Perfect Gemstones, Metals, & Spiritweb Expansion

[Trusk'our he/him]

We know from Shallan's dialog in RoW that if you take a perfect gemstone and leave it out in a Highstorm repeatedly that it will become far more Invested than other gemstones of its size (RoW chapter 87- sorry I can't quote it directly, I don't have the book on me right now).

This is a bit curious to me, seeing as how gemstones seem to follow a rule of pressurization like Radiants, where the more you put inside the harder it is to put in more. Plus, the first time gemstones are Invested they are exposed to a functionally infinite pool of Honor's power- if they had more room for Investiture from the beginning, wouldn't they just reach maximum capacity on the first Storm?

My thinking right now is that an Invested gemstone exposed to the Highstorm may allow in this extra Light by expanding or otherwise changing its spiritual aspect, a bit like how a Sliver has their Spiritweb expanded to hold a Shard or a Savant gets altered by excessive Investiture use. After all, you couldn't force more air into a compressed tank after a while, at least not without expanding the tank first.

 

Going along this thread, I wonder, can other things undergo a similar process? We know that inanimate objects can undergo something akin to Savantism by having Investiture flowing through them for long enough.

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/93-odysseycon-2016/#e2690

Questioner (paraphrased)

In Elantris it talks about how the wood and stone in the city is rotten and crumbling. Why does this happen?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

This is because when objects become Invested for long periods of time their Spiritweb changes to accommodate the Investiture. When the Investiture was pulled up off the stuff in Elantris, its Spiritweb was severely damaged so it showed that in the Physical Realm. This happened with the Lord Ruler when the Bands of Mourning were ripped out of him.

Could a Compounder's Metalminds potentially go through this? Like, if Miles had some gold earrings he was particularly fond of and neglected to burn them, only using them as a medium to hold and tap his health from, would they eventually become warped by the Investiture?

Or, if you tried to Hemalurgically spike a really Invested being, like a Bondsmith Spren or a Prime Aether, would this influx of Investiture permanently alter the spike itself (yes, I know you probably wouldn't be able to hold all of the stolen Investiture in the spike unless it was insanely massive and cumbersome, but any other changes might be interesting to think about)?

[Nitpicking]

20 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

We know from Shallan's dialog in RoW that if you take a perfect gemstone and leave it out in a Highstorm repeatedly that it will become far more Invested than other gemstones of its size (RoW chapter 87- sorry I can't quote it directly, I don't have the book on me right now).

This is a bit curious to me, seeing as how gemstones seem to follow a rule of pressurization like Radiants, where the more you put inside the harder it is to put in more. Plus, the first time gemstones are Invested they are exposed to a functionally infinite pool of Honor's power- if they had more room for Investiture from the beginning, wouldn't they just reach maximum capacity on the first Storm?

A perfect gem has a huge capacity, enough to hold Ba-Ado-Mishram. 

There's a WoB that "infinite" power doesn't mean infinite amounts available in infinitesimal time (to use calculus terminology), just available without limit but at a finite rate. Overnight in a highstorm wouldn't supply Investiture equal to that of The Thrill, it would take many highstorms to fully charge the King's Drop.

[Trusk'our he/him]

7 hours ago, Nitpicking said:

A perfect gem has a huge capacity, enough to hold Ba-Ado-Mishram. 

There's a WoB that "infinite" power doesn't mean infinite amounts available in infinitesimal time (to use calculus terminology), just available without limit but at a finite rate. Overnight in a highstorm wouldn't supply Investiture equal to that of The Thrill, it would take many highstorms to fully charge the King's Drop.

True, "infinite" in the case of the Shards and their systems isn't 100% accurate in the way that we think of it.

However, I don't see enough evidence for your counter proposal to agree with it yet. A hundred-billion BEUs (for example, since I don't know how much is actually available there) shining in the Spiritual Realm trying to push into any available outlet in the Physical during a Highstorm would seem infinite for most purposes, and would probably far exceed the mass of an Unmade, I'm guessing.

