L0N3STARR he/him Posted March 21, 2025 Posted March 21, 2025 (edited) Been studying up on god metals, aluminum, silver, Adonalsium, and so on. I have many thoughts, and am going to try to make them all fit in this discussion topic. First off, Brandon has repeatedly RAFO'd questions on relationships between aluminum and Adonalsium of basically any form. He has said some interesting things about the difference between aluminum and silver. I find this WoB particularly interesting. Quote https://wob.coppermind.net/events/518/#e16183 Argent It seems there is a special interaction between silver and Investiture, in at least certain places in the Cosmere. We've seen how silver interacts with aethers, and we've seen over on Threnody. So that makes silver the second really really special metal to interact with investiture. Is the plan now to have aluminum block investiture, and silver destroy investiture? Brandon Sanderson Yeah, that's the way I'm going with it. To make a distinction between them, that's where we're going. Argent But silver is still non-Allomantic. No silvereyes. Brandon Sanderson No, non-Allomantic, yup. No silvereyes. This is my nod towards silvereye-ness, and yeah, there we go. Argent So would [silver] be effective against spren, just like [anti-Investiture]? Brandon Sanderson Well, you'll have to find out. RAFO! Footnote: Argent tried. He also horribly mangled his last question, but it got RAFO'd, so that doesn't matter... Shardcast Interview (July 30, 2023) So some theories - not necessarily related, and occasionally in conflict... Theory 1 - Is Aluminum Adonalsium's God Metal? It's been theorized a great deal, at least in WoB. My gut reaction is no. But let's discuss reasons it could be. It's found everywhere in the Cosmere, but is very rare, pre industrial revolution. If Adonalsium is or was a building block of creation and existence in the Cosmere, it would make sense that it would be found everywhere, but also that it would be rare. But it would also make sense why, post industrial revolution, it became very abundant. If you have the appropriate methodology, why couldn't you easily break things down to their most base element, the building block of creation, aluminum. Additionally, aluminum is resistant to investiture. Could this be because, at it's core, aluminum IS investiture? Reasons I don't like this theory: It seems like aluminum has almost an opposite effect, rather than providing investiture, it resists investiture. This leads to an alternate theory that I MAY like better. Theory 2 - Adonalsium and Aluminum - Opposites, Gods, and all the rest. I think this is, in my opinion, one of the two most interesting ideas I'll bring up in this post, so forgive me if I wax long. It has been indicated that there may be (or even explicitly is, depending on how you read the WoB) an opposite or opposing force to Adonalsium. Let us look at the names. Adonalsium. Aluminum (or the British Aluminium). I'm not certain it's coincidence. Maybe, pre shattering, there were two beings. Two opposing forces. Yin and Yang. Adonals (Ado), and Alumin. They were the co-creators of the Cosmere. Or perhaps, they were creators of two connected universes. A Cosmere and a Arccosmere (dumb math joke because I didn't know what the other name may be, can't find a good root meaning for "cos" that Brandon would conceivably have used). And what if Adonalsium and Aluminum are the god metals of these beings, or forces? Adonalsium is pure investiture, and Aluminium is that which resists it, or impedes it. I really like this idea. Why don't we see the metal Adonalsium throughout the Cosmere? Because it all lives in the spiritual realm, fueling the investiture of the Cosmere. And Aluminium (ralkalest, brought by meteors) is present to resist it. Sent on meteors by this other being or force. Maybe the shattering was necessary and a choice, made by Adonals and the those who were there at the shattering, to help take investiture and magics and life across the Cosmere to prepare for a coming opposition. Or alternatively, Where does silver come into play? It is not allomantically viable. It destroys investiture. So what if, rather than being at odds, Alumin and Adonals were truly yin and yang, working together to resist "the dark aether" the destroyer, the opposition, which is the progenitor of silver? You can even look at Era 1 of Mistborn being Brandon trying his hand at this. Creating this yin yang, co-creator conflict between Ruin and Preservation as a hint for things that had happened, and that would happen, across the entirety of the Cosmere. Theory 3 - Aluminum, Ralkalest, Ulidamium? Could Aluminum be the God metal of Uli Da, the vessel of the Shard Ambition? Brandon has said that the splintering of Ambition has had disturbing affects on Threnody and far reaching effects in the Cosmere. What if that's how Aluminum can be found on any planet within the Cosmere? Because when Ambition was splintered, when Odium "tore off chunks of her power" those chunks were spread across the Cosmere. And maybe there is some relationship, some alloying, or some affect or relationship between Aluminum and silver, with silver being most well understood by the Threnodites because they were the first to face and resist the affects of the death of Ambition. Theory 4 - Is Hoid a Cognitive Shadow? Now let me preface this by saying I think we have evidence that the answer is no, based on previous WoB. I