Elend's Misleading Allomantic Strength

[Trusk'our he/him]

When thinking on Elend's Allomancy, I considered something: is Elend actually a good example of what an original Lerasium-strength Mistborn would be, since he had higher Allomantic potential than people pre-Ascension?

He wasn't an actual Allomancer, but he was still a descendant of one of the first Mistborn, which should affect his total level of Investiture.

I think this suggests Elend's Allomancy would actually be stronger than the original Mistborn, though perhaps not by a large margin. Enough to point out to Mistborn geeks like myself though 

Edited January 20, 2025 by Trusk'our

[Treamayne]

2 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

He wasn't an actual Allomancer, but he was still a descendant of one of the first Mistborn, which should affect his total level of Investiture.

Unlikely in my mind.

• Original bead recipients were Scadrians without enough potential to be Snapped by the Mists
• Elend was a Scadrian without enough potential to be Snapped as a child. 

Seems like both started relatively the same, since all Scadrians have some Preservation (and therefore Allomantic potential). 

Annotations to HoA Ch 49

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

The Sliding Scale of Allomantic Potential

Noblemen, despite what Spook says in this chapter, are not immune to the mistsickness. The rumor Spook is referencing does have merit, however. You see, since the mists are Snapping people and awakening the Allomantic potential within them, it will affect far fewer noblemen than skaa. Why? Because a lot of the noblemen have already Snapped. They were beaten as children to bring out the powers.

However, that won't stop all of them from being affected by the mistsickness, because the mistsickness is also awakening Allomantic potential that would otherwise be too subtle to be brought out. Pretend there's a sliding scale of Allomantic potential. 100% means you're an Allomancer—in this series, only two people have hit 100%—Vin and Elend. Buried within a lot of people, however, is enough of a touch of Preservation's power to hit, say, 50% on the relative scale of Allomantic power. These people, when beaten and made to pass through something traumatic, awaken to their Allomantic abilities.

There are a lot of people out there, however, with something more like 20% to 30%. These are the people the mists are Snapping—since the mists are, themselves, partially the power of Preservation, they can touch people and increase their Allomantic potential slightly and then bring it to the forefront.

The Hero of Ages Annotations (Dec. 29, 2009)

YMMV

[Trusk'our he/him]

5 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Unlikely in my mind.

• Original bead recipients were Scadrians without enough potential to be Snapped by the Mists
• Elend was a Scadrian without enough potential to be Snapped as a child. 

Seems like both started relatively the same, since all Scadrians have some Preservation (and therefore Allomantic potential). 

Annotations to HoA Ch 49

  Reveal hidden contents

Brandon Sanderson

The Sliding Scale of Allomantic Potential

Noblemen, despite what Spook says in this chapter, are not immune to the mistsickness. The rumor Spook is referencing does have merit, however. You see, since the mists are Snapping people and awakening the Allomantic potential within them, it will affect far fewer noblemen than skaa. Why? Because a lot of the noblemen have already Snapped. They were beaten as children to bring out the powers.

However, that won't stop all of them from being affected by the mistsickness, because the mistsickness is also awakening Allomantic potential that would otherwise be too subtle to be brought out. Pretend there's a sliding scale of Allomantic potential. 100% means you're an Allomancer—in this series, only two people have hit 100%—Vin and Elend. Buried within a lot of people, however, is enough of a touch of Preservation's power to hit, say, 50% on the relative scale of Allomantic power. These people, when beaten and made to pass through something traumatic, awaken to their Allomantic abilities.

There are a lot of people out there, however, with something more like 20% to 30%. These are the people the mists are Snapping—since the mists are, themselves, partially the power of Preservation, they can touch people and increase their Allomantic potential slightly and then bring it to the forefront.

The Hero of Ages Annotations (Dec. 29, 2009)

YMMV

True, he hadn't Snapped, which means his Allomantic power must have been lower than a Misting's.

However, we know that breeding between Skaa and Noble bloodlines was enough to almost entirely erase other genetic differences (like height and intelligence) over time and that while Allomantic potential does significantly reduce over generations, it will eventually find an equilibrium (I think it might be comparable to how Hemalurgic spikes will lose potency over time, but won't ever fully return to their original level of Investiture). 

