Sadeas' Ironic Line about Uniting Them [WaT Spoilers]

[ApprenticeArtificer]

At the end of The Way of Kings Sadeas says to Dalinar after betraying him, "Ironically, your death may have been what finally united them," referring to the highprinces. Later, Sadeas' death plays a role in uniting the highprinces, making for an ironic reversal of his cynical claim.

At the end of Wind and Truth Dalinar dies and tricks Taravangian into becoming Retribution. This act unites (in purpose, at least) the other gods to finally act against Odium/Retribution.

Sadeas was more wrong than he was right, but none the less it feels prophetic that it ultimately WAS Dalinar's death that united them, he just had the wrong "Them."

Did anyone else note this correlation? Do you think it was intentional or coincidental?

[earthexile]

After reading Wind and Truth, and then going back and reading Way of Kings? Absolutely intentional. Dalinar's entire arc is bent around the conflict between following one's heart, acting practically, and acting honorably. Do I hang all the suspects or let them all go? Can I really make this darkeyed kid a Captain just because he saved my life and my son's life and thousands of my men with acts of superhuman courage and skill? Do I marry the woman I've loved for years, even though nearly everyone around us will be disturbed and offended by it? 

The specific idea of 'killing one guy to benefit everyone' comes up a lot. And in Sadeas' case, Dalinar also makes the choice to fully let the confessed murderer off the hook, because of who he is, and what he means, and what he brings to the war effort. He was specifically betrayed and nearly killed by Sadeas, along with a son and army he loves, but Dalinar's the only 'good guy' in the story who really gives a rust that his explicit "yes I am going to get you some day" Enemy has been murdered. Everyone else thinks it's either fine or good.

Are they right? I sure don't know. Elhokar was a useless prick for the most part, but he started to turn it around. Alethkar was about five minutes away from having a Radiant King reigning over a rescued capital, directly connected to Urithiru. The whole war could have gone different if just that one guy had made a little more personal progress.

So what could another year in a city of spren and heroes have done for Sadeas? What could a changing Sadeas have done with his armies, rather than leaving them to be devoured by Odium's desires and needs? Amaram sucks, but he's not worse than Dalinar, if we want to chalk up bodies and betrayals. He knew useful things and people, he was skilled, he knew how to be devoted to a cause. His life had value, and rather than being used, it had to be destroyed.

The only reason we wouldn't rather see these guys all united is that they've done terrible things and deserve to be hated. Is it wrong to hate them? It doesn't feel wrong, it feels correct and rational.

The dictionary definition of "Odium:" The state or fact of being subjected to hatred and contempt as a result of a despicable act or blameworthy circumstance.

It always makes sense in the moment.

[PanLin they/he]

On 6/19/2026 at 8:03 PM, ApprenticeArtificer said:

Sadeas was more wrong than he was right, but none the less it feels prophetic that it ultimately WAS Dalinar's death that united them, he just had the wrong "Them."

'Wrong' is an interesting word to use; I think Sadeas just had more in common with Dominion's definition of uniting people than with Honor's.

I currently think one of the Dawnshards is Merge, and that both Dominion and Honor essentially came from that and just have different methodologies on what it means to merge or increase Connection.

 

On 6/19/2026 at 8:03 PM, ApprenticeArtificer said:

Did anyone else note this correlation? Do you think it was intentional or coincidental?

100% intentional

 

This line of thinking makes me think of the debate between Taravangian and Jasnah. They both purported to fully believe in utilitarianism, and Taravangian used that to explain how his goals and methods are inevitable if you take a purely utilitarian view toward creating a stable, safe system for humanity.

I don't know if Sadeas was intentionally being utilitarian (and there was definitely more than a little ego with him, something that Taravangian coincidentally shares), and while his methods were undeniably selfish and a little evil, I don't think he was necessarily 'wrong'.

[earthexile]

3 hours ago, PanLin said:

This line of thinking makes me think of the debate between Taravangian and Jasnah. They both purported to fully believe in utilitarianism, and Taravangian used that to explain how his goals and methods are inevitable if you take a purely utilitarian view toward creating a stable, safe system for humanity.

I don't know if Sadeas was intentionally being utilitarian (and there was definitely more than a little ego with him, something that Taravangian coincidentally shares), and while his methods were undeniably selfish and a little evil, I don't think he was necessarily 'wrong'.

I think Sadeas was almost an idealist, strange as it sounds. He just had a set of ideals that made him monstrous.

He's a man of his culture and time. He spent most of his life at war with other Alethi, and as we know from a lot of Vorin people, constantly battling your neighbors isn't bad. It's what the Almighty wants. The Highprinces are attending parties together at the war front, while the people they 'rule' are still fighting wars against each other. Kaladin regards his time in Sadeas' army as an audition for a chance at meaningful service, not the appalling tragedy of misrule that it so clearly is. Imagine living in Vermont, having violent regular battles against New Hampshire, and meanwhile both your Governors are hitting nightclubs in Tunisia and acting like friends.

Telling these traditional Alethi aristocrats to stop fighting and act like a real nation, is like trying to tell Americans to stop driving cars and watching TV. You can stand there explaining how obviously better it would be, but most of them aren't going to hear you. You'll just be a weirdo who snapped under the pressure of keeping up with how life is supposed to be.

We see Sadeas make choices against his own preferences, *just* to spite Dalinar and stay fighting, while knowing for sure that Dalinar has the right idea. The uniform thing, for example. His inner monologue is that he'd like to stick to old school respectable military dress, but Dalinar's making a point of it, so he's got to make a point of going the other way. Letting his men be slovenly, disorganized, and cruel to each other, because Dalinar's being such a prude about these Codes. Leaving thousands of able-bodied Alethi to die uselessly on the rocks, men who are (on paper) on HIS side of this war. But they're Dalinar's men, so... screw 'em.

His need to be the opposition and bedevil Dalinar leads him into many impractical, wasteful moves. I don't think Sadeas is a utilitarian, I think he's the product of a culture and politics designed to make men fight everything around them, forever.