Is Scadrian Aluminum unique?

[Through the Living Wrath he/him]

So.

Aluminum.

The question has come up

Many times

of how the heck aluminum metallic arts exists.

Sososososo

Ruin/Preservation, they kinda messed up the whole planet - jerked it round ‘n’ such, made the Ashmounts, and all that good stuff.

And Ruin’s perpendicularity, the Pits, was geologically part of the planet. Natural-ish caves.

Then Harmony went around and REMADE THE PLANET AGAIN.

Is it possible that most aluminum on Scadrial is just slightly more tainted by Harmony/Ruin/Preservation’s essence? Like, not enough to be too significant, but enough to allow Metallic Arts

Aluminum in the Arts is very rare - sure, it can be burnt to clear metals, but that is not storing power in the actual aluminum.

Aluminum Ferrings have not been seen on screen (wait… mayhaps they have. But at least, they’ve barely been on screen/bookpagething.), and it is possible it is simply more difficult to store that attribute. (It was Connection, right?)

Aluminum Hemalurgy is even freaking rarer. But it is noted as possible. It clears all powers - interestingly, this is an absolute. So…. You spike someone, it doesn’t matter how much investiture was there. The powers are just gone.

All that to say that

It could be possible for the aluminum to be tainted on Scadrial.

If I’m wrong, please correct me.

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

6 hours ago, SpiritOfWrath said:

So.

Aluminum.

The question has come up

Many times

of how the heck aluminum metallic arts exists.

Sososososo

Ruin/Preservation, they kinda messed up the whole planet - jerked it round ‘n’ such, made the Ashmounts, and all that good stuff.

And Ruin’s perpendicularity, the Pits, was geologically part of the planet. Natural-ish caves.

Then Harmony went around and REMADE THE PLANET AGAIN.

Is it possible that most aluminum on Scadrial is just slightly more tainted by Harmony/Ruin/Preservation’s essence? Like, not enough to be too significant, but enough to allow Metallic Arts

Aluminum in the Arts is very rare - sure, it can be burnt to clear metals, but that is not storing power in the actual aluminum.

Aluminum Ferrings have not been seen on screen (wait… mayhaps they have. But at least, they’ve barely been on screen/bookpagething.), and it is possible it is simply more difficult to store that attribute. (It was Connection, right?)

Aluminum Hemalurgy is even freaking rarer. But it is noted as possible. It clears all powers - interestingly, this is an absolute. So…. You spike someone, it doesn’t matter how much investiture was there. The powers are just gone.

All that to say that

It could be possible for the aluminum to be tainted on Scadrial.

If I’m wrong, please correct me.

well, aluminum is different from silver. Investiture can still do stuff with it (you can soulcast aluminum, its just harder) and it has been theorized that you cannot tap aluminum (aluminum is feruchemical identity). Hemalurgic Aluminum makes sense, because what does aluminum mainly do? It cuts of investiture connection. Its like an investiture insulator. So, if you were to stick that insulator, that blocker, into someone's spiritweb, they wouldn'gt be able to acces/utilize it. And, aluminum clearing your metals makes sense, you give it some energy, and it just blocks off the energy from accessing the rest.

Forgive my rant, and all my spelling errors, I just am interested in scadrial and know a lot about metals and aluminum

Edited May 20, 2025 by CoderDrag0n8

[Through the Living Wrath he/him]

Just now, CoderDrag0n8 said:

well, aluminum is different from silver. Investiture can still do stuff with it (you can soulcast aluminum, its just harder) and it has been theorized that you cannot tap aluminum (aluminum is feruchemical connection). Hemalurgic Aluminum makes sense, because what does aluminum mainly do? It cuts of investiture connection. Its like an investiture insulator. So, if you were to stick that insulator, that blocker, into someone's spiritweb, they wouldn'gt be able to acces/utilize it. And, aluminum clearing your metals makes sense, you give it some energy, and it just blocks off the energy from accessing the rest.