Do you have any WoBs or quotes from the book to back up your take on the King's Drop and other gemstones rate of filling? (I don't have the books with me right now- they're at home and I'm at college- so anything would actually be really appreciated, as I'd love to explore and refine this topic a bit more)

[Nitpicking]

9 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

Do you have any WoBs or quotes from the book to back up your take on the King's Drop and other gemstones rate of filling? (I don't have the books with me right now- they're at home and I'm at college- so anything would actually be really appreciated, as I'd love to explore and refine this topic a bit more)

Just logic. Just my intuitive sense for how this universe works. Just the fact that the Highstorm can't supply the full power of a Shard every microsecond, or it's absurdly unbalancing. Do you think that the Tower (the Sibling is the Stormfather's ... sibling, after all) can supply infinite investiture to those inside it? Hell, even being in the Well of Ascension doesn't supply Investiture as fast as you're positing. It took Kelsier months (years? can't remember the timeline) of marinating in the Well to become a stable Cognitive Shadow.

[Trusk'our he/him]

2 minutes ago, Nitpicking said:

Just logic. Just my intuitive sense for how this universe works. Just the fact that the Highstorm can't supply the full power of a Shard every microsecond, or it's absurdly unbalancing. Do you think that the Tower (the Sibling is the Stormfather's ... sibling, after all) can supply infinite investiture to those inside it? 

Eh, probably not infinite Investiture, I suppose. The Tower, like Dalinar's Perpendicularity, does seem to Invest a Radiant to their maximum in the blink of an eye though, which suggests that it's at least a pretty massive amount (also going off of feels since we don't have any solid measurements given to us yet).

So, at the very least a limiting factor would be the full capacity of a gemstone or being, which I think could fit into my original hypothesis of perfect gemstones needing to have their Spiritweb expanded to fit more power over time.

11 minutes ago, Nitpicking said:

Hell, even being in the Well of Ascension doesn't supply Investiture as fast as you're positing. It took Kelsier months (years? can't remember the timeline) of marinating in the Well to become a stable Cognitive Shadow.

Did it?

From what I remember (it's been a while, admittedly), Kel came to rather quickly after dipping in the Well, his essence no longer unravelling. He just couldn't leave until the Well was destroyed, since he was then bound to it.

[DracoAdamantus he/him]

On 10/12/2025 at 10:54 PM, Trusk'our said:

However, I don't see enough evidence for your counter proposal to agree with it yet. A hundred-billion BEUs (for example, since I don't know how much is actually available there) shining in the Spiritual Realm trying to push into any available outlet in the Physical during a Highstorm would seem infinite for most purposes, and would probably far exceed the mass of an Unmade, I'm guessing.

One point about the highstorms is that they aren't a constant storm of pure investiture, it's a highly invested storm with wind and rain and such. According to Coppermind, "The Investiture comes at a certain moment, normally a few minutes after the storm wall, but it changes, this is how surge binders with gravitation can ride storm wall. The strength of the storm is not tied directly to the amount of Stormlight Invested into gemstones."

So not only is there a finite portion of the storm that contains investiture, but gems absorb investiture at the same rate regardless of storm strength. This WoB also infers that the investiture within that section is finite, as the storms strength decreases in part due to the investiture infusing into spheres and other gems.

Spoiler

gpmushu (paraphrased)

Do highstorms get weaker as they move west because of normal meteorological reasons the same way a hurricane gets weaker over land or is it because they slowly drain investiture as they infuse spheres over the whole continent?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Both. He said that anything like that will be affected by both normal science as well as the magic, but then he added that the highstorms are a natural occurring phenomenon that were on the planet before stuff started going down.

Words of Radiance Lexington signing (March 18, 2014)

So, while a highstorm as a whole would contain more investiture than an unmade, there is only a limited amount of time during a storm that investiture is around to infuse, and a limited rate at which gems will absorb that investiture.

[Duxredux he/him]

Like other have said, rate matters a lot. Infinite is a perhaps less useful term than it sounds. From a certain standpoint you could argue that a leaky faucet has infinite water for the intent of never running out, but that's a far cry from a fire hose. There's been several WoBs that talk about what Dalinar's Perpendicularity can't power because it doesn't have enough juice. Throughput, pressure, and rate are related but distinct terms for the concepts you're looking at. 

It also seems safe to assume that different materials may take different rates to infuse, or at least it seems like a poor call to assume it is all instantaneous. Like how different types of ground can soak in only so much rain so fast before it runs off, there may be varying rates at which gemstones and other materials absorb Investiture. There must be some measurable time as Stormlight itself has a travel time when flowing through the medium of air. This in conjunction with the small blip of time that gets stretched elastically when Kaladin sees spheres get infused when left out in the Highstorm. 

