Parameters of Kandra Death

[Denissimo He/him]

In the Coppermind, it is stated HOW a kandra dies; e.g. "

Kandra do not appear to die of natural causes, but they are not immortal, just incredibly long-lived.^[14] One of the kandra secrets references the unknown acid mixture. Being bathed in acid can effectively kill a kandra, so this is one way how misbehaved kandra were executed in kandra homeland during the Final Empire with the other way being starvation. They can also be killed by fire.^[13]

Because of their ability to change shape, most damage to a kandra is of no consequence; they do feel normal physical pain as a result of trauma, though MeLaan has said that kandra have the ability to turn nerves off and thus experience no pain.^[15] This leads to kandra guards mostly using hammers to break bones, thus hindering movement.

A kandra digesting another kandra can perform the killing, but it is unknown if the two kandra will fight and try to eat each other during the process. After the Catacendre, the kandra develop a way to take their own lives at will. Also developed by the kandra post-Catacendre is a liquid which upon injection will incapacitate kandra and make them transparent, but will not make them unconscious.^[16] Removing or destroying both of their spikes will revert them into a mistwraith.^[17]"

But it does not explain what EXACTLY happens. Let me elaborate.

When a human or another sentient being dies, they briefly turn into a cognitive shadow, before going into the beyond, right?
That is because they have souls. I am aware that non-living beings can also project some sort of cognitive aspect, so says the coppermind.

Except what happens when Kandra die? Their sentience is contained in their blessings, is it not? Or at least, their blessings instill sentience. 
Furthermore, if a Kandra spike is used by a human, what happens?
TenSoon used OreSeus Kandra spike without any adverse effects, as far as I know, so what happened to OreSeur's sentience? Does that mean it is not contained in the hemalurgic spike??

 

[Treamayne]

Welcome to the Shard. Please consider an Intro Post to let us know what you have or have-not read (whichever list is shorter). Also, please consider checking out the Sharder FAQ for some useful forum info and tips. 

1 hour ago, Denisimo said:

In the Coppermind, it is stated HOW a kandra dies; Coppermind:

Spoiler

Kandra do not appear to die of natural causes, but they are not immortal, just incredibly long-lived.^[14] One of the kandra secrets references the unknown acid mixture. Being bathed in acid can effectively kill a kandra, so this is one way how misbehaved kandra were executed in kandra homeland during the Final Empire with the other way being starvation. They can also be killed by fire.^[13]

Because of their ability to change shape, most damage to a kandra is of no consequence; they do feel normal physical pain as a result of trauma, though MeLaan has said that kandra have the ability to turn nerves off and thus experience no pain.^[15] This leads to kandra guards mostly using hammers to break bones, thus hindering movement.

A kandra digesting another kandra can perform the killing, but it is unknown if the two kandra will fight and try to eat each other during the process. After the Catacendre, the kandra develop a way to take their own lives at will. Also developed by the kandra post-Catacendre is a liquid which upon injection will incapacitate kandra and make them transparent, but will not make them unconscious.^[16] Removing or destroying both of their spikes will revert them into a mistwraith.^[17]"

But it does not explain what EXACTLY happens. Let me elaborate.

When a human or another sentient being dies, they briefly turn into a cognitive shadow, before going into the beyond, right?
That is because they have souls. I am aware that non-living beings can also project some sort of cognitive aspect, so says the coppermind.

Except what happens when Kandra die? Their sentience is contained in their blessings, is it not? Or at least, their blessings instill sentience. 
Furthermore, if a Kandra spike is used by a human, what happens?
TenSoon used OreSeus Kandra spike without any adverse effects, as far as I know, so what happened to OreSeur's sentience? Does that mean it is not contained in the hemalurgic spike??