Forgive my rant, and all my spelling errors, I just am interested in scadrial and know a lot about metals and aluminum

But that doesn’t answer how you can stuff stuf into it in the first place - it’s been theorized that you can’t tap, but you can store.

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

1 minute ago, SpiritOfWrath said:

But that doesn’t answer how you can stuff stuf into it in the first place - it’s been theorized that you can’t tap, but you can store.

yes becasuse, just like with soulcasting, it still can be affected by investiture.

WoB:

Quote

ChickenBites

Can you Soulcast aluminum into other materials?

Brandon Sanderson

Aluminum would strongly resist any sort of Soulcasting.

Billy Todd

Would that resistance be overcome? Could be overcome?

Brandon Sanderson

This is the question. Everything can be, right? Aluminum, in the cosmere, was created. And can be created. So, people ask me this, "Can? Cannot?" Like, with a powerful enough magnet in our world, what can you do? Like, is water magnetic? ...But, could you make water respond to a magnet? Yes! You can make anything if you really try hard enough... It's, like, this idea, that when people are like, "Can you, yes or no?" Well... yes! Would it take the power of six Shards of Adonalsium working together? Maybe! Can you? Yes, you probably can. Like, we're talking about a fantasy universe where almost anything is possible, and the impossibilities are contradictions, it's "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin" sort of questions when you get into "can you?"

Now, could you Soulcast aluminum using a reasonable amount of energy that an individual could conceivably have in a normal setting and situation? No. If that's what you're looking for.

 

[Through the Living Wrath he/him]

2 minutes ago, CoderDrag0n8 said:

yes becasuse, just like with soulcasting, it still can be affected by investiture.

WoB:

 

But his reasoning for why aluminum can be Soulcast is very similar to the argument that I made as to why it works.

Plus, soulcasting is less pushing investiture into it.

If ya think of it like bridges,

Aluminum would be a blockaded bridge, right? So if you try to move some investiture over, it won’t get thru.

And soulcasting is like sending an order to de-blockade. It would take a while for the word to get around, and it would take even longer to dismantle the blockade.

But it would be dismantled eventually.

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

2 minutes ago, SpiritOfWrath said:

But his reasoning for why aluminum can be Soulcast is very similar to the argument that I made as to why it works.

Plus, soulcasting is less pushing investiture into it.

If ya think of it like bridges,

Aluminum would be a blockaded bridge, right? So if you try to move some investiture over, it won’t get thru.

And soulcasting is like sending an order to de-blockade. It would take a while for the word to get around, and it would take even longer to dismantle the blockade.

But it would be dismantled eventually.

I don't see why the same logic wouldn't apply to feruchemy.

Feruchemy is like a box, right? So aluminum would just be an inaccessible box. You can still move things through it (a 'perfect' immovable/unenergy transferable object doesn't exist) it is just harder. But then, you cannot take it out.

Closest WoB I could find:

Quote

Paleo

Does aluminum actually store Identity or is it more like a sink so you just dump it in and it poofs away.

Brandon Sanderson

I'll RAFO that for now. Sorry, I want to get into that eventually.

 

[Through the Living Wrath he/him]

Just now, CoderDrag0n8 said:

I don't see why the same logic wouldn't apply to feruchemy.

Feruchemy is like a box, right? So aluminum would just be an inaccessible box. You can still move things through it (a 'perfect' immovable/unenergy transferable object doesn't exist) it is just harder. But then, you cannot take it out.

Closest WoB I could find:

 

Well, if you move things through it, it would be more of an environmental thing. Like, if you push a box, the box gets pushed. But you can’t individually push the stuff inside the box.

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

2 hours ago, SpiritOfWrath said:

Well, if you move things through it, it would be more of an environmental thing. Like, if you push a box, the box gets pushed. But you can’t individually push the stuff inside the box.

This is getting very confusing.

I do not think that Brandon Sanderson would pull an 'aluminum is just special here because yeah'. I get that you have your own reasons, but I think we can agree that it would seem a bit cheap.