 

As for Kel in the Well, he was unraveling and would have faded had Fuzz not shoved him in and said "Be Preserved. Kelsier. Survivor." His "body" reformed immediately, becoming part of the power. It's making assumptions that he needed the whole year marinating to become a Cognitive Shadow. Now which of all of those parts were absolutely required and what wasn't, that's a different question, if a Command was necessary or Intent. Simply using the power elevated Rashek a Splinter that could have resisted The Beyond indefinitely. Unless I'm missing something, the Highstorm never seems like sufficient juice to move the planet, alter genetics globally, or shift geography on a tectonic scale. The Well of Ascension was something more. Possibly that it was a mass of power already accumulated and accessible in the Physical Realm and designated for use - and could be consumed. It was used up. Spent. Would take another thousand years for that much power to accumulate. Compare that to something that blows through every few weeks or months. Kelsier didn't use the Well. In his case it was more like keeping his hands warm on the shielding of a nuclear reactor, no where close to utilizing it to the full extent possible. 

Edited October 16, 2025 by Duxredux

[Trusk'our he/him]

On 10/15/2025 at 1:05 PM, DracoAdamantus said:

One point about the highstorms is that they aren't a constant storm of pure investiture, it's a highly invested storm with wind and rain and such. According to Coppermind, "The Investiture comes at a certain moment, normally a few minutes after the storm wall, but it changes, this is how surge binders with gravitation can ride storm wall. The strength of the storm is not tied directly to the amount of Stormlight Invested into gemstones."

So not only is there a finite portion of the storm that contains investiture, but gems absorb investiture at the same rate regardless of storm strength. This WoB also infers that the investiture within that section is finite, as the storms strength decreases in part due to the investiture infusing into spheres and other gems.

  Reveal hidden contents

gpmushu (paraphrased)

Do highstorms get weaker as they move west because of normal meteorological reasons the same way a hurricane gets weaker over land or is it because they slowly drain investiture as they infuse spheres over the whole continent?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Both. He said that anything like that will be affected by both normal science as well as the magic, but then he added that the highstorms are a natural occurring phenomenon that were on the planet before stuff started going down.

Words of Radiance Lexington signing (March 18, 2014)

So, while a highstorm as a whole would contain more investiture than an unmade, there is only a limited amount of time during a storm that investiture is around to infuse, and a limited rate at which gems will absorb that investiture.

I didn't know that, actually. That's pretty neat!

4 hours ago, Duxredux said:

Like other have said, rate matters a lot. Infinite is a perhaps less useful term than it sounds. From a certain standpoint you could argue that a leaky faucet has infinite water for the intent of never running out, but that's a far cry from a fire hose. There's been several WoBs that talk about what Dalinar's Perpendicularity can't power because it doesn't have enough juice. Throughput, pressure, and rate are related but distinct terms for the concepts you're looking at. 

It also seems safe to assume that different materials may take different rates to infuse, or at least it seems like a poor call to assume it is all instantaneous. Like how different types of ground can soak in only so much rain so fast before it runs off, there may be varying rates at which gemstones and other materials absorb Investiture. There must be some measurable time as Stormlight itself has a travel time when flowing through the medium of air. This in conjunction with the small blip of time that gets stretched elastically when Kaladin sees spheres get infused when left out in the Highstorm. 

 

As for Kel in the Well, he was unraveling and would have faded had Fuzz not shoved him in and said "Be Preserved. Kelsier. Survivor." His "body" reformed immediately, becoming part of the power. It's making assumptions that he needed the whole year marinating to become a Cognitive Shadow. Now which of all of those parts were absolutely required and what wasn't, that's a different question, if a Command was necessary or Intent. Simply using the power elevated Rashek a Splinter that could have resisted The Beyond indefinitely. Unless I'm missing something, the Highstorm never seems like sufficient juice to move the planet, alter genetics globally, or shift geography on a tectonic scale. The Well of Ascension was something more. Possibly that it was a mass of power already accumulated and accessible in the Physical Realm and designated for use - and could be consumed. It was used up. Spent. Would take another thousand years for that much power to accumulate. Compare that to something that blows through every few weeks or months. Kelsier didn't use the Well. In his case it was more like keeping his hands warm on the shielding of a nuclear reactor, no where close to utilizing it to the full extent possible. 

