REBIRTHS/RESSURECTION/REVIVALS (OB)

[TheUnInvestedCremling he/him....]

OK!

Give me a goddamn break

These ressurections are getting out of hand...

Im upto OB and already OMHD!!!! Stormlight is frustrating!!!

Spoiler

I thought jasnah was done for... and guess what? She is back!

Spoiler

I thought Szeth was done for.... and guess what? He is back!

Spoiler

I thought Gawx was done for... and guess what? He became emporer!!!!

plzzzz, why do i feel like its going to get worse?

Call to arms for any brothers, sisters, sprens, gods, heralds ANYONE!!!! DOES ANYONE FEEL ME!?!?!

im crashing out

[KaladinsSenseOfHumourSpren He/Him]

2 minutes ago, LordHathsin_Surviv0r said:

OK!

Give me a goddamn break

These ressurections are getting out of hand...

Im upto OB and already OMHD!!!! Stormlight is frustrating!!!

I thought jasnah was done for... and guess what? She is back!

I thought Szeth was done for.... and guess what? He is back!

I thought Gawx was done for... and guess what? He became emporer!!!!

plzzzz, why do i feel like its going to get worse?

Call to arms for any brothers, sisters, sprens, gods, heralds ANYONE!!!! DOES ANYONE FEEL ME!?!?!

im crashing out

This is general discussion! No spoilers allowed!

[TheUnInvestedCremling he/him....]

oh how do i change it.. LOL

[KaladinsSenseOfHumourSpren He/Him]

Just now, L0rD_Witt3X said:

oh how do i change it.. LOL

Top right corner of your post, three dots. Click on it, then click edit.

Spoiler tag and mention what they're spoilers for

Also this must go in General Brandon Discussion

I'm reporting

[Chaos he/him]

No, it should not be in General Brandon, but Stormlight. I've put OB in the title there to indicate where you're at.

[TheUnInvestedCremling he/him....]

8 hours ago, Chaos said:

No, it should not be in General Brandon, but Stormlight. I've put OB in the title there to indicate where you're at.

thanks

[Ookla the Newt she/her]

Words of Radiance has a lottt of fakeout deaths, but I think they trickle off after that (there are some more resurrections, but no more fakeouts I can think of)

[Treamayne]

17 hours ago, L0rD_Witt3X said:

plzzzz, why do i feel like its going to get worse?

Call to arms for any brothers, sisters, sprens, gods, heralds ANYONE!!!! DOES ANYONE FEEL ME!?!?!

im crashing out

It is a theme, and done purposefully. WoB (has spoilers for Mistborn and Warbreaker):

Spoiler

B-more_freshout

I think [Brandon] would benefit a lot from finding some kind of way in-universe to convey when we can be certain that the character is dead. Something like what we see of Vin and Elend in Secret History after they die. I think that he was trying to prove how definite their death was.. I don't know how he could realistically or smoothly accomplish this, but I think that until we see some proof beyond what is normally expected to see for a death, we can't be 100% sure that anyone is dead.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, I've been thinking about this. Spoilers below.

The issue is, resurrection is a major theme of the cosmere. The very first line of the first chapter of the first cosmere book starts with someone dying. The story is about his return to life.

The death of Adonalsium, and the questions surrounding the persistence of his power, is THE single pervasive theme of the works. And so, I've returned to this theme multiple times--from Sazed's more metaphorical rebirth in Mistborn Three to Syl's more literal one in Words of Radiance.

At the same time, the more this theme continues, the more it undermines the reader's ability to believe someone is really dead--and therefore their tension at worrying over the safety of characters. So we need a better "Dead is dead" indication, otherwise every death will turn into Sirius Black, with readers being skeptical for years to come.

So, let's just say it's something I'm aware of. Josh, of the 17th Shard, was the first one to raise the issue with me years ago. We need a balance between narrative drama and cosmere themes of rebirth.

dce42

I figured Nightblood was your answer to dead is dead.

Brandon Sanderson

He's certainly AN answer. But there are way more ways to kill someone in the cosmere--I just need to be more clear on how that works, giving the right indications to readers.

General Reddit 2017 (March 10, 2017)

Spoiler-free WoB Extract:

Spoiler

B-more_freshout

I think [Brandon] would benefit a lot from finding some kind of way in-universe to convey when we can be certain that the character is dead. <Redacted>

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, I've been thinking about this. Spoilers below.

The issue is, resurrection is a major theme of the cosmere. The very first line of the first chapter of the first cosmere book starts with someone dying. The story is about his return to life.

The death of Adonalsium, and the questions surrounding the persistence of his power, is THE single pervasive theme of the works. And so, I've returned to this theme multiple times--from Sazed's <Redacted> to Syl's more literal one <Redacted>

At the same time, the more this theme continues, the more it undermines the reader's ability to believe someone is really dead--and therefore their tension at worrying over the safety of characters. So we need a better "Dead is dead" indication, otherwise every death will turn into Sirius Black, with readers being skeptical for years to come.

So, let's just say it's something I'm aware of. Josh, of the 17th Shard, was the first one to raise the issue with me years ago. We need a balance between narrative drama and cosmere themes of rebirth.

<Redacted>

General Reddit 2017 (March 10, 2017)

Also, please know that (Minor Anticipatory Spoilers for RoW):

Spoiler

A "dead is dead" mechanic is a major theme of Rhythm of War and was meant to address exactly what you mention. 

Regarding Jasnah specifically:
  The original version of that seen made it more clear that she was not dead - he edited it after beta reads to make it more abiguous and does regret that decision. WoB:

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

I've watched this conversation with interest, and wasn't planning to step in, as it's exactly the sort of thread that's generally better without me. Author intervention can derail a good discussion.

But after considering, I decided I did want to talk about this topic a little. There are two things going on here. One is the mistake I made with Jasnah in Words, which I've mentioned before. One is a larger discussion, relevant to the cosmere.

Warning, WALL OF TEXT. This is me we're talking about.

You see, Jasnah wasn't originally meant to be a fake-out. Jasnah originally was going to go with Shallan to the Shattered Plains--but she was really messing up the outline, diverting attention from Shallan's character arc and pointing it toward Shallan/Jasnah conflicts instead.

My biggest breakthrough when outlining the book in detail was the realization that the book would work so much better if things I'd planned to do with Jasnah in it were diverted to later books. When that came together, WORDS really started working. Hence her jaunt into Shadesmar. I initially wrote the scenes with it being pretty clear to the reader that she was forced to escape--and it was super suspicious that there was no body.

In drafting, however, early readers didn't like how obvious it was that Jasnah would be coming back. I made a crucial mistake by over-reacting to early feedback. I thought, "Well, I can make that more dramatic!" I employed some tools I've learned quite well, and turned that into a scene where the emotion is higher and the death is more powerful.

HOWEVER, I did this without realizing how it mixed with other plotlines--specifically Szeth's resurrection.

<Redacted Wall of Text>

General Reddit 2017 (Aug. 30, 2017)

Also, if interested, the link the the deleted Jasnah scene showing she was alive can be found here (hosted on reactormag.com).

Hope that helps