[Treamayne]

14 hours ago, SpiritOfWrath said:

It could be possible for the aluminum to be tainted on Scadrial.

No. 

A Mistborn burning Aluminum from another Shardworld would get the same effect (ditto Feruchemist/Hemalurgist). The difference for the Metallic Arts is not in the Metals - it's in the Magic. The metallic arts are literally causing base Realmatic Properties of Metals to be expressed due to their molecular structure. If the Aluminum (Ralkalest) were tainted, the molecular structure would be wrong and it would not be viable for any Metallic Arts at all.

Spoiler

Quote

Steeldancer

When a Feruchemist stores their charge in a metal, where is that going? Is that going into molecules, is that going into the Spiritual essence of the metal, is that sort of a Cognitive - what is that?

Brandon Sanderson

It is charging it in...in cosmere terms, more on the Spiritual level, but there are connections to the Physical as well. It's not 100% on the Spiritual.

Steeldancer

It's not changing the molecular structure?

Brandon Sanderson

It is not going to change the molecular structure. If you brought that metal to Earth, somehow, and tested it, you wouldn't be able to tell any difference. Because we just don't have that element.

Steeldancer

You can't test for Investiture on Earth

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. In the cosmere, you can.

Skyward release party (Nov. 6, 2018)

Quote

Andrew The Great (paraphrased)

What would happen if a person were to burn a metal that was Feruchemically charged using Allomancy?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

The metal used in Allomancy is like a key or a doorway to the power that Allomancy actually uses. The metal acts as a filter, much as the Aons in Elantris do, to determine what the power actually does. However, if the metal is Feruchemically charged, then it will basically become a super-burst of Feruchemical power with no Allomantic effect. The Feruchemical charge acts as a filter as well as the metal, and changes what the power does. in this case, say you were burning steel, you would just be massively speedy for a second, and wouldn't actually have the ability to push on anything Allomantically. Hope that answered the question. I get the concept, so if you need me to explain it differently, let me know and I'll try. Oh, the other thing I forgot is that this concept only works if it's a metal that you charged yourself. If it's a metal someone else charged, it would just work like regular Allomancy, and the Feruchemical charge would just cease to exist.

Andrew The Great (paraphrased)

If someone aluminum or duralumin burned the Feruchemically charged metals, what would happen?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Basically the same thing as above, except with aluminum. Aluminum, they would just go away.

Idaho Falls Signing (June 20, 2009)

Quote

Edited for length and relevance:

 

Brandon Sanderson

Oooooh, ok. Hm. That one is so hard! Every time people ask me something like this... What have I never been asked that people should be asking, is basically what the question is? Something that the fans have just missed... They pick up on so much, that it’s hard... I do wonder if, you know… all the magic systems [in my books] are connected and work on some basic fundamental principles, and a lot of people haven’t been asking questions about this. One thing I did get a question on today, and I’ll just talk about this one... they didn’t ask the right question, but I nudged them the right way, is understanding that tie between AonDor [the magic system from Elantris] and Allomancy [Mistborn’s magic system].

People ask about getting the power from metals and things, but that’s not actually how it works. The power’s not coming from metal. I talked a little about this before, but you are drawing power from some source, and the metal is actually just a gateway. It’s actually the molecular structure of the metal… what’s going on there, the pattern, the resonance of that metal works in the same way as an Aon does in Elantris. It filters the power. So it is just a sign of “this is what power this energy is going to be shaped into and give you.” When you understand that, Compounding [in Alloy of Law] makes much more sense.

Open The Fridge Interview (Nov. 16, 2011)

Spoilers for Tress and Stormlight Archive:

Spoiler

You should notice in those books how the Realmatic Properties of Metal are expressed in other magic Systems - e. g. Steel pushes and Iron pull, but different magic sytstmes interact differently, so what is being pushed or pulled changes.