Spoiler

https://coppermind.net/wiki/The_Hero_of_Ages/Epigraphs#Chapter_25

The Balance. Is it real?

We've almost forgotten this little bit of lore. Skaa used to talk about it, before the Collapse. Philosophers discussed it a great deal in the third and fourth centuries, but by Kelsier's time, it was mostly a forgotten topic.

But it was real. There was a physiological difference between skaa and nobility. When the Lord Ruler altered mankind to make them more capable of dealing with ash, he changed other things as well. Some groups of people—the noblemen—were created to be less fertile, but taller, stronger, and more intelligent. Others—the skaa—were made to be shorter, hardier, and to have many children.

The changes were slight, however, and after a thousand years of interbreeding, the differences had largely been erased.

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/360-legion-release-party/#e10873

Questioner

In Mistborn, as the Eras are going on, the powers get diluted because of people passing down the bloodlines. Once we reach the Third and Fourth Era, the powers are going to be--won't they be a lot weaker, and not very useful?

Brandon Sanderson

They will become weaker, but there's a maximum level of dilution... There's a maximum level that you can reach pretty quickly, if you're only counting the northern continent. Because of the limited number of progenitors.

So, Era 3 we're not going to have a problem. And they're also trying to figure out ways around this.

I think we can also reasonably conclude from the Set needing a varying number of victims to Invest non-Metalborn spikes (between 20 and 30) that non-Snapped Scadrians still have notably varying levels of Investiture. 

With these in mind, I would maintain that Elend would have higher levels of Investiture than pre-Ascension people due to there still being some residual power from his line. 

Actually, if I recall, Vin's father Tevidain Tekiel was not an Allomancer, but was still a noble. This was enough to give Vin the chance to be Mistborn. 

I wonder then, even if Elend's personal Allomancy was comparable to the original Mistborn (or as I'm guessing, marginally stronger), would his genetic potential for Allomancy be much stronger due to his innate potential being combined with his Lerasium?

Edited January 21, 2025 by Trusk'our

[Duxredux he/him]

I'd say insufficient data. Wax and Wayne became very weak Mistborn by burning tiny samples of Lerasium, far weaker than any naturally born Mistborn we've seen. The amount of Lerasium burned seems relevant. According to @Treamayne's WoB, only Vin and Elend hit "100%" Allomantic potential, though who knows what that means when both were at times directly fueled by the power of Preservation. Taken at face value, that means Kelsier, Kar, Zane, and even TLR as full Mistborn were not at 100% potential. We have a Sliver that utilized the Well of Ascension to directly make himself Mistborn who didn't make the cut based on that WoB.

Allomantic potential is mutable and can grow with infusions of Preservation's power it seems. Elend directly after eating the bead was probably not 100%. Then again, there isn't much to say that all the Lerasium beads found anciently were equally sized or if the one Elend ate had degraded over a millenia (or grown).

Again, I'd say insufficient data. By the end, yes, Elend was likely stronger than the ancient Mistborn, but I'm not sure about after newly gaining his powers. 

[Treamayne]

38 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Actually, if I recall, Vin's father Tevidain Tekiel was not an Allomancer, but was still a noble. This was enough to give Vin the chance to be Mistborn. 

I wonder then, even if Elend's personal Allomancy was comparable to the original Mistborn (or as I'm guessing, marginally stronger), would his genetic potential for Allomancy be much stronger due to his innate potential being combined with his Lerasium?

8 minutes ago, Duxredux said:

Again, I'd say insufficient data. By the end, yes, Elend was likely stronger than the ancient Mistborn, but I'm not sure about after newly gaining his powers. 

Another thought I had - even if Elend had some residual potential, as sub-misting (unable to be snapped) that potential would only have been in one metal. So, post-bead if he had greater than normal potential then - like Vin's Earring giving her better-than-normal Bronze - that potential would only have been in that one metal (misting potential + Mistborn-by-bead) until he burned Mists.

If this is the case, then I would guess it was either Soothing or Rioting by the way he controls Koloss.