Their Sapience is not contained in their Blessing. Their Blessing contains the ability for which it is named. Mistwraiths were the world's feruchemists at the time that Rashek took the Well. He changed every living Feruchemist into a Mistwraith - then but a Block on their Cognitive Identity. The Blessing's other feature is to bypass that block (it has to do with why Kandra Spikes are different and could not use Inquisitor or Koloss Spikes instead - though we do not yet know what the difference is, precisely).

Mistwraiths and Kandra are naturally Sapient species artificially handicapped until the Blessings allow them to become complete.

WoBs: 

Spoiler

Quote

NinjaMeTimbers

How intelligent is a mistwraith? Could you raise and train mistwraiths like dogs or horses, controlling what forms they take by the bones you give them? Would you be able to train yourself a horsewraith steed by giving it only the bones of a horse?

Brandon Sanderson

This is feasible. One thing to keep in mind is that mistwraiths are people who have a blockage between the Physical and the Cognitive Realm, messing with their ability to think. Think of them as mentally-stunted people. There's enough there to train, but then you have to dig into the ethics of it...

17th Shard Forum Q&A (Sept. 27, 2012)

Quote

Tyran Amiros

What happened to Kwaan? I was half expecting to see him amongst the kandra First Generation.

Brandon Sanderson

Kwaan went into hiding, and he was eventually discovered and executed by Rashek. He wasn't among the First Generation, though he would have been if he hadn't turned against Rashek. Rashek kept the plate, however, just as he kept Alendi's logbook. Partially because even then, Rashek was going a little mad, but partially because of the reminders about his old life they contained.

Vegasdev

I'm assuming you meant Alendi hunted him down because he turned against Alendi. Or did Kwaan also turn against Rashek?

Brandon Sanderson

No, I meant that he turned against Rashek. Remember, the members of the First Generation were offered immortality in exchange for their Hemalurgy Feruchemy. They had to make this choice for all of the world's Feruchemists. Because his uncle had been the one who gave Rashek the chance to become the Lord Ruler in the first place, Rashek blessed him and included him in the decision. (Speaking directly into his mind along with the others during Rashek's moment of ascension.)

Kwaan was the only one who turned down this offer, calling it a betrayal of who they were as a people. Rashek could have just made him one anyway, but in a moment of anger, he tried to destroy Kwaan—which he couldn't do, not with Preservation's power. As the other Feruchemists changed, Kwaan remained the same. Rashek eventually hunted him down and killed him.

Footnote: Brandon likely means Feruchemy, here in place of Hemalurgy.
Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008)

 

They would have a Cognitive Shadow like any other person. 

Hope that helps

Edited June 10, 2025 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Denissimo He/him]

 

17 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Welcome to the Shard. Please consider an Intro Post to let us know what you have or have-not read (whichever list is shorter). Also, please consider checking out the Sharder FAQ for some useful forum info and tips. 

Their Sapience is not contained in their Blessing. Their Blessing contains the ability for which it is named. Mistwraiths were the world's feruchemists at the time that Rashek took the Well. He changed every living Feruchemist into a Mistwraith - then but a Block on their Cognitive Identity. The Blessing's other feature is to bypass that block (it has to do with why Kandra Spikes are different and could not use Inquisitor or Koloss Spikes instead - though we do not yet know what the difference is, precisely).

Mistwraiths and Kandra are naturally Sapient species artificially handicapped until the Blessings allow them to become complete.

WoBs: 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

They would have a Cognitive Shadow like any other person. 

Hope that helps

Thanks that helped!
So what you are saying is that Mistwraiths are sapient, except the block on their Cognitive identity prevents them from really being sentient. And the spikes bring them to full sapiency, correct? 