 

 

14 hours ago, SpiritOfWrath said:

Aluminum Hemalurgy is even freaking rarer. But it is noted as possible. It clears all powers - interestingly, this is an absolute. So…. You spike someone, it doesn’t matter how much investiture was there. The powers are just gone.

Just to be clear: that is a fan theory, it is not supported by books or WoBs (unless you have some direct evidence).

Hope that helps.

Edited May 20, 2025 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Through the Living Wrath he/him]

3 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

No. 

A Mistborn burning Aluminum from another Shardworld would get the same effect (ditto Feruchemist/Hemalurgist). The difference for the Metallic Arts is not in the Metals - it's in the Magic. The metallic arts are literally causing base Realmatic Properties of Metals to be expressed due to their molecular structure. If the Aluminum (Ralkalest) were tainted, the melecular structure would be wrong and it would not be viable for any Metallic Arts at all.

  Reveal hidden contents

Spoilers for Tress and Stormlight Archive:

  Reveal hidden contents

You should notice in those books how the Realmatic Properties of Metal are expressed in other magic Systems - e. g. Steel pushes and Iron pull, but different magic sytstmes interact differently, so what is being pushed or pulled changes.

 

 

Just to be clear: that is a fan theory, it is not supported by books or WoBs (unless you have some direct evidence).

Hope that helps.

It’s in the Lost Metal Ars Arcanum

But good points

[Treamayne]

13 minutes ago, SpiritOfWrath said:

It’s in the Lost Metal Ars Arcanum

But good points

Yes, that's what inspired the fan theory. But the grand total of that information is actually: (TLM AA)

Spoiler

Aluminum    Destroys Your Allomantic Reserves    Stores Identity        Removes All Powers

ALUMINUM: A Mistborn who burns aluminum instantly metabolizes all of their metals without giving any other effect, wiping all Allomantic reserves. Mistings who can burn aluminum are called Aluminum Gnats due to the ineffectiveness of this ability by itself. Trueself Ferrings can store their Spiritual sense of Identity in an aluminum metalmind. This is an art rarely spoken of outside of Terris communities, and even among them it is not yet well understood. Aluminum and a few of its alloys are Allomantically inert; they cannot be Pushed or Pulled and can be used to shield an individual from emotional Allomancy.

Notably, what it does not say is if the Aluminum spike requires a Hemalurgic Charge to remove powers. Does an Aluminum Earring remove powers? We don't know. Will the "remove powers" happen with any Bind point? We don't know. Does it have to be "empty" or "full" to remove powers? We don't know.

It was left vague on-purpose, so that Brandon could explain it as the Scientific Method gains more traction on Scadrial and they start figuring it out. I'm not saying your conclusion is wrong - I am merely saying that presenting it as fact is not fully correct because we do not have enough information (and it gives new readers bad information when theory is presented as canon fact).

Hope that helps.

Edited May 20, 2025 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Through the Living Wrath he/him]

1 minute ago, Treamayne said:

Yes, that's what inspired the fan theory. But the grand total of that information is actually: (TLM AA)

  Hide contents

Aluminum    Destroys Your Allomantic Reserves    Stores Identity        Removes All Powers

ALUMINUM: A Mistborn who burns aluminum instantly metabolizes all of their metals without giving any other effect, wiping all Allomantic reserves. Mistings who can burn aluminum are called Aluminum Gnats due to the ineffectiveness of this ability by itself. Trueself Ferrings can store their Spiritual sense of Identity in an aluminum metalmind. This is an art rarely spoken of outside of Terris communities, and even among them it is not yet well understood. Aluminum and a few of its alloys are Allomantically inert; they cannot be Pushed or Pulled and can be used to shield an individual from emotional Allomancy.

Notably, what it does not say is if the Aluminum spike requires a Hemalurgic Charge to remove powers. Does an Aluminum Earring remove powers? We don't know. Will the "remove powers" happen with any Bind point? We don't know. Does it have to be "empty" or "full" to remove powers? We don't know.

