An Alternative Plan to Weaken Ruin

[Trusk'our he/him]

In the conflict on Scadrial in Era 1, Ruin's balance with Preservation is of key importance. This made it extremely difficult for either Shard to act without the other opposing the action, or being able to poke holes through their plans in some other way.

So, what if Rashek decided to do something to tip the scales in Preservation's favor?

Technically, there's little humans could do to drain a Shard, though the Pits of Hathsin were enough to balance the scales so to speak, so they wouldn't have to sequester too much power to make a noticeable difference.

With that in mind, let's say Rashek decides to spit in Ruin's face by Hemalurgically spiking a Feruchemist and an Allomancer for paired iron powers, then secretly implanting those spikes into a Koloss hidden away that can be broken in with his Emotional Allomancy. The Koloss is trained to Compound and Invest Ironminds over time, perhaps using Allomantic duralumin as well if Rashek wants to speed things up. These Ironminds are swapped out after being filled, then melted down into huge iron obelisks that can be shoved into Rashek's secret underground lair or be towed to the edge of the Final Empire to be buried in a secure location, far from where the large clumps of Investiture could conceivably do harm or otherwise be tweaked by Ruin to bring down Scadrial.

Since Hemalurgic spikes are being used to Compound, I believe this means Ruin is being drawn from to fuel the process, not Preservation. Keep this up over the centuries (frequently swapping out Koloss or creating new spikes), bleeding away Ruin's Investiture bit by bit, and effectively dumping it in a way that can be kept away from Ruin's practical reach.

 

It does make me wonder though, what if Preservation did have the Investiture advantage? Would Ruin be forever stumped despite Leras having broken his word? Well, okay, other Shards would eventually get involved still, but Preservation might have more room to directly act, maybe empower the people more.

[Nitpicking]

I don't think the details of what you're describing would work. I'm pretty sure feruchemy is of Preservation no matter how you get it.

But if you started hoarding endless numbers of hemalurgic spikes in your underground lair? Hmm ...

It would arguably be an even more evil thing to do than Taravangian's murder-for-prophecy scheme (which, be it noted, totally failed to help The Diagram in any way whatsoever, as far as I can tell).

[Trusk'our he/him]

10 hours ago, Nitpicking said:

I don't think the details of what you're describing would work. I'm pretty sure feruchemy is of Preservation no matter how you get it.

Technically, isn't vanilla Feruchemy of both Ruin and Preservation?

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/358-fanx-2018/#e11119

Questioner

With Allomancy is of Preservation, and you have Hemalurgy, which is of Ruin. Is Feruchemy a joint effort between the two? Or is it a third party?

Brandon Sanderson

Joint effort.

If you draw from natural Compounding, the resulting Investiture should be of Preservation, I believe. It's using Preservation's Art to fuel it, after all.

Hemalurgically obtained Compounding is weirder, but my thinking is that Ruin's Intent changes the stolen Investiture to match its own, at least for the duration of its capture. If so, it's reasonable to assume, I believe, that Compounded attributes via Hemalurgy would use the Shard of Ruin as its true source of power and untapped Metalminds created through such a process would have a miniscule but measurable detraction from the Shard.

10 hours ago, Nitpicking said:

But if you started hoarding endless numbers of hemalurgic spikes in your underground lair? Hmm ...

You know, I'm not sure it would have an impact unless you specifically stole Ruinous pieces of Investiture within people's or creature's Spiritwebs and left the parts of Preservation untouched.

The Shard of Ruin seems to facilitate the transfer of attributes in Hemalurgy, using metal as a focus, which I think could be compared to how Allomancy draws power from Preservation but then sends it back shortly thereafter, leaving the Shard largely unchanged.

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/105-17th-shard-forum-qa/#e1266

Master_Moridin

Why does Preservation fueling Allomancy not weaken Preservation compared to Ruin?

Brandon Sanderson

Because the power, once used, returns to him--much as water, after passing over a turbine, continues on in its system.

If the contents held in the spikes are another Shard's Investiture, just altered and warped to fit Ruin's Intent as I suspect, then keeping the spikes around should actually weaken the donor's parent Shard (likely Preservation in this case, as there's more of it in Scadrians than Ruin), not Ruin.