One more question, this one on Kelsier: in the coppermind, it is stated that "A single Hemalurgic spike is enough to staple a Cognitive Shadow to a mistwraith, though whether this has happened in the past is unknown." Kelsier appeared in the second series of the Mistborn a VERY much alive, with a physical form, and many titles (e.g. the Sovereign, etc.)
He also has a hemalurgic spike in his right eye. IS KELSIER A KANDRA? It is also stated in the coppermind that his bones survives the Catacendre, or Harmony's Acension ("His bones survived the Ascension of Harmony,^[61] and may have helped him regain physical form.")
So, was Kelsier's cognitive shadow attached to a mistwraith body, making it sentient, which then ingested his bones to retake his original form????
If this is the case, what of the Cognitive shadow of the actual Mistwraith? Was it kicked out of the physical form or does it share the body with Kelsier? Would it still have impaired cognitive ability?
Furthermore, it was stated previously that 2 Hemalurgic spikes are enough to give a Mistwraith Sentience. What happens if it is only given one?
 

Edited June 11, 2025 by Denisimo

[Treamayne]

7 hours ago, Denisimo said:

One more question, this one on Kelsier: in the coppermind, it is stated that "A single Hemalurgic spike is enough to staple a Cognitive Shadow to a mistwraith, though whether this has happened in the past is unknown." Kelsier appeared in the second series of the Mistborn a VERY much alive, with a physical form, and many titles (e.g. the Sovereign, etc.)

He also has a hemalurgic spike in his right eye.

1. IS KELSIER A KANDRA?
   • It is also stated in the coppermind that his bones survives the Catacendre, or Harmony's Acension ("His bones survived the Ascension of Harmony, and may have helped him regain physical form.") So, was Kelsier's cognitive shadow attached to a mistwraith body, making it sentient, which then ingested his bones to retake his original form? 
2. If this is the case, what of the Cognitive shadow of the actual Mistwraith? Was it kicked out of the physical form or does it share the body with Kelsier? Would it still have impaired cognitive ability?
3. Furthermore, it was stated previously that 2 Hemalurgic spikes are enough to give a Mistwraith Sentience. What happens if it is only given one?

1. No, Kandra is something very specific and very different - likely closer to (Warbreaker Spoilers) a Returned
   • This is the prominent fan theory - which is expected to be confirmed or denied in Era 3. 
2. Well, if the Mistwraith was dead before Kelsier appropriated the body, that Cognitive Shadow would have gone to the Beyond. If the Mistwraith was not dead, then there is no Shadow at all - but we do not know how that would affect the body's native Cognitive Identity and attached Spiritweb. It is more likely the body was dead for this to take place (the interference would probably prevent Kelsier's Cognitive Shadow from being able to control the body). 
   • Yumi (YatNP) has clues as to how that body could look like Kelsier without Kelsier being able to consciously control the body's Shapeshifting abilities.
3. One Blessing, which happens to be a matched pair of Hemalurgic spikes, will bypass the blockage to return a Mistwraith to Sapience (they are already Sentient). A single spike would not be a blessing and we do not know how Bleeder was able to use only a single spike non-blessing to do the same. For a normal Mistwraith using a single normal Hemalurgic Spike, it is unlikely to do anything because the bind points would be very different and are very malleable; so it would just end up being a piece of metal sitting somewhere in the body.

Spoiler

Implied, but not confirmed:

Quote

rxience (paraphrased)

Would a single spike be sufficient to staple a Cognitive Shadow to a mistwraith?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, that could happen.

rxience (paraphrased)

Did that happen in the past?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

That's a RAFO, I'm afraid. Who are you thinking about?

rxience (paraphrased)

Kelsier of course!

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Well, he is somehow in the Physical Realm. And he does look like himself, doesn't he?

Berlin signing (May 14, 2019)

Kandra (and therefore Mistwraith) Bindpoints:

Quote

focoma

We've seen Kandra True Bodies made of crystal, stone, or wood. Can a kandra use a True Body made of metal? If so, what happens if each metal "bone" had a Hemalurgic charge, and each one is touching an appropriate bind point?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. And that would work, better than you think, because Kandra have fluid bind points. But too many spikes can be dangerous to the psyche, even with Ati not messing things up.

/r/books AMA 2015 (March 12, 2015)

 

Hope that helps

[Denissimo He/him]

Thanks! that helped.