Mint Heron Posted January 9 Posted January 9 10 minutes ago, Taupe Gecko said: What if we get Octo to just... not shoot? Honestly, we're in a great position right now, but because we've got three dead elims and 0 villa deaths, the villa to elim ratio has got to be insane. Octo's shot will almost certainly take out an ally... so why take it? It's not like we're under any imminent pressure 16 minutes ago, Scarlet Octopus said: That is my initial plan, actually. I planned not to kill anyone tonight. But I think letting the village vote is better. If you don't want me to kill, write No Kill Honestly? Some of it is the night exe debate, which is something that's been tried and historically just doesn't do very much. The idea I'm proposing is not new and a number of CSes have turned their kill into a secondary exe before. It's just that people are generally tired af and don't wanna do it at night. I initially considered suggesting it as the pragmatic way of dealing with the Ocho debate but also was too damned tired/deadline stress and FUDed to wanna deal with it. The appeal is that the CS explicitly gets something to go off, and that it puts pressure on the Elims at Night, because if they're named as a popular kill target, the pressure mounts unless they have a Lurcher. But that being said, once you agree to the idea no one is dying, there is no pressure and therefore no point. (Similar to an exe - no exe isn't the end of the world but if you start out agreeing it's gonna be a no exe, then nothing gets done because everyone knows nothing that happens that Turn will affect anyone's wincon.) But also never tell me the odds man, we just exed two Elims in a row and Ocho took down a third >:) (Watch me find out tomorrow we MLed or something ) 15 minutes ago, Scarlet Octopus said: I agree. I would like all kill requests to me made in Bolded blue text in thread. You can still PM me kill suggestions, but I will post them and who sent them in the thread.
Taupe Gecko Posted January 9 Posted January 9 2 minutes ago, Mint Heron said: Honestly? Some of it is the night exe debate, which is something that's been tried and historically just doesn't do very much. The idea I'm proposing is not new and a number of CSes have turned their kill into a secondary exe before. It's just that people are generally tired af and don't wanna do it at night. I initially considered suggesting it as the pragmatic way of dealing with the Ocho debate but also was too damned tired/deadline stress and FUDed to wanna deal with it. The appeal is that the CS explicitly gets something to go off, and that it puts pressure on the Elims at Night, because if they're named as a popular kill target, the pressure mounts unless they have a Lurcher. But that being said, once you agree to the idea no one is dying, there is no pressure and therefore no point. (Similar to an exe - no exe isn't the end of the world but if you start out agreeing it's gonna be a no exe, then nothing gets done because everyone knows nothing that happens that Turn will affect anyone's wincon.) But also never tell me the odds man, we just exed two Elims in a row and Ocho took down a third >:) (Watch me find out tomorrow we MLed or something ) MLed?
Mint Heron Posted January 9 Posted January 9 4 minutes ago, Taupe Gecko said: MLed? Misexed a Villager.
Melon Dingo Posted January 9 Posted January 9 LOL ok wow. Has this happened in SE before? 3 elims to 0 villagers dead? Ok so, skimming last night I think I agree that makes Flamingo look good as well. I think thats the main thing that does for reads but ill have to go back and actually read it later. As for the shot, im more pro using it largely just because it'd be pretty funny if we can kill all the elims before anyone dies. Idk if that's possible as it depends a bit on luck but its more likely to happen if we use the coinshot lol As for the team we're in a 20 person game and we know they had rioter so id guess theres 1-2 elims left. 3 left for 6 total is possible but I dont think it likely in a game with an e!rioter.
