose means that there are a lot of fish out there with superpowers as fish tend to eat fish.

I don't think fish have enough of a Spiritual aspect to access the magic, just like there are no wolfhound or horse Allomancers. Llamas appear to be an exception to this rule.

[Deoradhan]

Another thing that could be interesting to consider is the matter of ecological drift. If I recall correctly there are horses in Shinovar - and presumably, other 'terrestrial' life as well. I wonder what could occur if the two ecosystems were to interact, in the unlikely event that the mountains between Shinovar and the rest of the world were to be eroded by sufficiently strong highstorms.

On that note, I'm also curious as to greatshell biology. Most terrestrial crustaceans have very simple lungs, limiting the maximum size they can grow to. If I may be permitted to speculate, I suspect that Roshar has more atmospheric oxygen than Earth. In part, this is suggested by the presence of Greatshells - and additionally, the Highstorms themselves.

Given that, I concur with Windrunner. I'd really like to see what Rosharian(?) aquatic life looks like. If the atmospheric oxygen is concentrated, there should be even more in the water - permitting even more ridiculously huge things.

[dj26792]

I think part of the reason the greatshells get as large as they do is that they feed on stormlight actually, they don't need to get more oxygen because they take energy directly through magic. what that says for oxygen content I don't know but I suspect, lower gravity would have a bigger impact on size of animals than oxygen content anyway.

Also they have horses everywhere, they just have to be placed in shelters to survive the highstorms.

[Riddlesinthedark]

I think part of the reason the greatshells get as large as they do is that they feed on stormlight actually, they don't need to get more oxygen because they take energy directly through magic. what that says for oxygen content I don't know but I suspect, lower gravity would have a bigger impact on size of animals than oxygen content anyway.

Also they have horses everywhere, they just have to be placed in shelters to survive the highstorms.

One of the reasons we no longer have 3-foot dragonflies on Earth, ignoring easier vertebrate growth, is the much lower oxygen percentage compared with 65+ million years ago; not funny business with the Earth's gravity. While "lower gravity" might have some effect (see whales vs elephants), so does oxygen pct. and island gigantism/dwarfism.

I think I like stormlight fueling animal life, though.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Voldy

[Windrunner]

The magic of Roshar is known to play an important part in its ecology, even if we aren't sure specifically how. There are mysterious spren who emerge from dead chasmfiend, who Brandon has admitted have some magical solution for the problem that chitin isn't strong enough to support them. It seems possible that these spren reduce gravity and are part of some sort of natural fabrial with the gemheart of the creature. Skyeels are also surrounded by clouds of "luckspren" who are postulated by Shallan to be attracted to something entirely different then luck. I imagine these relationships with the Investitures will become clearer as we get better ideas of how spren and fabrials work.

[Vortaan]

Isn't there an aquatic greatshell described by Sigzil to Kaladin? The eyes of blue and red quote?

[Inkthinker]

On that note, I'm also curious as to greatshell biology. Most terrestrial crustaceans have very simple lungs, limiting the maximum size they can grow to. If I may be permitted to speculate, I suspect that Roshar has more atmospheric oxygen than Earth. In part, this is suggested by the presence of Greatshells - and additionally, the Highstorms themselves.

I've got some side notes on chull biology that came about when I was doing the designs (like, how they grow giant boulders on their backs), but I don't think Brandon canonized any of it. Might come in useful someday, but it's all under wraps at his discretion. I just send stuff to him as it comes around during the design process, I expect he probably throws most of it away but every so often I get to win one

He does think about this stuff though, as do I in my (very) limited capacity. It's not all just Rule of Cool.

Edited July 31, 2012 by Inkthinker