Edited October 13, 2025 by Trusk'our

[Returned he/him]

It's an interesting idea, and I think that maybe it could work (though there are some strong assumptions in the plan that I'm not 100% sure I'd sign on to). I can think of a couple of issues that might interfere, or at least might be worth answering:

1. Scale. Against effectively infinite power, would storing some of it an ounce at a time make a difference?
2. Intent. Sazed muses that Ruin's nature might influence how atium (the era 1 variant, at least) operates even when used Allomantically. If we somehow changed the stored weight to be meaningfully Ruinous weight, could we still rely on it to be inert enough to weaken Ruin?
3. Secrecy. Ruin can't see through metal, so storing metal underground in metal-rich caves while also running a distraction scheme suggesting the atium was elsewhere was effective. Hiding a Hemalurgic being to whom you deliver food and metal seems easier to detect. There is at least some reason to think that Ruin would still be able to influence the Koloss, too, especially with extra spikes for iron compounding.
4. Scope. Is this even how it works? The amount of power used by Allomancers seems utterly irrelevant to the amount a Shard has. What did make a difference to Preservation and Ruin was the amount of themselves they permanently installed in Scadrial. Preservation's permanent investment was mostly in humans, with just a handful of lerasium beads and the mists/metal at the Well otherwise manifesting physically. Ruin's manifestation was the atium geodes in the Pits. It seems like Ruin's primary issue was not knowing where the atium was-- finding it was his big priority, and once it was all burned his schemes were ruined (appropriate!). The direct, physical manifestation of Ruin in atium might be different than some expression of the Shard's power stored in a container, and even if it didn't do we think that the Ruin-as-stored-weight is different from Ruin-as-atium in terms of weakening Ruin himself? I'm not certain.

 

[Trusk'our he/him]

On 10/14/2025 at 1:35 PM, Returned said:

It's an interesting idea, and I think that maybe it could work (though there are some strong assumptions in the plan that I'm not 100% sure I'd sign on to).

Yeah, admittedly a lot of my hypotheses are somewhat flimsy, relying on incomplete information, so that's pretty understandable. I just like to consider what could happen if they do happen to flow in that direction.

On 10/14/2025 at 1:35 PM, Returned said:

1. Scale. Against effectively infinite power, would storing some of it an ounce at a time make a difference?

          . . .

1. Scope. Is this even how it works? The amount of power used by Allomancers seems utterly irrelevant to the amount a Shard has. What did make a difference to Preservation and Ruin was the amount of themselves they permanently installed in Scadrial. Preservation's permanent investment was mostly in humans, with just a handful of lerasium beads and the mists/metal at the Well otherwise manifesting physically. Ruin's manifestation was the atium geodes in the Pits. It seems like Ruin's primary issue was not knowing where the atium was-- finding it was his big priority, and once it was all burned his schemes were ruined (appropriate!)

I think it could be effective, as the finite Investiture available in the Pits and the Trustwarren were enough to guarantee an immediate victory for Ruin. The power of the two Shards is nearly infinite, yes, but small differences in their balance did make a real difference in the long run. 

Spoiler

Hero of Ages Epigraphs 47

47

Ruin's prison was not like those that hold men. He wasn't bound by bars. In fact, he could move about freely. His prison, rather, was one of impotence. In the terms of forces and gods, this meant balance. If Ruin were to push, the prison would push back, essentially rendering Ruin powerless. And because much of his power was stripped away and hidden, he was unable to affect the world in any but the most subtle of ways. I should stop here and clarify something. We speak of Ruin being "freed" from his prison. But that is misleading. Releasing the power at the Well tipped the aforementioned balance back toward Ruin, but he was still too weak to destroy the world in the blink of an eye as he yearned to do. This weakness was caused by part of Ruin's power—his very body—having been taken and hidden from him. Which was why Ruin became so obsessed with finding the hidden part of his self.

Now, it would certainly be most effective while Ruin was still trapped in the Well and couldn't affect the world as much, especially preventing it from retrieving its severed power, like the Atium. Ruin still would have ended the world in this state if nothing changed, it just would have taken a long time- unless, I think, if Preservation was made slightly stronger instead, which would keep the volatile power in check.

