DoctaDajman Posted March 14, 2025 Posted March 14, 2025 (edited) Things like hypnosis and drugs like scopolamine or ketamine can make people far more susceptible to suggestion. If used as a way to convince someone to use powers in the cosmere would the persons intent be intact enough to properly make use of invested arts? What level heightening do you suppose you could convince someone to gift you their breaths up until before they are immune to those effects? Do you think someone with connection manipulation would be limiting the intent of the other person if they used that to get it? Like duralumin feruchemy? If a koloss had a breath and you took control of them could you command them to gift you that breath? scopolamine Edited March 14, 2025 by DoctaDajman 1
Treamayne Posted March 15, 2025 Posted March 15, 2025 I'm not sure what happened to your fonts. Fixed in the quote. 2 hours ago, DoctaDajman said: Things like hypnosis and drugs like scopolamine or ketamine can make people far more susceptible to suggestion. If used as a way to convince someone to use powers in the cosmere would the persons intent be intact enough to properly make use of invested arts? What level heightening do you suppose you could convince someone to gift you their breaths up until before they are immune to those effects? Do you think someone with connection manipulation would be limiting the intent of the other person if they used that to get it? Like duralumin feruchemy? If a koloss had a breath and you took control of them could you command them to gift you that breath? scopolamine I feel like you may have the wrong interpretation of Intent. It's not about Person A convincing person B to do X. Intent is mostly, for example, you can't accidentally invoke an invested art. For Example, Adolin did not accidentally create a Hemalurgic Spike from his dagger despite killing Sadeas by stabbing him in a Hemalurgic Bind Point - because Adolin doesn't know about Hemalurgy and, therefore, had no Intent to create a Hemalurgic Spike. Szeth, in WoK required 10 Heartbeats to summon an Honorblade because his Perception was that it was needed, so his Intent required 10 Heatbeats to summon the blade, even though that is not normally required. WoBs: Spoiler Quote Questioner Allomancy requires, you need to be either a Misting or a Mistborn to be able to do that. But Hemalurgy you just need to stab someone through the heart. So what would stop someone on Roshar from using Hemalurgy, because it's not Innate? Do you have to be in proximity to Ruin? Brandon Sanderson Intent is a big part of a lot of the magics, including Hemalurgy, meaning that you need to know what you're doing. Or somebody needs to-- There needs to be Intent involved in what's happening to you. Questioner So like with Spook when he got spiked, where was the Intent? Brandon Sanderson The person who was driving that spike was being influenced by Ruin, and the Intent was there. Questioner So unless you knew what you were trying to do with a Hemalurgic spike, you couldn't do Hemalurgy? Brandon Sanderson You could not steal attributes no. Questioner 2 Is it possible to steal Surgebindings. Brandon Sanderson It is possible to steal Surgebinding. Questioner Is there going to be crossover, like is someone going to have Feruchemical powers and also Surgebinding? Brandon Sanderson That's a Read And Find Out. Holiday signing (Dec. 12, 2015) Quote Doc_John (paraphrased) Hey! If you had the correct Intent in mind, could you Command a Lifeless to follow a Knight's Radiant Ideal? Like could you command it to "Protect those who cannot protect themselves" Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Yes, this would be possible, though it would depend on the Lifeless and circumstances on how good a job they do at it. The command is a little abstract, and could end up not working as well as you want it to. General Reddit 2020 (Sept. 22, 2020) Quote Mojonero If someone without Identity Awakened an object, would anyone be able to recall the Breath? Would they need to have any breath to recall it, or could it be done by anyone at all? Brandon Sanderson If you could blank Identity + Awaken, yes, anyone could get it back. (Requires intent) RoW Release Party (Nov. 17, 2020) Quote mooglefrooglian If metals shape the Investiture in Allomancy, causing a Steelpush or whatever, how is it that the mists can be used to perform the same feat? What is 'shaping' the inhaled mists into a Steelpush, if there's no metal "nozzle" to do so? Brandon Sanderson Consistently through the cosmere, once you have the power in hand and it has permeated you, will becomes your nozzle. This can be seen in Warbreaker, where the power has been distributed and inhabits the people. The nozzle idea is important for Magics that are drawing power externally, as it keeps the power from overwhelming and destroying you. (Which, basically, happened to Vin at the end of the Trilogy--she got consumed by the magic. She became something new, now, so it didn't KILL her. It destroyed what she was, transformed her into something else.) So you see magics like on Sel and Scadrial where a specific nozzle is needed--as the power source is external, at least with Allomancy. Will and intent take a backseat, though still pop up on occasion. On Nalthis (and in a lesser way, Roshar) will and intent are more important, and what you are trying to do shapes the magic more directly. A little direct manifestation in this is found in the subtle differences between Allomancy and Feruchemy. In Allomancy, when you enhance the senses, you just get a blast of power--and all senses are enhanced, whether you want them all or not. In Feruchemy, you can be more precise, and pick a specific sense to store. The power is internal here, and therefore more limited in how much you can draw--but you can also be more precise with its manipulation. Note that Roshar Surgebinding is a special case, as the magical symbiosis there is stronger than it is on other worlds, as much of the magic involves bits of power who have become sapient. uchoo786 How much crossover is there in use? Like if one "breathes" in the mists they can use it to power their allomancy. Could an Allomancer utilize stormlight to power his allomancy as well? Brandon Sanderson Most of the magics can be hacked together in one way or another, but some are easier to interchange than others. /r/books AMA 2015 (May 25, 2015) Hope that helps 3
Duxredux he/him Posted March 15, 2025 Posted March 15, 2025 At any rate, when Ruin controls Inquisitors he can force them to talk, and use both Allomancy and Feruchemy. Similarly, Vin was able to force Human the Koloss to show her how Koloss are made - even without knowing the specifics. At a lower drug level, Wayne was able to still use his healing abilities even when doing his best to drink himself into a stupor prior to visiting Allriandre Durkel. All in all, if you convince the target that they want to do what you say, through Hemalurgic control, emotional Allomancy, drinking them into a stupor or another method, then yes, it seems that they would still be able to use Invested abilities. Forcing someone in this way may have consequences within the Cosmere not seen IRL, like cracking of the soul, but it would vary on method. 3
DoctaDajman Posted March 15, 2025 Author Posted March 15, 2025 Looks like going to dark route of drugging people for their breath is a legit possibility.... not that anyone would ever do that right? Probably if it got out that you were doing it the punishment would be quite severe.
Duxredux he/him Posted March 15, 2025 Posted March 15, 2025 (edited) 6 hours ago, DoctaDajman said: Looks like going to dark route of drugging people for their breath is a legit possibility.... not that anyone would ever do that right? Probably if it got out that you were doing it the punishment would be quite severe. Depends on who is doing it unfortunately. Hallendren officials were torturing Vahr while he was stripped and suspended from the ceiling. Chemical levers probably would have been applied had they been available. We know that to an extent they can still work as Lemex held enough Breath to resist most diseases and Denth was still able to poison him. Nalthian rights might end up with specific exceptions for highly dangerous and Invested beings. Pyramid schemes are way more dangerous when Breath is involved. No idea how it will shake out, IRL doesn't have anything quite like Breath. Edited March 15, 2025 by Duxredux
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