Harmony and Retribution Intent Discrepancy

[Afrofrycook]

Something I've realized recently is that these two shards from combined shards don't follow the same logic regarding the new Intent. Let's break down each.

Harmony is the combination of Ruin and Preservation. One destroys and the other preserves. When they combined, they became Harmony. What does Harmony describe exactly? It describes how different elements in a system relate to each other. In other words, it's describing the relationship between two or more things. 

Retribution is a combination of Honor and Odium. Unlike Harmony, this new intent is very specific to the component intents. There is Odium(hatred) for those who lack Honor. This describes not a relationship, but the specifics of the shards themselves. It's a noun instead of a verb.

One shard describes the relationship between different shards while the other forms a new intent that covers both. This is completely different from each other.

If we wanted to create a new Intent that covered both Preservation and Ruin in the same way Honor and Odium were combined, we'd look for a word involving both. Something that involves destroying some, but leaving others. The word that closely aligns to this (and sounds decent) would be Purification. The process of purifying means parts are removed/destroyed to keep the rest safe.

But I think the reason this didn't happen is because Brandon thought of the combination of shards differently than he does today. He was very focused on their opposition to each other, hence why Sazed has difficulty doing anything. But if Harmony was the actual intent of the shard, Sazed should have no problem acting as long as what he's doing promotes harmony in a system.

Edited December 27, 2024 by Afrofrycook

[Sophrosyne he/him]

 

Welcome to the shard, if you're sticking around, I highly recommend an intro post, tell us what books you've read and how you feel about the (lowly) Windrunners~

1 hour ago, Afrofrycook said:

Harmony is the combination of Ruin and Preservation. One destroys and the other preserves. When they combined, they became Harmony. What does Harmony describe exactly? It describes how different elements in a system relate to each other. In other words, it's describing the relationship between two or more things. 

Soo, Maybe? I see your point but I raise you this.

Spoiler

Harmony 

noun

1. An orderly or pleasing combination of elements in a whole.
2. A relationship in which various components exist together without destroying one another.
3. A relationship characterized by a lack of conflict or by agreement, as of opinion or interest.

I'm pretty sure in Harmony, the shard's, case it refers to definition 2. Thus Harmony‘s intent covers all forms of non-destructive coexistence. This DOES fact exclude Ruin from the equation but that's kind of the point with the Harmony/Discord thing. Sazed is channeling them in such a way that he can prevent Ruin but that also inhibits his own actions. 

I think this may be a case in which the vessel's interpretation of a shard matters so maybe someone else holding Retribution would instead have IDK Grievance? I think the reason Harmony feels weird, because it DOES feel weird, is that
1. The word harmony is being used in a very different way than is expected. 
2. The combination of Preservation & Ruin is naturally Discord in the "Tension or strife resulting from a lack of agreement; dissension." sense.

 

Man, I hope that made since I got interrupted a lot.

PS I like the bolding of a Shard's name I'll be using that from now on me thinks~

[Asininity]

Sazed took up two opposing forces. He could either make them function through Discord - letting them struggle against each other and acting based on whichever force prevails at any given time - or through Harmony, maintaining a constant state of equilibrium where they balance each other out, though this severely limits his ability to act decisively.

Taravangian, on the other hand, claimed Shards that can work together. Honor would never tolerate the breaking of a given word, while Odium despises inaction. Reconciling these two is far easier than balancing Preservation’s inability to destroy with Ruin’s inability to save. It may also help that Odium is currently the dominant force, since splinters of Honor (Heralds and spren) remain unclaimed.

Shard names are not perfect reflections of their true Intent. These Intents are vast and infinite, shaped by the Vessel that holds them.

[Arceoxys he/him]

I have a theory about Harmony, and others do as well, that part of the problem for Harmony (which might also become a problem for Retribution) is the Intent behind the thought of it.

 

In MB Era 2, Harmony is never thought of as 1 thing, but 2 things come together. Harmony isn't Harmony, Harmony is Ruin and Preservation, if that makes sense. And we've seen a lot how Intent matters, as well as cognition. If everyone, including the person holding those 2 shards, thinks of them as separate but together, that might affect things. In fact, there's an argument to be made that Sazed shouldnt be holding 2 shards, but 1, formerly 2. 

Another part of this theory is the idea that since Dawnshards were used to shatter Ado, perhaps they are required to fully merge shards (and thus Sazed can't be holding just 1 because they will always be separate without Dawnshard assistance, though perhaps Intent/Cognition would help this regardless)

All this being said, Retribution might fall under similar problems with his 2 shards coming into conflict about how to act regarding situations where each would prefer different actions being taken. As for differences in description, this could also be caused by Intent. For instance, if Dalinar!Honor took Odium, would it be Retribution? Did the pervasiveness of "Divine God's Rage" influence how the coming together of these 2 shards would be? Does the Intent/Cognition of the Vessel matter? Etc.