If Ruin gets out of the Well. . . I don't actually think my proposed tactic would be too effective, especially if it doesn't count as being Splintered like the Atium, hiding it from Ruin's direct Connection senses. Even if Ruin couldn't find it after escaping the Well, it seems the balance between the two Shards favored Ruin after it escaping despite the Atium loss. It just isn't feasible to siphon off enough Investiture to make a difference with this strategy if the Shard gets out.

Spoiler

Hero of Ages epigraphs, 46-48

46	Ruin's escape deserves some explanation. This is a thing that even I had a problem understanding. Ruin could not have used the power at the Well of Ascension. It was of Preservation, Ruin's fundamental opposite. Indeed, a direct confrontation of these two forces would have caused the destruction of both. Ruin's prison, however, was fabricated of that power. Therefore, it was attuned to the power of Preservation—the very power of the Well. When that power was released and dispersed, rather than utilized, it acted as a key. The subsequent "unlocking" is what finally freed Ruin.
47	Ruin's prison was not like those that hold men. He wasn't bound by bars. In fact, he could move about freely. His prison, rather, was one of impotence. In the terms of forces and gods, this meant balance. If Ruin were to push, the prison would push back, essentially rendering Ruin powerless. And because much of his power was stripped away and hidden, he was unable to affect the world in any but the most subtle of ways. I should stop here and clarify something. We speak of Ruin being "freed" from his prison. But that is misleading. Releasing the power at the Well tipped the aforementioned balance back toward Ruin, but he was still too weak to destroy the world in the blink of an eye as he yearned to do. This weakness was caused by part of Ruin's power—his very body—having been taken and hidden from him. Which was why Ruin became so obsessed with finding the hidden part of his self.
48	Once "freed," Ruin was able to affect the world more directly. The most obvious way he did this was by making the ashmounts emit more ash and the earth begin to break apart. As a matter of fact, I believe that much of Ruin's energy during those last days was dedicated to these tasks.

On 10/14/2025 at 1:35 PM, Returned said:

1. Intent. Sazed muses that Ruin's nature might influence how atium (the era 1 variant, at least) operates even when used Allomantically. If we somehow changed the stored weight to be meaningfully Ruinous weight, could we still rely on it to be inert enough to weaken Ruin?

         . . .

The direct, physical manifestation of Ruin in atium might be different than some expression of the Shard's power stored in a container, and even if it didn't do we think that the Ruin-as-stored-weight is different from Ruin-as-atium in terms of weakening Ruin himself? I'm not certain.

I'm not sure this would be an issue. If Investiture, in any form, were pulled off and sequestered from Ruin as whole, would that not reduce the total power it had to throw around?

On 10/14/2025 at 1:35 PM, Returned said:

1. Secrecy. Ruin can't see through metal, so storing metal underground in metal-rich caves while also running a distraction scheme suggesting the atium was elsewhere was effective. Hiding a Hemalurgic being to whom you deliver food and metal seems easier to detect. There is at least some reason to think that Ruin would still be able to influence the Koloss, too, especially with extra spikes for iron compounding.

Yeah, it would be hard to keep it from Ruin's knowledge, I believe.

The biggest hope is really to keep Ruin in the Well, which lets the collected Investiture make a difference. It wouldn't matter if Ruin knew where the Metalminds were if it lacked the ability to overpower Preservation and metabolize them back into itself.

 

[Duxredux he/him]

Well... actually the way that you would probably do this is by having the koloss operate as labor in an iron mine. You don't need to supply them with food, they can eat dirt. You don't need to supply them with metal, they mine it. Ruin can't see into underground metal deposits anyway. Refining it for Allomantic purposes would require extra work or eyes, but using Koloss for heavy labor in TFE seems like common sense if you are willing to maintain constant control of them. Let them move the raw and refined metal and eat a couple bars on the sly. Make their swords out of Feruchemical iron and let those be the Compounding sinks and just swap them out when full. Beyond that, as you rotate out Koloss Compounders, the stores are Identity locked to the deceased and much harder to access the Investiture. Destroy the F-Iron spike and they are all effectively Identity locked. For it to be useful it simply has to be at least marginally comparable to the rather slow rate of harvest of one Atium geode per slave per week, which isn't even pure Atium but an alloy.