Onyx Flamingo Posted January 9 Posted January 9 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mint Heron said: Yeah I got a feeling given Iggy's role they were trying to harvest Ocho. Edit: Flamingo voting Iggy to make it a 5/5 tie + that convo with Iggy... I think they're unpaired. Just the interaction with Flam not being aware Iggy already self-pres voted feels very natural rather than fabricated. (At EoD.) My apologies Flam I've come around to a v!Flam world. Edited January 9 by Onyx Flamingo
Ivory Dragonfly Posted January 9 Posted January 9 1 hour ago, Scarlet Octopus said: I agree. I would like all kill requests to me made in Bolded blue text in thread. You can still PM me kill suggestions, but I will post them and who sent them in the thread. That is my initial plan, actually. I planned not to kill anyone tonight. But I think letting the village vote is better. If you don't want me to kill, write No Kill Edit: I wonder what the dead doc looks like right now Quote All out of game discussion should be in blue once the game starts. This applies to everything that is unrelated to the game, mostly pertaining to real life events/situations that affect your ability to play or that you wish to share with the other players. Site issues like the server going down and being unable to access the site or a site update creating problems in other parts of the site that affect the game would be blue-text as well. If it pertains directly to the game itself in any way, keep it in black. Kill
Onyx Flamingo Posted January 9 Posted January 9 2 minutes ago, Ivory Dragonfly said: Kill I agree, Kill
Scarlet Octopus Posted January 9 Posted January 9 1 minute ago, Ivory Dragonfly said: I didn't realise that, so maybe purple would be a better color. 2 minutes ago, Ivory Dragonfly said: Kill Who?
Melon Dingo Posted January 9 Posted January 9 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Ivory Dragonfly said: Kill Ok so im colorblind, but i think thats purple? I think Drsgonfly is saying let's use a non-blue color as thats against SE rules. Ninjad Edit: Ill be honest though I cant meaningfully tell the difference between that color and blue Dragonfly do you need us to post a player list? Maybe you cant echo the writeup? Violet Axolotl: Fletcher (Past Lives) Taupe Gecko: H.E.A.R.T.H. (Past Lives) Sunburst Toucan: Ophelia Desci (Forgetful) Scarlet Octopus: Chiji Kaido (Silverist) Sapphire Elephant: Klin (Merchant) Salmon Meerkat: Dugh Thomas (Arrogant) Sage Kangaroo: Saboteur kandra meal Saffron Iguana: Saboteur Kandra Quartz Zebra: Finch (Tinkerer) Plum Rhinoceros: Art (Stowaway) Pearl Chameleon: Neugier (Past Lives) Oxblood Beagle: Levin (Past Lives) Opal Lion: Dusk (Sleepy Old Man) Onyx Flamingo: Frisk (Past Lives) Mint Heron: Zense (Ship's Musician) Melon Dingo: Stormseeker the Wise (Returned) Mauve Crocodile: Saboteur Rioter Magenta Albatross: Rane Cauthon (Gambler) Ivory Dragonfly: Echo (Echo) Indigo Weasel: Third of the Tide (Liar) Edited January 9 by Melon Dingo
Ivory Dragonfly Posted January 9 Posted January 9 Quote Ok so im colorblind ! No kill Melon Dingo Quote thats purple ^ Kill Plum Rhino
Scarlet Octopus Posted January 9 Posted January 9 3 minutes ago, Onyx Flamingo said: I agree, Kill Also, who? Just now, Ivory Dragonfly said: ! No kill Melon Dingo ^ Kill Plum Rhino Noted
Melon Dingo Posted January 9 Posted January 9 3 minutes ago, Ivory Dragonfly said: ! No kill Melon Dingo Because im color blind? Lol 3 minutes ago, Scarlet Octopus said: Noted Hmm someone who GMs games perhaps
Scarlet Octopus Posted January 9 Posted January 9 3 minutes ago, Melon Dingo said: Hmm someone who GMs games perhaps Or i just say that a lot
Mint Heron Posted January 9 Posted January 9 Ok. May not have the time since this deadline thing is dragging out so let's commit to at least a brief credence update: Moderate Village: Beagle, Dragonfly, Gecko, Axl Weak Village: Flam, Dingo, Weasel (I would say this is the tier and above you never shoot.) Null+: Toucan, Zebra, Tross Null: Lion, Cham (Also don't kill these guys, they either get replaced or filter killed) Should Have Opinion But Ain't Got Nothing: Meerkat Null-: Ele, Rhino There's probably a world where Meerkat leaving no impression in my memory is meaningful but I don't have the energy to process. Between Ele and Rhino, I lean Rhino largely on D2 EoD grounds, but respect if people who've paid more attention/had more time/energy can correct me on this one because yeah.