brought up a theory last May that maybe Hoid had been Adonalsium, or was an Avatar of Adonalsium, which received mixed opinions, and one argument made was that a previous WoB says that Hoid was born naturally. But Brandon, we've found, can say things that are "technically" true while not being completely forthwith, and that could be the case here. This is the other of the most interesting (to me) ideas that I wanted to bring up in this post. Anyways, where does this idea come from? I read a WoB that I found very interesting... Quote https://wob.coppermind.net/events/474/#e15088 Ninety Did Adonalisum leave a Cognitive Shadow? And if so, has Hoid spoken to it? Brandon Sanderson RAFO; good question. There's an enormous RAFO. YouTube Livestream 35 (Sept. 9, 2021) Why is this such an enormous RAFO? Maybe because Hoid IS the cognitive shadow, that which remains, of the former vessel of Adonalsium, or perhaps part of Hoid is that cognitive shadow. And we know that not every cognitive shadow is the same. Kelsier's cognitive shadow remains largely the same, however Tanavast's cognitive shadow merged with the Stormfather, creating something new. Returned are the "same" being, driven by an intent, but without recollection or memory of how they came to be where they are. So, maybe the intent, the mantle of Adonalsium settled on an apprentice, friend, child, heir, of Adonalsium to continue to advance his intent and purpose. He can move throughout the universe because he is inherently connected to it. He is driven by an intent to save the Cosmere because he took part in its creation. He knows where he needs to be, but not what he needs to do, because Adonalsium saw into the spiritual realm and saw what would be, and is pushing Hoid in the right direction, while not having a complete understanding or knowledge of what to do once he gets there. Edited March 21, 2025 by L0N3STARR Remove Itallics 1
L0N3STARR he/him Posted March 21, 2025 Author Posted March 21, 2025 Feeling more confident in my Hoid Cognitive Shadow theory now reading this one. Quote https://wob.coppermind.net/events/172/#e8432 Questioner Is Hoid an avatar from Autonomy? Brandon Sanderson No. Good question. He is independent. Questioner He's human, but he's more than human? He's changed from all the places he's been? Brandon Sanderson Even before that he's not exactly one hundred percent human anymore. But he's his own agent. He's not an avatar of somebody. Oathbringer San Diego signing (Nov. 14, 2017)
CoderDrag0n8 He/Him Posted March 21, 2025 Posted March 21, 2025 2 hours ago, L0N3STARR said: Theory 4 - Is Hoid a Cognitive Shadow? Now let me preface this by saying I think we have evidence that the answer is no, based on previous WoB. I brought up a theory last May that maybe Hoid had been Adonalsium, or was an Avatar of Adonalsium, which received mixed opinions, and one argument made was that a previous WoB says that Hoid was born naturally. But Brandon, we've found, can say things that are "technically" true while not being completely forthwith, and that could be the case here. This is the other of the most interesting (to me) ideas that I wanted to bring up in this post. Anyways, where does this idea come from? I read a WoB that I found very interesting... Quote https://wob.coppermind.net/events/474/#e15088 Ninety Did Adonalisum leave a Cognitive Shadow? And if so, has Hoid spoken to it? Brandon Sanderson RAFO; good question. There's an enormous RAFO. YouTube Livestream 35 (Sept. 9, 2021) Why is this such an enormous RAFO? Maybe because Hoid IS the cognitive shadow, that which remains, of the former vessel of Adonalsium, or perhaps part of Hoid is that cognitive shadow. And we know that not every cognitive shadow is the same. Kelsier's cognitive shadow remains largely the same, however Tanavast's cognitive shadow merged with the Stormfather, creating something new. Returned are the "same" being, driven by an intent, but without recollection or memory of how they came to be where they are. So, maybe the intent, the mantle of Adonalsium settled on an apprentice, friend, child, heir, of Adonalsium to continue to advance his intent and purpose. He can move throughout the universe because he is inherently connected to it. He is driven by an intent to save the Cosmere because he took part in its creation. He knows where he needs to be, but not what he needs to do, because Adonalsium saw into the spiritual realm and saw what would be, and is pushing Hoid in the right direction, while not having a complete understanding or knowledge of what to do once he gets there. These are good theories, and I like them all, but the shards have talked to him like a friend, and he has remarked (WaT spoilers): Spoiler He has remarked that he (Paraphrase) 'Has given up power before' refrencing the shattering. He was there, and could have taken a shard, but didn't. While I LOVE that theory, If hoid was adonalsium's cognitive shadow, the shards wouldn't know him as a friend, and he wouldn't of 'given up' the power of the shards
DoctaDajman Posted March 22, 2025 Posted March 22, 2025 3 hours ago, L0N3STARR said: It's been theorized a great deal, at least in WoB. My gut reaction is no. I would like to add to this theory that I find it odd that adonalsiums God metal would fit so easily in the allomantic table as well when we see no other God Metals within the core 16. I dont think this is enough to prove it isn't his God metal but I do think it would be really odd if it turned out to be that way. Is there something special about that slot? Also Harmony has hinted at how aluminum will become cheap and easy to come by soon... maybe that is a good point to its rareness. Are other God Metals just one technological advancement away from becoming commonplace? 1