It was left vague on-purpose, so that Brandon could explain it as the Scientific Method gains more traction on Scadrial and they start figuring it out. I'm not saying your conclusion is wrong - I am mererly saying that presenting is as fact is not fully correct because we do not have enough information (and it gives new readers bad information when theory is presented as canon fact).

Hope that helps.

Thankses!

[Trusk'our he/him]

5 hours ago, CoderDrag0n8 said:

and it has been theorized that you cannot tap aluminum (aluminum is feruchemical connection).

Aluminum Feruchemy manipulates Identity, while Feruchemical duralumin affects Connection. 

Spoiler

Coppermind:

"Aluminum is the internal enhancement pulling metal. An Allomancer burning aluminum will make all of their metal reserves vanish. Feruchemists can use aluminum to store Identity, and when used as a Hemalurgic spike, aluminum removes all powers."

"Duralumin is the internal enhancement pushing metal. An Allomancer burning duralumin is able to greatly enhance other metals they are burning by releasing all of the power of the metals at once instead of over time. Feruchemists can use duralumin to store Connection, and when used as a Hemalurgic spike, duralumin steals Connection and Identity."

 

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

1 hour ago, Trusk'our said:

Aluminum Feruchemy manipulates Identity, while Feruchemical duralumin affects Connection. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Coppermind:

"Aluminum is the internal enhancement pulling metal. An Allomancer burning aluminum will make all of their metal reserves vanish. Feruchemists can use aluminum to store Identity, and when used as a Hemalurgic spike, aluminum removes all powers."

"Duralumin is the internal enhancement pushing metal. An Allomancer burning duralumin is able to greatly enhance other metals they are burning by releasing all of the power of the metals at once instead of over time. Feruchemists can use duralumin to store Connection, and when used as a Hemalurgic spike, duralumin steals Connection and Identity."

 

did I say coonection? i meant identity. Thanks for catching that!

[Trusk'our he/him]

10 hours ago, CoderDrag0n8 said:

did I say coonection? i meant identity. Thanks for catching that!

Happens to all of us 

[Duxredux he/him]

Chemistry, and material science ahead.

Now I don't have anything to directly back this up, but Aluminum's property where it almost never reacts is not the same as unreactive. For example, the term "noble" in the periodic table of elements refers to elements that do not readily form chemical bonds with other elements. Silver, gold, and platinum are noble metals because they are highly resistant to corrosion. For a long time it was thought that all the noble gasses like helium, neon, argon, kryton, etc. were completely unreactive, but that isn't the case, it just takes very specialized circumstances that rarely if ever happen in nature (at least while under observation). Sure, I'll buy that a human with a Spiritweb that is specifically adapted to utilize aluminum will be able to do things with it that most of the Cosmere can't, either Allomantically or Feruchemically.

If you think about it, Allomantic Duralumin is 96% aluminum, 4% copper. At that ratio it's quite possible that there are aluminum atoms that are not adjacent to a copper atom, yet shavings of this alloy enhance the Metallic Arts to an incredible degree. It's not like a Mistborn burning Pewter will periodically get pockets of Tin stores in the process. The entire system is based on pure metals having radically different properties when properly alloyed with sometimes a hint of another material. Aluminum atoms in of themselves are not completely inert when it comes to Investiture otherwise duralumin shouldn't work either. When the alloying process is done properly (assuming they do it like they would IRL), the property of the aluminum itself is altered by the introduction of the copper. Even if you get a tiny sample of duralumin that has no elemental copper in it from a chemical standpoint, the aluminum would still have the properties gained from the alloying process. Chemically it could be pure aluminum but still have the properties of the lattice structure introduced by the copper. We know that elemental aluminum can hold a charge of Investiture - that's how the Connection Medallions work in the first place.

Now a big unknown is how much of this is relevant to what Brandon decided when he was designing all of this, so all of this may or may not be relevant - but I expect that he would lean into a science explanation when he can if the alternative is author handwavium.

Edited May 21, 2025 by Duxredux
Clarity