Kelsier vs Hoid Who Would Win

[The WorldHopper Taynix He/Him]

This post is about where Kelsier and Hoid this a hypothetical battle who would win in this fight my guess is Hoid your opinion could differ but that’s your choice please type what you think.

[KaladinsSenseOfHumourSpren He/Him]

Did I tell you about the Dawnshard's effects on Hoid? He is incapable of harming people. So it is not him. It is not Kelsier either because every time he hits Hoid, the Dawnshard just regenerates him. It would be an endless battle until one of them gives up.

I suggest that you don't post anything in Cosmere or anything Discussion until you actually read the stuff.

[DoctaDajman]

57 minutes ago, KaladinsSenseOfHumorSpren said:

Did I tell you about the Dawnshard's effects on Hoid? He is incapable of harming people. So it is not him. It is not Kelsier either because every time he hits Hoid, the Dawnshard just regenerates him. It would be an endless battle until one of them gives up.

I suggest that you don't post anything in Cosmere or anything Discussion until you actually read the stuff.

Perhaps this is just my first thing in the morning eyes but that last paragraph comes off quite unkind and not really how I like to see the community act towards one another.  

Having read or listened to all of Brandon's works is not a prerequisite for participating in this forum. 

The OP isn't the first one to ask this question and wont be the last. 

1 hour ago, ShardOfTaynix said:

This post is about where Kelsier and Hoid this a hypothetical battle who would win in this fight my guess is Hoid your opinion could differ but that’s your choice please type what you think.

If the dawnshard didn't limit Hoids actions the man would absolutely body anyone else in the cosmere short of a shard. 

I think vs battles are what first made me participate in these forums. Nice thought exercises that stretch the systems. But fair warning... Brandon did not make the magics balanced towards one another. 

Hoid has collected enough of the systems of magic that he would be a complete menace if he was allowed to hurt anything. 

Kelsier at the moment is not a shard and is, if you take his word for it, powerless aside from the spike stapling his soul to his body. If he had full bands of mourning he would be a menace as well but even gold compounding is not as effective as dawnshard healing. 

Give anyone Nightblood and I think Hoid would start sweating. Nightblood vs anyone makes for a one-sided match-up. 

 

[Treamayne]

2 hours ago, ShardOfTaynix said:

This post is about where Kelsier and Hoid this a hypothetical battle who would win in this fight my guess is Hoid your opinion could differ but that’s your choice please type what you think.

Please see Vin Vs Hoid - same applies. It's a draw because neither can hurt the other. 

Consider checking out the Sharder FAQ, which includes a section on the great search feature the forum has - you can easily find all of the very very many Vs threads.

Hope that helps.

[Born of Mist He/Him]

11 hours ago, ShardOfTaynix said:

This post is about where Kelsier and Hoid this a hypothetical battle who would win in this fight my guess is Hoid your opinion could differ but that’s your choice please type what you think.

Spoiler

Hoid already beat up Kelsier

 

[KaladinsSenseOfHumourSpren He/Him]

1 hour ago, Born of Mist said:

  Hide contents

Hoid already beat up Kelsier

 

But he didn't actuallly beat up Kelsier.

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

1 hour ago, Born of Mist said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Hoid already beat up Kelsier

 

yeah kelsier wasnt at full power

[DoctaDajman]

1 hour ago, CoderDrag0n8 said:

yeah kelsier wasnt at full power

What is full power for Kelsier?  

If you hold a shard for a moment but cant hold it again is the vs battle taking place in that moment or in the here and now. 

Kelsier here and now is staying hidden for good reasons. He is lying about his powers for good reasons. 

I dont know that Kelsier has much to work with other than a boat load of experience with powers he doesn't have anymore. 

That isn't to say that a cognitive shadow stapled to a body isn't still dangerous. (Even more so if he happens to be stapled to a kandra body but this is wild speculation and probably not true... I will @Treamayne and maybe they know?) 

Even with the bands, if Kelsier doesn't have a weapon like nightblood Hoid will simply regen anything back... 

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

34 minutes ago, DoctaDajman said:

What is full power for Kelsier?  

If you hold a shard for a moment but cant hold it again is the vs battle taking place in that moment or in the here and now. 

Kelsier here and now is staying hidden for good reasons. He is lying about his powers for good reasons. 

I dont know that Kelsier has much to work with other than a boat load of experience with powers he doesn't have anymore. 

That isn't to say that a cognitive shadow stapled to a body isn't still dangerous. (Even more so if he happens to be stapled to a kandra body but this is wild speculation and probably not true... I will @Treamayne and maybe they know?) 

Even with the bands, if Kelsier doesn't have a weapon like nightblood Hoid will simply regen anything back... 

full power for Kelsier is however he managed to make the Bands of Mourning and Medallions.

I'm just saying, he has a bunch of power that he used to do a bunch of funky stuff (along with being the leader of one of the biggest multi-system orginization in the cosmere).

And Hoid is incapable of attacking people.

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, DoctaDajman said:

(Even more so if he happens to be stapled to a kandra body but this is wild speculation and probably not true... I will @Treamayne and maybe they know?)