Duxredux he/him Posted March 22, 2025 Posted March 22, 2025 (edited) I had a very similar theory when I first joined the Shard, so you're definitely starting to piece things together. Notably the part in ES where they believed Ralkalest to be pieces of a dying god was where I started thinking about it. Nowadays, I would be very surprised if Aluminum wasn't what it apparently says on the cover, namely that it is an element comprised of 13 protons, 13 electrons, and around the same number of neutrons that happens to have interesting properties in the Cosmere due to the interaction (or lack thereof) with Investiture. I'll see if I can dig up that old post, but until then, here's some of the points that lead me to think that Aluminum is not a Godmetal for Adonalsium or Ambition. Aluminum on Scadrial has been harvested in a couple of ways that would seem very unusual if it were formed via Perpendicularity. Era 1 it was harvested from the inside of the ashmounts. Era 2 they have figured out electrolysis to produce Aluminum. I'd need a really good explanation for why a Godmetal can be made with such mundane processess. One of the reasons why Ralkalest is a name for Aluminum and has been seen on a couple worlds is because the name Ralkalest is Yolish in origin. I may be extrapolating a bit far from this, but I assume that if Ralkalest was Adonalsium's godmetal that there would probably be some sort of linguistic connection between the two names, but I don't see any sort of relationship between the two terms. This also is why I don't think it's pieces of Ambition either. Third reason, though this is getting into TLM era, is that they are learning more advanced methods of elemental classification and technology. Wax has a spectrometer that lets him identify metals and godmetals alike by specroscopic analysis. His big clue that Trellium was a Godmetal was that it produced effects impossible for normal elements, sending the meter clear off the scale - as it did for Harmonium. I would assume that Scadrian scientists in the big scramble to classify everything would have tested all of the basic stuff, and Aluminum for its value would have definitely been tested. If Aluminum had Godmetal spectral properties, Wax almost certainly would have known. Come Era 3, if Aluminum did have this property, there's no way it wouldn't be known. We also know that Soulcasters can produce Aluminum, but can't Soulcast it into something else once it is made. We also know that Soulcasters can't create Godmetals, the Investiture messes that kind of thing up. WoBs in the spoiler to make them compact. Spoiler Spoiler Questioner So, we know that things can be Soulcast into aluminum. But can aluminum itself be Soulcast into something else? Brandon Sanderson It resists all forms of Investiture trying to change it to things. Oathbringer release party (Nov. 13, 2017) Spoiler ninch Could a person Soulcast more atium and lerasium if they had a bead? Brandon Sanderson No. Investiture messes things like that up. General Signed Books 2014 (April 29, 2014) Spoiler Pagerunner The specific word "ralkalest," it appears on multiple worlds. Why did you use that instead of just saying "aluminum"? Brandon Sanderson This is mostly us just being cheeky. I like fantasy names for star metal, and I came up with ralkalest because... I go back and forth sometimes about how much I just want to call something what it is in translation, and how much I want to call... In this case, I decided ralkalest sounds cool, it evokes the feeling of the people in world viewing this metal, where they have this view of it as this mythical, magical sort of thing. And simply calling it "aluminum" doesn't convey that in the same way, the mythology associated with it. So I use both, but it's like there's two different languages, and when I'm using "ralkalest," it's more evoking their view of this metal. Pagerunner On Sel, Shai says one word, and Raboniel says another word, neither of them are saying aluminum? Neither of them are saying some other word that doesn't exist in English? Brandon Sanderson Right, they are both saying, ralkalest would be a transliteration of the actual word in world. Pagerunner But which language, which transliteration? Brandon Sanderson Oh, which language does ralkalest come from? I think ralkalest is probably original Yolish, but I haven't actually sat down and written that down. But that's what I would say now, that we're looking for kind of a mythological level. And a lot of times if you're gonna get a mythological term that's gonna transfer across worlds, it's gonna go back to what it was called on Yolen, right? Some of the words from Yolen are kind of like the way that we use Old English, or even... Latin's weird in English, so it's not really Latin. Latin and Greek have both been incorporated into scientific terms for things. But ancient terms, maybe more like Hebrew. Sometimes there's just some words that feel mythological. Some Yolish terms, because of that, kind of flow through the cosmere. JordanCon 2021 (July 16, 2021) What makes a Godmetal a Godmetal is that it is Investiture manifested in a