Ivory Dragonfly Posted January 9 Posted January 9 31 minutes ago, Melon Dingo said: Because im color blind? Lol Meaningful Memory < 3
Taupe Gecko Posted January 9 Posted January 9 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mint Heron said: Ok. May not have the time since this deadline thing is dragging out so let's commit to at least a brief credence update: Moderate Village: Beagle, Dragonfly, Gecko, Axl Weak Village: Flam, Dingo, Weasel (I would say this is the tier and above you never shoot.) Null+: Toucan, Zebra, Tross Null: Lion, Cham (Also don't kill these guys, they either get replaced or filter killed) Should Have Opinion But Ain't Got Nothing: Meerkat Null-: Ele, Rhino There's probably a world where Meerkat leaving no impression in my memory is meaningful but I don't have the energy to process. Between Ele and Rhino, I lean Rhino largely on D2 EoD grounds, but respect if people who've paid more attention/had more time/energy can correct me on this one because yeah. I feel like Meerkat did some anti-Kanga stuff D1 If we have to kill someone, I’m backing Toucan Edit: For everyone I confused with PMs 4 hours ago, Taupe Gecko said: H.E.A.R.T.H had lived multiple lives before this one. Of that he was certain. Yet in all the lives, never had he been so unsure. He had fought wars. He had waded through hell, and found solace in suffering. But he had always followed orders. But now... he could no longer follow. For there was no one to give the orders. Now, H.E.A.R.T.H had to choose. Yet he fought it. He wanted to force a tie, because he knew that today, today they might not be so lucky. Today an innocent soul could die. In past lives, he had killed hundreds of innocent souls. It weighed him down, but he could not focus on that now. So instead, he cast his vote, and waited. The halls of the ship were silent. No, not silent. Patient. They knew what was coming. Everyone did. "Toucan." The word rang out alone. And with that, it was yet another tie.Yet another choice of an indecision. Three ways this time. It was not ideal, but it would do. It was done. H.E.A.R.T.H didn't know what else to do. For once, for the first time, he wished for the touch of another, for someone. To be someone. But he could not have that. So instead, he told a story. "This is the tale of a boy." The voice rang out through the comms system, reaching everyone, everywhere, all at once. H.E.A.R.T.H hesitated. The voice was so loud. Then he went on. "This is the tale of a boy, and a girl. "The boy and girl lived in a village. This tale is set in the olden times, times of dirt and blood and wildness. The boy was a warrior's son, mighty and strong. Or at least his father was. The boy was thin, weak, scared. The girl was the mason's daughter, but she... she was strong. And she was never scared. "They grew up together, did everything together. She led, and he followed. She smiled, and he became stronger. With her, he could do anything, and everything was perfect. Then one day, the monsters came. They were small, and pink, and naked. But they were deadly. So deadly. The town burned to the ground, and the monsters took everything. Only the boy and girl survived, because they had gone out to explore and returned to ruins. When they saw the town, they wept, for they had lost everything, and they could never go back. It was all over. But that is not where the story ends. "Then He came. He promised Retribution. And the boy and girl... so little, so pained... accepted. He gave them powers. He replaced their families with weapons, their love with Passion. But it was okay. Because they still had each other. And together, they went to war. "They fought the monsters. They weren't children anymore. They killed, and slaughtered, and got their revenge. But it never changed the past. And then, one day, they got separated. The boy was pulled away, and in his fury, he was stabbed. The girl arrived, and carried him, but she was too late. She smiled down at him, but her face was wet. His face was wet too. And in her arms, he died." H.E.A.R.T.H stopped. "But our story does not end there either. "After his death, the boy went to Damnation. He suffered more than he ever had. In a world of flame and ash and pain, he burned beautifully. And, you see, that was when everything changed." "The flame charred the boy's soul. The ash erased his past. The pain forged his fury. And though he would fight for far longer, he would never be just a boy again." Edited January 9 by Taupe Gecko
Indigo Weasel Posted January 9 Posted January 9 So I didn’t notice it was night, so my bad, so here’s what I put in the day 2. (In response to people asking why I’m assuming people are experienced rather than inexperienced) You are right, people may not see the same things. I’m considering everyone as experienced and knowing what they’re doing, because in my opinion, overestimating them is better than underestimating them. If I assume people are new-ish, that doesn’t tell me exactly what they’re at. Different people start at different lvls of being good at this. If I assume everyone’s experienced, that means there’s only one value I have to think about. Out of the two, did rather assume they’re experienced, because that means I won’t throw something aside based on their “inexperience” plus, I’m pretty sure the Elims probably have someone deepwolfing as a inexperienced person So, now my opinions on what happened so far, Iguana being a saboteur does make me more likely to believe Octo is actually the village coinshot, as much as I think his reasoning is sketchy. I advocate against killing anyone with coinshot right now.