 

[Trusk'our he/him]

On 1/20/2025 at 10:05 PM, Duxredux said:

I'd say insufficient data. Wax and Wayne became very weak Mistborn by burning tiny samples of Lerasium, far weaker than any naturally born Mistborn we've seen. The amount of Lerasium burned seems relevant.

Actually, do we know they were particularly weak?

The amount of Lerasium consumed is directly proportional to the strength of Investiture it, but we don't know the level of Investiture that was actually given to Wax and Wayne by Lerasium (no examples without duralumin or trace metals from what I remember), nor the size of Elend's original Lerasium bead, I believe. 

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/6-bands-of-mourning-release-party/#e341

Questioner

The size of the metal, does it matter to transfer Allomancy or can it be really really tiny or really really big?

Brandon Sanderson

For Allomancy? Or what, a bead of lerasium? Is that what you're talking about?

Questioner

Yeah, when you're transferring the powers, like to make someone a Mistborn...

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah it has to be-- The size of it is going to influence how strong a Mistborn you are.

Questioner

It couldn't be a sliver.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah-- Well it could, you'd just be really weak as a Mistborn.

I think it's possible it's a Spook situation, where their new level of Allomancy would be comparable to or perhaps slightly stronger than the rest of the population for simplicity's sake. But this is admittedly just conjecture, given my lack of evidence. 

On 1/20/2025 at 10:05 PM, Duxredux said:

According to @Treamayne's WoB, only Vin and Elend hit "100%" Allomantic potential, though who knows what that means when both were at times directly fueled by the power of Preservation. Taken at face value, that means Kelsier, Kar, Zane, and even TLR as full Mistborn were not at 100% potential. We have a Sliver that utilized the Well of Ascension to directly make himself Mistborn who didn't make the cut based on that WoB.

Allomantic potential is mutable and can grow with infusions of Preservation's power it seems. Elend directly after eating the bead was probably not 100%. Then again, there isn't much to say that all the Lerasium beads found anciently were equally sized or if the one Elend ate had degraded over a millenia (or grown).

I think the WoB is primarily trying to point out the need for Snapping rather than how much of a person's power is unlocked when they do Snap.

People who have 20-30% can't Snap without external intervention, though even if they do they'll still be weaker than those at 50%, who have enough Investiture to Snap and gain access to their power through standard trauma. People at 100%, I think, are just those who didn't need to Snap later on (Elend automatically bonding Preservation through Lerasium and Vin Snapping at birth).

It's weird that Rashek isn't mentioned as being at 100%, but I suspect Brandon either forgot or is specifically talking about viewpoint characters. 

On 1/20/2025 at 10:17 PM, Treamayne said:

Another thought I had - even if Elend had some residual potential, as sub-misting (unable to be snapped) that potential would only have been in one metal. So, post-bead if he had greater than normal potential then - like Vin's Earring giving her better-than-normal Bronze - that potential would only have been in that one metal (misting potential + Mistborn-by-bead) until he burned Mists.

If this is the case, then I would guess it was either Soothing or Rioting by the way he controls Koloss.

Interesting. 

I think that idea has merit, considering that all unSnapped Allomancers have predestined powers.

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/108-idaho-falls-signing-2014/#e1351

PrncRny (paraphrased)

How and when is the type of Misting you become determined? Can you tell what type of Misting you are before you Snap?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

It's determined at birth. The cosmere by combining 3 aspects of self. Your physical self, mental self, and spiritual self. The spiritual self is tied to the Investiture of the world that you come from. When an Allomancer snaps, a piece of their soul is broken and some of that power leaks into them, giving them their abilities.

 

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, Trusk'our said:

It's weird that Rashek isn't mentioned as being at 100%, but I suspect Brandon either forgot or is specifically talking about viewpoint characters. 

I think he was specifically talking about people alive during the end of HoA, since that comes from the Annotations to HoA (and all of the other Mistborn are dead by the time Elend's allowed to enter Fadrex and figures out the Mists were snapping people). 

Edited January 22, 2025 by Treamayne
SPAG