Blackthorn Deeper Meaning

[Knick Knack]

I have recently been conducting a lot of research into what our own world has historically used as a Dueling Cane, such as is found in the Mistborn Saga. One that frequently comes up is the Shillelagh, which is most commonly made with blackthorn branches, which is thick with symbolism amongst the ancient Celtic people.

 

Knowing that Dalinar is nicknamed Blackthorn, it led me down an interesting path comparing symbology of the tree from ancient cultures and his Dalinar's own conquests and personality. In Celtic mythology, the blackthorn tree was seen as one of protection and transformation. It was often used as a natural barrier for livestock, both to keep them in and keep predators out because of the enormous thorns along the branches. It was typically seen as the darker side of the natural world. Blackthorn wood was also considered to have a deep connection with witchcraft and other-worldly beings that would both protect and curse others. Some folklore even goes so far as to say that it was bad luck to hurt the blackthorn tree and it would bring about illness or death.

 

In the case of Dalinar, we see a lot of these attributes imbued into his personality and actions. We see that when he is hurt or if he is slighted, it would bring about bad luck and often death to those who opposed him. Then there is his connection to the Stormfather who is a force of both protection as well as strife to the people of Roshar. Many of Dalinar's conquests during the founding of Roshar were also seen as the dark side of the uniting of all the houses under one king.

 

I don't know if these connections were intentional when Brandon Sanderson was writing these books, but it has been fun to notice connections between mythology of cultures in our own world and those of the fantasy world that is so fun to read.

[Treamayne]

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3 hours ago, Knick Knack said:

I have recently been conducting a lot of research into what our own world has historically used as a Dueling Cane, such as is found in the Mistborn Saga. One that frequently comes up is the Shillelagh, which is most commonly made with blackthorn branches, which is thick with symbolism amongst the ancient Celtic people.

It's possible that was part of his inspiration - as we know there are no Blackthorn Trees east of the Shinovar Mountains on Roshar (maybe none on Roshar at all); like a lot of Alethi terms and such, they are inspired by the cultural Memory of Ashyn and humanity's early days on Roshar (e. g. axehounds using the term "hound" when modern alethi do not know what a dog is). So, how he came by that Nickname is further complicated by how and why the Alethi even remember that name and what historical/mythological/cultural baggage is attached to the term for it to have endured for so long. We do not have a WoB on the direct inspiration for why Sanderson chose that name (only one possible subconcious inspiration), so it is possible that was part of the symbolism. WoBs:

Spoiler

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Questioner

Was the Blackthorn... Is that a reference to Tad Williams' character Camaris and the sword Thorn that's black?

Brandon Sanderson

Not intentionally but I've read those books.

Questioner

Do you see the connection?

Brandon Sanderson

I totally see the connection. I mean I've read Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn, so totally could be there in the back of my head.

Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019)

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[joke about Birds=Chickens on Roshar]

Brandon Sanderson

See also: Eastern Rosharans using the word "Wine" for a variety of types of alcohol, when only rare imports from Shinovar actually come from a grape, and naming animals things like "hound" when they only vaguely resemble a creature from Shinovar. (Or the term silk, which is harvested from plants that float in the ocean. Or using the word 'cremling' for any kind of small crustacean or insect, which is a linguistic expansion of the word over the centuries, when there used to be two distinct terms for them.)

Vorin languages, in particular, lend themselves to this kind of simplification of terms.

General Reddit 2016 (Nov. 29, 2016)

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Billy Todd

Is that similar to the way that a Rosharan calls all birds "Chickens"?

Brandon Sanderson

No, the way that Rosharans call all birds "chickens" or all alcohols "wines" is actually me maybe feeling more clever than I am, putting in seeds from book one that-- This just happens in linguistics, where certain words sometimes narrow in definitions, other times they broaden in definition. Just how we call Googling something, searching for it. There are people who are joking that movies are just going to be called Disneys in the future. I love the linguistics of this, and I wanted to indicate that the word for "bird" just spread through Roshar as "chicken" because those were the birds that they knew about. And wine was a pretty good one. There aren't grapes on Roshar, right. They call them "wine"; none of it's wine. You wouldn't call any of it wine. Because they don't have grapes. But this is a word from a planet from when they used to have grapes, that they used for this thing, that eventually replaced the word and became the generic. You see it more often in our languages the other way, Peter can talk more about this. Words will become more and more narrow over time.

JordanCon 2018 (April 21, 2018)

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Questioner

Are birds native to Roshar?

Brandon Sanderson

Birds are not native to Roshar.

Questioner

...Did they come over with the initial humans?

Brandon Sanderson

They did. The humans brought them over, along with a lot of other beasts. Like, horses aren't native to Roshar either. You can tell pretty easily the non-native things. Like, Roshar doesn't have any grapes. So the word wine got genericized in the same the way that the word chicken did. You'll see bunches of that. Like the way the weather works. Roshar does not have weather patterns like Ashyn did. They're used to seasons. Suddenly, the words for the seasons, all these weird things that you may have been wondering through the first couple of books, you're like, "Oh I see why they just call hard alcohol a wine," or, "I see why they call everything a chicken." It's kind of related to this.

Idaho Falls signing (Dec. 29, 2018)

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RobotAztec

Is all the chickens who are not chickens in Stormlight a big fat joke about [Terry Goodkind]?

Brandon Sanderson

No. Loan words into Alethi (chicken, wine, hound, etc) are a little bit of linguistic worldbuilding I am using for quite a different reason...

muther22

I'm guessing you aren't willing to elaborate on that point?

Brandon Sanderson

Book three will make it clear, but it is not so hard to guess right now. I will avoid saying more until November.

General Reddit 2017 (Aug. 3, 2017)

 

Hope that helps