physical form. It has greater "energy" than standard matter and is one of the reasons that it is valuable in the first place (energy is a term I'm using loosely since Investiture is technically not matter or energy since it's the third component that is natural within the Cosmere). I make the assumption that an anti-Adonalsium would need a similar ballpark of power and scale to be on equal footing, but it doesn't look to me like aluminum fits that bill. Yes, the property of Aluminum makes it a prime tool for hazekilling (killing Invested people), but it is made so mundanely that I don't see it having the necessary power/energy/Investiture to make it the substance of Shards or something on the scale of Adonalsium. Natural elements can seemlingly defy reason, like how pure potassium can ignite in humid air. We are not used to blocks of metal seemingly spontaneously igniting, but it can happen under the proper circumstances. As for Hoid being Adonalsium's Cognitive Shadow, Hoid was born on Yolen before the Shattering (as you noted). I don't see how this lets him be Adonalsium without some really weird hijinks. His immortality I believe comes from his former status as a holder of a Dawnshard. Spoiler Spoiler Questioner Can you tell us what planet Hoid originally comes from? Brandon Sanderson He comes from Yolen, he really is. There's no trickery there. Oathbringer San Diego signing (Nov. 14, 2017) Spoiler dgenio8 (paraphrased) Was the Hoid we see born naturally, or was he created? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) He was born naturally. Lisbon signing (Nov. 7, 2016) Spoiler Questioner The nature of humans on different worlds, like people from Warbreaker have a Breath, people from Scadrial, do they have a Breath as well? Brandon Sanderson They do not. Questioner That's specific to the Endowment Shard? Brandon Sanderson Yup. Questioner I've read that Hoid does have a Breath. Was he born with a Breath or-- Brandon Sanderson Hoid was not born on Taldain-- err Nalthis, on Nalthis. So no, he did not start with one. But the magic was much different when he started. He was before the Shattering of Adonalsium so things are weird regarding him. Holiday signing (Dec. 12, 2015) As for this WoB: Quote https://wob.coppermind.net/events/172/#e8432 Questioner Is Hoid an avatar from Autonomy? Brandon Sanderson No. Good question. He is independent. Questioner He's human, but he's more than human? He's changed from all the places he's been? Brandon Sanderson Even before that he's not exactly one hundred percent human anymore. But he's his own agent. He's not an avatar of somebody. Oathbringer San Diego signing (Nov. 14, 2017) This part of him no longer being entirely human extends to quite a few other entities in the Cosmere that perhaps fit a similar bill. Lift, Steel Inquisitors, and likely other former Dawnshards. Presumably Nomad in TSM also fits this bill. Spoiler Spoiler Axies (paraphrased) Is Hoid human? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Yes... but. Hoid is... you can say that he is still human, but his DNA have changed. Now he is human but you wouldn't call him Homo sapiens anymore. It happens something similar with the Steel Inquisitors Barcelona signing (Nov. 3, 2016) Spoiler Questioner Is Lift entirely human? Brandon Sanderson That's a wonderful question. I would say yes; but the modifications that were made to her make her kind of a unique version of a human. If Hoid is still human, Lift is still human, if that makes sense. And you shouldn't be reading too much into that Hoid; it's just that he's had so many things happen to him over the years, and so many changes to his spiritweb, and things like that. I would say yes, he is still human, and Lift is as well, but there have been modifications made. Dragonsteel 2023 (Nov. 21, 2023) Spoiler Questioner (paraphrased) Is Hoid human? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Hoid was human a long time ago. Now... it's complicated. We would call him human, and so will pretty much everyone else, but he is not exactly that. Words of Radiance Chicago signing (March 22, 2014) Spoiler heroofpages I was going through the compiled WoB and came across two interesting pieces of information. So I guess a lead in question, you said that Hoid isn't quite human, so I was wondering if he wasn't quite human in the same way that inquisitors aren't quite human (i.e. alterations to spiritual DNA etc.)? And if so does he get his many investiture based powers in a similar way? Brandon Sanderson You are asking the right questions, and are thinking along correct lines. Stormlight Three Update #4 (Oct. 28, 2016) Spoiler Blightsong Would Hoid's spirit web seem more similar to that of a savant or a regular human? Brandon Sanderson Oh, neither one, but it would be weirder than a savant. OdysseyCon 2016 (April 8, 2016) It wouldn't surprise me at all if a fair chunk of 17th Shard joined because we started putting this together and came to similar hypotheses. We certainly have a lot of the WoBs regarding Hoid because people were trying to figure this kind of thing out. Well done! Edited March 22, 2025 by Duxredux clarity 5
Argenti he/him Posted March 23, 2025 Posted March 23, 2025 17 hours ago, Duxredux said: We also know that Soulcasters can't create Godmetals, the Investiture messes that kind of thing up. WoBs in the spoiler to make them compact. Well, they can. You just need extra juice. Like a ton of it.
