Hemalurgic Compounding?

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

Can you compound/use allomantic hemalurgic spikes? I've seen it tossed around a bit, but can you actually do it? And what are its effects? I know you need some identity shenanigans but what would it do?

[Trusk'our he/him]

11 minutes ago, CoderDrag0n8 said:

Can you compound/use allomantic hemalurgic spikes? I've seen it tossed around a bit, but can you actually do it? And what are its effects? I know you need some identity shenanigans but what would it do?

Do you mean to ask if you can Allomantically burn a Hemalurgically Invested metal?

If so, yes, it's possible, but as you guessed Identity contamination interferes under normal circumstances (but it's been proposed that Steel Inquisitors could, as they can sidestep Identity contamination- though the process would be excruciating). 

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/404-american-fork-high-school-signing/#e13536

Questioner (paraphrased)

Would you be able to get any kind of additional power from burning a Hemalurgic spike?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

There would be power there, but you wouldn’t be able to access it. Like burning someone else’s metalmind.

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/200-tweettheauthor-2009/#e4413

Czanos

Would anything interesting happen if an Allomancer Burned a Hemalurgic spike, or a Feruchemist Tapped one?

Brandon Sanderson

Er, well, it’s possible. But you’d have to be burning a Hemalurgic spike that killed you and took your power…

Just like you can’t gain anything by burning a metalmind unless you infused it yourself.

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/294-17th-shard-interview/#e10124

17th Shard

Can you burn the spikes? Like, Allomantically? For example, could they burn the steel in their head spikes?

Brandon Sanderson

I considered that and I eventually decided that they could, but it would be an excruciating process that would probably knock them unconscious simply by doing it.

17th Shard

Would they be able to tap?

Brandon Sanderson

Would they tap them? They can use them as metalminds, yes.

What's more, we don't actually know what exactly it would do beyond that it would somehow splice the Hemalurgic metal's Spiritweb and the Allomancer's Spiritweb in some way. This won't grant access to stolen powers though. 

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/210-torcom-qa-with-brandon-sanderson/#e4616

Maru Nui

What happens when you burn a Hemalurgic spike?

Brandon Sanderson

Burning a Hemalurgic spike would have the effect of splicing your spiritual DNA to that of the person's that is in the spike, which would have some very strange consequences.

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/76-shadows-of-self-chicago-signing/#e6295

Questioner

If you burn a Hemalurgic spike, would it graft the piece of stolen soul onto your soul?

Brandon Sanderson

No, but it would have... There are some interesting effects there.

You may also, like with Compounding, be able to choose the Allomantic effect of a burned spike over the new effect. 

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/361-skyward-pre-release-ama/#e11493

RoboChrist

If you have a Hemalurgic spike made of atium, that grants atium Allomancy, could you use the spike itself as a source of atium to burn?

Brandon Sanderson

Briefly. 

If I were to guess what new effect burning a spike would do, I'd guess there would be residual aftershocks of the stolen Spiritweb, like how Koloss-blooded have a small portion of their parents' Iron spike strength. Or, perhaps you can overwrite your physical appearance or something. 

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

2 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Do you mean to ask if you can Allomantically burn a Hemalurgically Invested metal?

If so, yes, it's possible, but as you guessed Identity contamination interferes under normal circumstances (but it's been proposed that Steel Inquisitors could, as they can sidestep Identity contamination- though the process would be excruciating). 

  Reveal hidden contents

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/404-american-fork-high-school-signing/#e13536

Questioner (paraphrased)

Would you be able to get any kind of additional power from burning a Hemalurgic spike?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

There would be power there, but you wouldn’t be able to access it. Like burning someone else’s metalmind.

  Reveal hidden contents

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/200-tweettheauthor-2009/#e4413

Czanos

Would anything interesting happen if an Allomancer Burned a Hemalurgic spike, or a Feruchemist Tapped one?

Brandon Sanderson

Er, well, it’s possible. But you’d have to be burning a Hemalurgic spike that killed you and took your power…

Just like you can’t gain anything by burning a metalmind unless you infused it yourself.

  Reveal hidden contents

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/294-17th-shard-interview/#e10124

17th Shard

Can you burn the spikes? Like, Allomantically? For example, could they burn the steel in their head spikes?

Brandon Sanderson

I considered that and I eventually decided that they could, but it would be an excruciating process that would probably knock them unconscious simply by doing it.

17th Shard

Would they be able to tap?

Brandon Sanderson

Would they tap them? They can use them as metalminds, yes.

What's more, we don't actually know what exactly it would do beyond that it would somehow splice the Hemalurgic metal's Spiritweb and the Allomancer's Spiritweb in some way. This won't grant access to stolen powers though. 

  Reveal hidden contents

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/210-torcom-qa-with-brandon-sanderson/#e4616

Maru Nui

What happens when you burn a Hemalurgic spike?

Brandon Sanderson

Burning a Hemalurgic spike would have the effect of splicing your spiritual DNA to that of the person's that is in the spike, which would have some very strange consequences.

