5/12/25-ginger_reckoning-a song for silence-sub 20-4745 words, (L, S)

[ginger_reckoning]

Some tags this time for implied abuse, not detailed. 

Hey! This is one of the first sections I thought up, so I want to keep it but I am still worried that it might not work. Mainly just looking for general notes, maybe for ways to make it more engaging or any inconsistencies. Thanks again! 

 

[Appol PhD they/he]

Overall: I like the idea of S and A’s worldviews coming into clash in the form of this competition, but I think there’s a lot of work to be done here for a few reasons:

-Everything about it feels a bit arbitrary in how it comes up and how it’s decided. When characters have to make progress by winning debates, usually the story has to concrete lines of logic for them to follow. While reading, I was comparing this to courtroom scenes where it’s very clear what characters have to prove and how they’re supposed to go about proving it (and also that it’s in a controlled setting rather than popping up impromptu)

-There’s not a lot of fanfare to it. Obviously not everything has to be a big climactic moment but for the focus to be on proving such a fundamental principle it doesn’t feel like there’s a lot at stake.

-Whether or not the world is good or evil doesn’t seem to be something that’s an important idea of the story outside of this. A’s goal of stopping S isn’t really affected by whether or not she thinks the world is good, so it doesn’t feel as connected to the big themes of the story as it seems like it wants to be.

This culminates in the feeling that—and forgive me for this being pretty blunt—this passage feels less like it’s part of a story and more like I’m overhearing an argument while walking down the street. Like I said, I do like the idea, but I have a hard time seeing this working without some pretty major changes to how it’s framed.

As I go:

Pg 1. I do think S beginning to take on the human attributes of people it absorbs is a good arc, though I think we’re missing some narrative tension by it happening mostly in these lowkey moments.

Pg 5. I’m still mostly engaged but it feels like we’re getting a bit distracted from the objective here.

Pg 6. I think I mentioned this last time but while it’s a fun idea the bet doesn’t feel super substantial to me because it seems to come up on its own without being super connected to the rest of what’s going on. Also, is there anything actually forcing them to keep their end of the deal if they lose?

Pg 7. Is this world capitalist? I assumed it had a market economy but not a corporation and venture capital system.

-D feeling like this is a distraction is kind of the way I’m feeling. In addition to the above point about the bet not gripping me S’s setup is pretty long-winded here.

Pg 8-9. I get that the flashback is supposed to hit at larger ideas for the story, but the whole debate about whether the world is good or evil is one I haven’t been hooked by so it feels like we’re just getting a flashback for a minor character I’m not invested in.

Pg 11. A’s belief that pain makes her stronger is something I’ve been interested in tracking, but I don’t think it coming out in a debate with S is the right place. I think we need something more solid than S talking to her to challenge this worldview.

Pg 12. I think another issue is that when the decision of who gets the point feels arbitrary like it does in this case, it’s hard to be invested.

Pg 15-16. Similar comments with this debate. Watching them argue about abstract concepts without clear systems for how they’re supposed to prove the intangible makes this feel a bit arbitrary.

[ginger_reckoning]

 

35 minutes ago, Ace of Hearts said:

Overall: I like the idea of S and A’s worldviews coming into clash in the form of this competition, but I think there’s a lot of work to be done here for a few reasons:

Yeah, all this is pretty much exactly what I was afraid of haha. Like I said, this is one of the first scenes I wrote for the book, and I would really love at least the idea behind it to stay in the story in some form. Basically my idea behind it is that throughout the course of this competition, A and S flip their viewpoints 180, culminating with them visiting a camp of cursed individuals that leads to A being really depressed, S's worldview being shattered right before having to fight the dragon. Which, they then fail spectacularly at, so they can finally agree to see past their mutual hatred for a while to work together. Anyway, the debate isn't really supposed to be settled so I didn't give it much actual narrative weight since for me its not really the debate that is the focus. Like, my point here rather is to show that such a debate is meaningless since the world isn't good or bad. I can see how that would make this hard to read though.

I wonder if a debate scene like this might work better after they face the dragon and have a little more respect for each other? As more of a like semi-friendly contest rather. Or if this scene just doesn't add enough to be in here. 

Edited May 19, 2025 by ginger_reckoning

[Appol PhD they/he]

14 hours ago, ginger_reckoning said:

I wonder if a debate scene like this might work better after they face the dragon and have a little more respect for each other? As more of a like semi-friendly contest rather. Or if this scene just doesn't add enough to be in here. 

I think even if it's a semi-friendly contest it still runs into the issue of feeling like a bit of a distraction from the story, since right now it feels like there's no reason the story has to show it all in scene.

I feel like usually when arguments work well in fiction, it's around specific decisions with clear weight that characters are making based on their ideology rather than the ideology itself. So I guess my advice would be tackle it from a different angle and focus on where you want these characters to have agency in the plot, and how ideological debates can work into that. Though as always any prescriptive suggestion I can give may or may not be a good fit for your story.

[ginger_reckoning]

Yeah, I think you're right. So much as I think these scenes were fun to write, I think this page count might be better spent elsewhere. I think getting to the confrontation with the dragon sooner will be better for the pacing. I think what I might try is still having them both mention their viewpoints as before, and may even keep the argument about becoming strong (in a different context) but have this section focus more briefly on them gathering allies and A getting a darker mindset through some other event