Taupe Gecko Posted January 9 Posted January 9 Just now, Indigo Weasel said: So I didn’t notice it was night, so my bad, so here’s what I put in the day 2. (In response to people asking why I’m assuming people are experienced rather than inexperienced) You are right, people may not see the same things. I’m considering everyone as experienced and knowing what they’re doing, because in my opinion, overestimating them is better than underestimating them. If I assume people are new-ish, that doesn’t tell me exactly what they’re at. Different people start at different lvls of being good at this. If I assume everyone’s experienced, that means there’s only one value I have to think about. Out of the two, did rather assume they’re experienced, because that means I won’t throw something aside based on their “inexperience” plus, I’m pretty sure the Elims probably have someone deepwolfing as a inexperienced person So, now my opinions on what happened so far, Iguana being a saboteur does make me more likely to believe Octo is actually the village coinshot, as much as I think his reasoning is sketchy. I advocate against killing anyone with coinshot right now. I respect all those stances
Melon Dingo Posted January 9 Posted January 9 (edited) I dont have anything to say about Weasels assumptions but I just generally want to say in these games I think its better to assume experience than to assume inexperience. Where I may differ from Weasel is I dont think experience = playing optimally or even well. (Look at me i almost never play well (though I have had some good games in the past) xD). Also want to throw out there that there are many people, even staples of the community, who just dont find optimal play as fun as suboptimal play. And then people differ on what optimal play is... and when talking about or making AI decisions based on this kind of meta stuff its important to remember all of this. To be clear I am not prescribing any conclusions or saying that any votes or analysis this game was bad/wrong just we need to think about this stuff. Especially in AN games where players may also be trying to mask who they are so its harder to know if a certain kind of play is AI for them or not. Edit: Quote I dont have anything to say about Weasels assumptions but I just generally want to say in these games I think its better to assume experience than to assume inexperience. Even if I dont always do it, I know i should Edited January 9 by Melon Dingo
Magenta Albatross Posted January 10 Posted January 10 (edited) RNG for the W lol Cauthons always win the toss this is such a ridiculous game lol Edited to Add: lol this looks really stupid once I actually reread EoD Edited January 10 by Magenta Albatross
Sapphire Elephant Posted January 10 Posted January 10 3 elims down? Wow. I've never played a game of this size, would there be 1 or 2 more? Alright at this point I believe Octopus is really the Coinshot. I don't have much to say, I'll be quite busy today. I'll see if I can go through Night 1. ~ @Taupe Gecko "It's hard to find good stories these days," Klin said, handing H.E.A.R.T.H. one of his copies of The Way of Kings. "And that was a good one."
Taupe Gecko Posted January 10 Posted January 10 39 minutes ago, Sapphire Elephant said: 3 elims down? Wow. I've never played a game of this size, would there be 1 or 2 more? Alright at this point I believe Octopus is really the Coinshot. I don't have much to say, I'll be quite busy today. I'll see if I can go through Night 1. Stop Stop right now If you use the philosophy of rereading everything, you won’t get anywhere cause you’ll never catch up Skip N1 and read the day Then skip N2 and live in the present D3 48 minutes ago, Sapphire Elephant said: "It's hard to find good stories these days," Klin said, handing H.E.A.R.T.H. one of his copies of The Way of Kings. "And that was a good one." H.E.A.R.T.H’s hands trembled as it lifted the perfectly weighted tome from Klin’s hold. ”Thank you.”
Indigo Weasel Posted January 10 Posted January 10 30 minutes ago, Taupe Gecko said: Stop Stop right now If you use the philosophy of rereading everything, you won’t get anywhere cause you’ll never catch up Skip N1 and read the day Then skip N2 and live in the present D3 H.E.A.R.T.H’s hands trembled as it lifted the perfectly weighted tome from Klin’s hold. ”Thank you.” It’s night 2?