  Reveal hidden contents

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/76-shadows-of-self-chicago-signing/#e6295

Questioner

If you burn a Hemalurgic spike, would it graft the piece of stolen soul onto your soul?

Brandon Sanderson

No, but it would have... There are some interesting effects there.

You may also, like with Compounding, be able to choose the Allomantic effect of a burned spike over the new effect. 

  Reveal hidden contents

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/361-skyward-pre-release-ama/#e11493

RoboChrist

If you have a Hemalurgic spike made of atium, that grants atium Allomancy, could you use the spike itself as a source of atium to burn?

Brandon Sanderson

Briefly. 

If I were to guess what new effect burning a spike would do, I'd guess there would be residual aftershocks of the stolen Spiritweb, like how Koloss-blooded have a small portion of their parents' Iron spike strength. Or, perhaps you can overwrite your physical appearance or something. 

Rusting hell, I was just about to look up the Arcanum for the WOBs, next thing I know you've just done it all.

You must have spiked a Steelrunner or something because geez luieeze man.

 

Anyhow, I have a feeling that this whole concept will be a big part of Era 3 and was foreshadowed in Lost Metal.

Marsh and the Arcanum talked about Identity Contamination and how it limits modern Hemalurgists, while the Set were trying to make Spikes out of normal people but couldn't get them to work right. Probably because each of those Nicrosil Spikes was Keyed to 20-30 different Identities.

[Trusk'our he/him]

37 minutes ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

Rusting hell, I was just about to look up the Arcanum for the WOBs, next thing I know you've just done it all.

You must have spiked a Steelrunner or something because geez luieeze man.

What can I say? I am a Hemalurgy enthusiast, after all.

37 minutes ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

Marsh and the Arcanum talked about Identity Contamination and how it limits modern Hemalurgists, while the Set were trying to make Spikes out of normal people but couldn't get them to work right. Probably because each of those Nicrosil Spikes was Keyed to 20-30 different Identities.

Given the several, relatively easy avenues proposed to blank Identity, I'm not convinced that this will be the only issue. 

While Snapping doesn't change one's chances of passing down their Allomantic potential, it does allow them to use that power for themselves. 

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/97-idaho-falls-signing/#e2733

PrncRny (paraphrased)

Is an Snapped Allomancer more likely to pass on the Allomantic ability than an UnSnapped one?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Not necessarily.

PrncRny (paraphrased)

I asked if it was pure genetics, then.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

He initially said yes, then appended that with "not just genetics. there's a Spiritual aspect to it as well."

I think, then, that if sub-Allomantic powers are stolen from non-Metalborn you might still miss a component to use them. Perhaps Snapping activates the Investiture by bonding Preservation?

Edited January 25, 2025 by Trusk'our

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

9 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

What can I say? I am a Hemalurgy enthusiast, after all.

True dat.

9 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

Given the several, relatively easy avenues proposed to blank Identity, I'm not convinced that this will be the only issue. 

While Snapping doesn't change one's chances of passing down their Allomantic potential, it does allow them to use that power for themselves. 

  Reveal hidden contents

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/97-idaho-falls-signing/#e2733

PrncRny (paraphrased)

Is an Snapped Allomancer more likely to pass on the Allomantic ability than an UnSnapped one?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Not necessarily.

PrncRny (paraphrased)

I asked if it was pure genetics, then.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

He initially said yes, then appended that with "not just genetics. there's a Spiritual aspect to it as well."

I think, then, that if sub-Allomantic powers are stolen from non-Metalborn you might still miss a component to use them. Perhaps Snapping activates the Investiture by bonding Preservation?

I personally think that the main reason why these Nicrosil Spikes aren't working is because of Identity, because I think Identity is an important factor in determining someone's type of Allomancy.

So, if every person that was Spiked had their Identity's telling the Investiture in the Spike "Be a Lurcher/Pewterarm/Pulser/Augur/etc" then the Investiture tries to do it all and fails because of a lack of power. I hypothesis that the reason why they had any success at all was because more of the Identitys matched the correct power, like say 10 or so Donor's Identity's were telling the Spike "Be a Coinshot" and that made it manifest for a brief time before the other 20 random Identity's ruined it.

The Mists could make Allomancers out of people with low Allomantic potential (20% out of a Misting's 50% for instance), by both causing trauma and slightly raising their Allomantic potential, allowing them to become Allomancers. What the Nicrosil Spikes do, I feel is similar to what the Mists once did, just in a more artificial way.

So if one did find a way to Blank all of these people's Identity's (Which I feel is probably not as easy as you make it sound, we're talking about stabbing 20+ people for a piece of their soul, and we don't know a confirmed way to force someone's Identity to be Blanked yet), then the Unkeyed Nicrosil Spike would be able to grant a permanent Allomantic power to someone, but it would be random due to every person having a differing Identity and each recipient would just become a random Misting.

Of course, this idea depends on it being Identity that determines the type of Allomancer a person is born as, because if not then this is a load of bunk.