Really, the two biggest catches I see with this is that we still haven't cracked the hoops to jump through for Hemalurgic Compounding to work - meaning we don't know if there are complications that would render this strategy with a Koloss unviable. I also can't remember anything that confirms that Allomancy stolen via Hemalurgy is powered by Ruin. It might still be forcing that chunk of soul to draw from Preservation anyway.

Greater Cosmere Spoilers:

Spoiler

Something makes me think... that if the Allomancy were powered by Ruin there would be a blantant and recognizable difference in the pulse pattern that a Seeker hears. Okay, now granted we know that Ruin is one of the few entities confirmed to be able to mimic another Shard's rhythm signature, but that was with Ruin's overt attention and control. I feel like Marsh should have picked up something was off when training Vin as a Seeker if Ruin's power was manifesting as she burned Bronze.

On the flip side, Hemalurgists repelled Preservation's Mists, so something was going on when they burned metal.

Edited October 22, 2025 by Duxredux

[DracoAdamantus he/him]

I think we aren't looking at the actual power that is Hemalurgy correctly.

• Allomancy - Burning metals to access Preservation's investiture
• Feruchemy - Storing your own attributes in metal and retrieving them later
• Hemalurgy - Stealing and transferring parts of a person's spiritweb using metal spikes

The only actual power of Ruin at play here is everything about the spikes EXCEPT for whatever was stolen. The facts that spikes can steal attributes and abilities, that spikes can attach parts of a stolen spirit web to another, and that stabbing someone through the eye or heart with a hemalurgic spike doesn't kill them, that's the power of Ruin at play here. But I would think the stolen piece of the spiritweb itself is the same as it was before it was stolen (aside from being decreased in power due to the net-loss), it doesn't automatically become "of Ruin" when it is stolen.

Compounding with spikes, even if you can get over that compounding with hemalurgy issue, would only store up a bunch of investiture from Preservation.

[Trusk'our he/him]

55 minutes ago, DracoAdamantus said:

I think we aren't looking at the actual power that is Hemalurgy correctly.

• Allomancy - Burning metals to access Preservation's investiture
• Feruchemy - Storing your own attributes in metal and retrieving them later
• Hemalurgy - Stealing and transferring parts of a person's spiritweb using metal spikes

The only actual power of Ruin at play here is everything about the spikes EXCEPT for whatever was stolen. The facts that spikes can steal attributes and abilities, that spikes can attach parts of a stolen spirit web to another, and that stabbing someone through the eye or heart with a hemalurgic spike doesn't kill them, that's the power of Ruin at play here. But I would think the stolen piece of the spiritweb itself is the same as it was before it was stolen (aside from being decreased in power due to the net-loss), it doesn't automatically become "of Ruin" when it is stolen.

Compounding with spikes, even if you can get over that compounding with hemalurgy issue, would only store up a bunch of investiture from Preservation.

What about those bearing Hemalurgic spikes repelling the Mists?

The power stolen and stapled isn't entirely the same thing it was in the donor, I believe. There may be changes made to it, such as with

Stormlight Warbreaker spoilers: 

Spoiler

Nightblood. 

Doesn't it strike you as odd that the Awakened sword that alignes so perfectly with Ruin's Intent does not exhibit the colors or Intents of the many other Invested Intents its consumed, nor even the rainbow hues of the Breath it was made with in the first place?

It is my personal theory that Ruin's Intent has a unique ability (just like how Autonomy can apparently boot other Investitures away or Honor bind more thoroughly when used by their respective Shards), that of causing a sort of corruptive entropy that can at least temporarily override another Investiture's Intent.

It would also fit with

Yumi spoilers:

Spoiler

the black, oozing Shroud on Komashi. The souls of many people were broken down into something else, which I think could reflect Ruin's Intent due to the entropy at play.

 

It's just a theory, but I believe there is solid ground for my reasoning.