Duxredux he/him Posted March 23, 2025 Posted March 23, 2025 5 hours ago, Argenti said: Well, they can. You just need extra juice. Like a ton of it. Considering how nitpicky I get sometimes, I shouldn't complain. Let's rephrase that to "Soulcasters can't create God metals without it being prohibitively expensive, requiring more juice than can be supplied by Dalinar's Perpendicularity." A lot of these will have asterisks, since Brandon could technically say yes, a Soulcaster can make God metals - if Ascended at the time - and still technically be truthful. Throw enough Investiture at anything, and of course the rules change, hence why he makes these kinds of statements: Quote Questioner What if you Soulstamped a city? Brandon Sanderson Soulstaped a city... So if you're a really good Forger-- It is possible to do things like that, but it requires a lot of work and time. Just one thing to keep in mind with Soulstamps, and anything that does this, rewriting your spiritweb, right, like, requires Invesiture. A lot of Investiture. And so, for instance, what Shai can do is really cool, but what an Elantrian can do is gonna look a lot more dramatic, right? Shooting a column of fire, you would say "Which takes more power, making the wall have flowers on it or shooting a column of fire?" Making the wall have flowers takes way more Investiture. It's a lot easier to pull off some dramatic effects with others, but the actual changing of the soul and overwr-- ...So just keep in mind the extent-- This is why you don't see Shai Forge it so the whole building disappears. Right? And stuff like this. Which is not outside of reason for a couple of Elantrians with the right program to put into place. But I mean effectively-- They could blow it up, essentially, that's what they would do Bystander Make a new hole, rather than making one that has existed. Brandon Sanderson Yeah. Exactly. Do keep in mind, people like to ask, you've probably seen people ask, "Could I rewrite myself to be a Knight Radiant?" Right? WELL... There are certain things that you just-- you can't fake without enough energy that it becomes impractical. Usually what I use as an example to that is: Yes, we can turn hydrogen into gold, if we wanted to. Right? We can do that! It might take more energy than the earth creates in an entire year, but we can do that. I get a lot of questions with this that I'm like "is it possible?" and I'm like "Guys, is it possible?" ...You should probably be like, "Is it possible, with reasonable amounts of energy provided by one Invested person". Arcanum Unbounded Chicago signing (Dec. 6, 2016) Spoiler Haylo_Alex You've said before that Soulcasting can't create atium or lerasium which makes sense since they're made of Investiture from other Shards. But could a Soulcaster, perhaps in the proximity of Dalinar's perpendicularity, provide enough Stormlight to Soulcast something into Honor's Godmetal (tanavastium)? What about Cultivation's metal, or an alloy of both, like Shardblade metal? Brandon Sanderson So, creating a God Metal is not something that's done easily in the Cosmere. HOWEVER, it is possible. You'd need a ton of Investiture, and being near Dalinar's perpendicularity is unlikely to be enough. I'd say Soulcasting, or something akin to it, has the means to do this if it could obtain the proper power charge. Footnote: The questioner is mentioning this WoB. General Reddit 2020 (Sept. 4, 2020) My point about power consumption remains, that Aluminum is not prohibitively expensive to make, and so is almost certainly not Investiture manifested in a physical form. 4
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