Sapphire Elephant Posted January 10 Posted January 10 28 minutes ago, Taupe Gecko said: Stop Stop right now If you use the philosophy of rereading everything, you won’t get anywhere cause you’ll never catch up Skip N1 and read the day Then skip N2 and live in the present D3 H.E.A.R.T.H’s hands trembled as it lifted the perfectly weighted tome from Klin’s hold. ”Thank you.” Alright, alright. ~ Klin nodded. "Breaths, The Way of Kings, and an Honorblade are still for sale!" he called to anyone who would listen. 1 minute ago, Indigo Weasel said: It’s night 2? Not for long By the time I finish reading Day 2, it'll be Day 3
Melon Dingo Posted January 10 Posted January 10 (edited) Double post since it's been a long time Reads Spoiler Violet Axolotl: Lean Elim - Followed Iguana's vote on Kanga then when tied with Dragonfly D1 voted on DF to break the tie. Said they were willing to hear DF's defense and then in the same post imply they won't be back on until after rollover which feels weird to me. Sat on a hesitant vote on Octo and following posts were 1 line ones. Final post was during the time when Octopus was massively in the lead. Taupe Gecko: Village - instrumental in votes on both Kanga and Iguana Sunburst Toucan: Neutral - Not really a lot to go on. Most posts are 1 few sentances or RP. Hard to extract a lot. Scarlet Octopus: Village/Contingent - I already did analysis of them but quick read through of posts again lots of RP back and forth with Kanga & Croc. Voted on Dragonfly train over Kanga train to tie with Croc train which was in the lead at the time (note: iguana was on Kanga at the time) RP rest of cycle. Last post was 13 hours before rollover if my math is right so if elim may not have known about the Kanga line train Octopus is only an elim if elims have a lurcher imo. which would mean 2-3 more. Too risky to claim credit for killing Croc and get targetted by a coinshot. If Octo is a e!CS then there is still one kill out there elims don't control. If they are a e!NotCS then they DEFINITELY need a lurcher to protect from village kills. Or they are a village CS. That's most likely Sapphire Elephant: Elim - Spent a lot of time in thread doing RP and responding to surface level game stuff but the only read they gave was elim!Octo which they backed off of when pressed but then voted on Octo again. Asked everyone to explain the Iguana exe to them and in the same post said they were getting offline which is just weird. Salmon Meerkat: lean village - 3rd vote on Kangaroo D1 bringing Kanga within 1 vote of DF. I think their analysis doesn't make much sense either on D2. Maybe they didn't realize that DF and Gecko were 2/3 driving the Kanga exe? Quartz Zebra: Slight Elim - Lot's of lovely RP but advocated for both counter trains to Iguana. Sus on Croc C1 but I don't think there was much pressure there. I would think they'd want to save Kanga but they don't have a post near rollover so unless someone saw them online in the last hour they may have not had the opportunity to save them. Plum Rhinoceros: slight Elim - Have been gut v!reading posts. Though I think that's because I recognize the style of analysis. D2 Sus on Toucan and Iguana but votes Toucan over Iguana and has a post saying Iguana is damned by move off of Kanga. Said that their vote has the intent of protecting Octo but didn't move vote when it was a 3-way-tie and they posted. Pearl Chameleon: Inactive Oxblood Beagle: Village - instrumental in votes on both Kanga and Iguana Opal Lion: Inactive Onyx Flamingo: Lean Village - was the tying vote on Iguana. Had established earlier in the day they were sus of Octopus so definitely didn't need to vote on Iguana. Mint Heron: SK (obv, this is a joke but if there was an SK in this game I would be so certain it's Heron lol. Not seriously reading heron this cycle) Melon Dingo: Me! Hi! Magenta Albatross: Slight Village - I disagree with I think how they reached all of their conclusions but feels villiger-y to me Ivory Dragonfly: Village - instrumental in votes on both Kanga and part of vote on Iguana Indigo Weasel: Lean Village - A lot of back and forth with Croc. Some weird posts. Read Kangaroo as Elim pretty hard and voted on them after the 3 back to back DF votes. This puts Kangaroo within 1 of the (now) tied trains between Dragonfly and Axolotl. D1 after this point feels villagery. D2 the first half is villagery and the second half I skimmed harder and don't have strong opinions on. After going through all of that, I'm ok with the CS targeting Rhino, Zebra, Elephant, or Axolotl However since I think the votes are currently just Rhino (2): Dragonfly, Heron I'll vote Sapphire Elephant Rhino (2): Dragonfly, Heron Elephant (1): Dingo @Scarlet Octopus if you see this edit: whoops not a double post anymore xD Edited January 10 by Melon Dingo
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