It is very unlikely that Kelsier could be in a Kandra body - Identity conflict plus conflict between his Eye Spike and whatever Blessing the Kandra had would be a challenge to resolve (if that were even possible). However, It has been theorized that Kelsier's body is a Mistwraith wearing his own bones that TenSoon secured and saved from the Catacendre. WoBs:

Spoiler

Quote

Annotations to HoA Ch 59:

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

Kelsier's Bones

I don't know if I mentioned it previously in the annotations, but I originally had TenSoon leave Kelsier's bones in Luthadel, burying them again following his appearance to Wellen and the other guard. My alpha readers, however, were very disappointed in this. They saw Kelsier's bones as a very important artifact, and they wanted to see more from them. So, I added the scene where the people in the warehouse saw TenSoon and he gave them advice, then I had him bring the bones with him.

However, I wasn't sure what to do with them. I'd already written the book at this point, and was just revising. I realized there wouldn't be another chance to make use of the bones. But I figured the readers were right, and TenSoon should bring them just in case.

Where the bones are at the end of the book is something of a mystery. They made it back to the kandra Homeland, I'll say that. However, what happened to them then . . . well, you will have to see.

The Hero of Ages Annotations (Feb. 9, 2010)

iwinUlose2

In Mistborn 3, What happened to Kelsier's bones, and will they play any significance in any of the sequels?

Brandon Sanderson

The bones survived the events of the last book. We might see them again. Speaking of relic-like items, Sazed's rings survived as well. We might see those again.

Barnes and Noble Book Club Q&A (July 8, 2009)

Quote

rxience (paraphrased)

Would a single spike be sufficient to staple a Cognitive Shadow to a mistwraith?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, that could happen.

rxience (paraphrased)

Did that happen in the past?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

That's a RAFO, I'm afraid. Who are you thinking about?

rxience (paraphrased)

Kelsier of course!

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Well, he is somehow in the Physical Realm. And he does look like himself, doesn't he?

Berlin signing (May 14, 2019)

 

Hope that helps

[coolsnow7]

15 hours ago, KaladinsSenseOfHumorSpren said:

Did I tell you about the Dawnshard's effects on Hoid? He is incapable of harming people. So it is not him. It is not Kelsier either because every time he hits Hoid, the Dawnshard just regenerates him. It would be an endless battle until one of them gives up.

I suggest that you don't post anything in Cosmere or anything Discussion until you actually read the stuff.

Jeez this guy has no chill

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

11 minutes ago, coolsnow7 said:

Jeez this guy has no chill

Well, his IRL friend who hasn't read any of the books is constantly trying to get a bunch of spoilers from multiple sources without ever actually reading the books, so

he's a bit frustrated.

[SpartanBrigade He/Him]

Yeah it’s alright they’re irl friends lol

[DoctaDajman]

2 hours ago, Treamayne said:

It is very unlikely that Kelsier could be in a Kandra body - Identity conflict plus conflict between his Eye Spike and whatever Blessing the Kandra had would be a challenge to resolve (if that were even possible). However, It has been theorized that Kelsier's body is a Mistwraith wearing his own bones that TenSoon secured and saved from the Catacendre. WoBs:

  Hide contents

 

Hope that helps

Okay. I see my technical error. I had theorized he was eaten and reshaped years ago.  I guess in my mind is didnt categorize kandra and mistwraith separately enough. Yes kandra specific blessings vs a single eye spike and what not.  I love the theory.

The advantages of a kandra body Im interested in are still available to a mistwraith. Functional immortality save very specific death scenes... no trap doors into acid! 

1 hour ago, CoderDrag0n8 said:

Well, his IRL friend who hasn't read any of the books is constantly trying to get a bunch of spoilers from multiple sources without ever actually reading the books, so

he's a bit frustrated.

I am a spoiler addict too.  To be honest... I sort of hate the story behind the stormlight archives. I dont find the internal everyone battling depression to be enjoyable to read in the slightest. The world has too many emo mysterious guys in the corner of the tavern already.  I haven't read RoW or dawnshard or edgedance... but I love the magics so I will grab spoilers as necessary to see the magic play out. 

Keep on spoiling peeps!

[Endnighthazer]

I do think its worth considering ways the two could fight without involving the Torment/regeneration. Hoid has a lot of magic systems to pull from to effect/limit Kel in some way without actually harming him, and Kel (if we assume he has mistborn powers) could probably mess with Hoid through leeching, soothing, rioting, etc. without actually needing to basically punch through his healing 

[Duxredux he/him]

Define "win." Incapacitate or trap probably should count for immortals. Trigger coathanger mode for Hoid? Counts as a win. Trap Kel in the Well of Ascension or similar prison? Win. Convince someone like Szeth equipped with Nightblood during SA 3 and 4 that the other needed to go down? Win.

Between the two, Hoid knows more but Kel is willing to commit to gambits that would get him killed in the process to further his goals. Hard to say which is more dangerous in conflicts spanning hundreds if not thousands of years.

As we last saw them, drop the two in an empty field? Hoid would win but that's because he has access to more raw power to trap Kel. Design would let him Soulcast aluminum or whatever he wanted. Let Kel do what he does best - crew leader, thief, and conman? Kel is a better administrator and networker considering the kind of help that comes when Hoid needs it. Ulaam spent a year recording Hoid's sillier quotes and Design who ran a ramen shop and made him into a coat rack. Kel inspires genuine loyalty and trust - even from someone like Shai. Give him time and it wouldn't surprise me if Kel could orchestrate Hoid's demise or imprisonment. Hoid would just have to get to TLR, Ruin, or Trell levels of dangerous for him to pull out all the stops. His agenda is safety for Scadrial. Don't know enough about Hoid's end goal to know if he would consider bumping Kelsier and the Ghostbloods off the board to be a worthwhile use of his time.