You know, I think that analogy makes sense. I suppose there's also that WoB on Dalinar's Perpendicularity not being enough to fuel Soulcasing of Tanavastium (which I think you're referencing if I'm correct), so maybe Highstorms Infusing gemstones is a bit like how Aons can't give all of the Dor's power to Nightblood despite being a passageway to it?

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/406-general-reddit-2020/#e14137

Haylo_Alex

You've said before that Soulcasting can't create atium or lerasium which makes sense since they're made of Investiture from other Shards. But could a Soulcaster, perhaps in the proximity of Dalinar's perpendicularity, provide enough Stormlight to Soulcast something into Honor's Godmetal (tanavastium)? What about Cultivation's metal, or an alloy of both, like Shardblade metal?

Brandon Sanderson

So, creating a God Metal is not something that's done easily in the Cosmere. HOWEVER, it is possible. You'd need a ton of Investiture, and being near Dalinar's perpendicularity is unlikely to be enough. I'd say Soulcasting, or something akin to it, has the means to do this if it could obtain the proper power charge.

 

Footnote: The questioner is mentioning this WoB.

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/259-oathbringer-leeds-signing/#e8746

Questioner

Could an Elantrian just write an Aon above Nightblood and then use it forever?

Brandon Sanderson

Use it forever? No. 

Questioner

Forever is pushing it.

Brandon Sanderson

No, no, I mean, Nightblood would destroy an Aon pretty quickly. It would pull power through it--

Questioner

It would be like trying to put too much power through a small--

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, it would just rip it up to shreds. You'd get a little use out of it. He would eat the very structure of it, if that makes any sense.

Anyway, combining all that with what @DracoAdamantus has said, I'd say this pretty solidly backs up @Nitpicking's thoughts on the more limited Investiture that can make it into a gemstone normally. Thank you for the feedback friends, I appreciate it.

So, perhaps the reason normal gemstones hold less than perfect gemstones is because they lose most if not all their stored Investiture before the next Highstorm comes, so they just never reach their upper ceiling. . . though, what about Dalinar's Perpendicularity? If gemstones nearby are constantly exposed to the stream instead of it being just an instant, wouldn't they reach that ceiling?

Is it just a purely physical thing, where flawed gems not only leak faster but also just have a smaller overall storage capacity?

 

I'm still thinking that Metalminds could undergo a form of Savantism if overused though, what with Elantris's stone essentially doing that. I don't know that it would act like a perfect gemstone afterwards, but I'm sure it would be different in some way.

[DracoAdamantus he/him]

On 10/16/2025 at 4:31 PM, Trusk'our said:

So, perhaps the reason normal gemstones hold less than perfect gemstones is because they lose most if not all their stored Investiture before the next Highstorm comes, so they just never reach their upper ceiling. . . though, what about Dalinar's Perpendicularity? If gemstones nearby are constantly exposed to the stream instead of it being just an instant, wouldn't they reach that ceiling?

Is it just a purely physical thing, where flawed gems not only leak faster but also just have a smaller overall storage capacity?

 

I'm still thinking that Metalminds could undergo a form of Savantism if overused though, what with Elantris's stone essentially doing that. I don't know that it would act like a perfect gemstone afterwards, but I'm sure it would be different in some way.

I think it's mostly a physical thing. I believe that stormlight is stored in the physical crystal structure of gemstones. The closer the internal structure is to perfect, the more viable space there is in the gem for the stormlight to collect.

This would also help explain the stormlight leakage. The Third law of Investiture states that investiture flows from an area of higher concentration to one of lower concentration. Here's how I think it works: 

*Note: For this explanation, the word "crystal" is in a chemical sense, referring to the arrangement of atoms to form one crystal, which are bonded together to create a crystalline substance. "Gem" (or gemstone) refers to the whole object made of crystal.

When you fill a gem with stormlight, it fills the entire gem evenly, so the concentration is constant throughout. A perfect crystal will hold an amount of stormlight indefinitely (that amount based on atomic makeup of the crystal, which will give it a defined size and shape), until drawn out by another source of investiture. A flawed crystal, caused by inclusions or cracks in the gemstone, will not hold any stormlight, and will immediately leak out once removed from the source of light. Now the gemstone 's stormlight concentration is uneven, because the flawed sections have no light, so it redisperses to be even, leaks from the flawed areas, and so on until there is no light left. It's a miniscule amount of light lost, but over a prolonged period of time