Favorite Tropes

[TwinStorm He/Him]

Favorite tropes in fiction in general!

kinda inspired by Haly talking about this on her writing thread.

I’ll start:

sympathetic villains

characters driven by vengeance

rediscovering magic

DRAGONS (done right)

[Bird Furious she/her/un/important]

4 minutes ago, Ookla the Irreplaceable said:

Favorite tropes in fiction in general!

kinda inspired by Haly talking about this on her writing thread.

I’ll start:

sympathetic villains

characters driven by vengeance

rediscovering magic

DRAGONS (done right)

Hehehe. 

Imma be yoinking from this to compile my list, dudes. Be warned. 

Enemies who have to work together and become friends— forgetting that they won’t be able to work together forever (bonus points for a well written romance!) 

Cocky, reliable, infallible character suddenly being brought down to everyone else’s level

Funny or heartwarming (meaningful) subversion of expectations, where it adds something to the overall story instead of just being shock value (ikikik it doesn’t quite fit here but DEAL WITH IT I HATE BAD SUBVERSION OF EXPECTATIONS)

[TwinStorm He/Him]

heist stories

secret organizations

absolute monsters of a character (no morality “some people just want to watch the world burn”)

heroes breaking their rules

descent into darkness and redemption

[Through the Living Shadow he/him]

Taking something overdone and making it new and interesting. (DRAGONS! Also Salamanders, but that one was dark)

Break a magic system.

(@Dragonheir)

Kintlen and villains like him, whose main source of power is their ability to manipulate peoples politically.

Fantasy.

Sci-fi.

Uuuuuuhhhhhhh

yea.

[Bird Furious she/her/un/important]

1 hour ago, Ookla the Irreplaceable said:

heist stories

secret organizations

absolute monsters of a character (no morality “some people just want to watch the world burn”)

heroes breaking their rules

descent into darkness and redemption

 

43 minutes ago, SpiritOfWrath said:

Taking something overdone and making it new and interesting. (DRAGONS! Also Salamanders, but that one was dark)

Break a magic system.

(@Dragonheir)

Kintlen and villains like him, whose main source of power is their ability to manipulate peoples politically.

Fantasy.

Sci-fi.

Uuuuuuhhhhhhh

yea.

*cough* 

Spoiler

Ik it’s not my thread but 

Spoiler

Your responses have been recorded 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

[Through the Living Heir he/him]

Using magic or technology in unconventional ways. Lateral thinking in general. 
Anti-villains, like Tarvangian and whoever the guy from the later Expanse books was. 
When things actually make sense. 
When things didn’t make sense, but a twist makes it all fall into place. 
Lots of viewpoints with overlapping storylines. 

Now that I think about it, I’m basically just describing Sanderson books. Which makes sense, I suppose. 

[Through the Living Shadow he/him]

28 minutes ago, Halcyon The Only said:

 

*cough* 

  Reveal hidden contents

Ik it’s not my thread but 

  Hide contents

Your responses have been recorded 

  Hide contents

 

 

 

 

Spoiler

I think I also put em there

 

[Through The Living Glass She/They]

Trust issues.

. . .

That's all.

[Mattel]

I have a weird fascination with stories that involve a main character who is a "good guy" who then, either through their own desire, or being forced to, become a "bad guy" in the story. 

[Treamayne]

Antagonists getting Hoist By Their Own Petard

A well done Bavarian Fire Drill (like Kaladin on the Tower)

The Anti-Hero Team with well-done Heel-Face Turns

Most of the various Gambits, when well incorporated (like Leras' combination  Batman-Thanatos Gambit)

There are many more, so I may add some later (don't want to hog too many options).

[Through the Living Shadow he/him]

1 minute ago, Treamayne said:

Antagonists getting Hoist By Their Own Petard

A well done Bavarian Fire Drill (like Kaladin on the Tower)

The Anti-Hero Team with well-done Heel-Face Turns

Most of the various Gambits, when well incorporated (like Leras' combination  Batman-Thanatos Gambit)

There are many more, so I may add some later (don't want to hog too many options).

Mmmhhmmmm I have Kintlen doing a slight variation on the second one.

I like it

Essentially, the people want to help a certain cause, and Kintlen just pretends to, forging documents that say he has increased his efforts in this. He hasn’t increased it, but he, in the forgery, decreased what he had done before significantly.

Rant over.

I like Kintlen.

[Bird Furious she/her/un/important]

*furiously takes notes* 

(Side note/edit:)

I am now taking last minute trope/archetype submissions for my crowd pleaser Frankenstein writing project mcthing that we’re gonna valiantly attempt to get off the ground. (Ik y’all might not care but *cough*) Imma try and get it out tomorrow. 

Edited December 22, 2024 by Halcyon The Only

[Mags she/they]

On 12/21/2024 at 12:42 PM, Through The Living Glass said:

Trust issues.

. . .

That's all.

*squints* is that . . . why you like June so much . . ?

Absolutely no one asked for my in-depth opinion but I feel like I really like the idea of enemies to lovers, but in practice it's fumbled almost every time 

Spoiler

--For one, I consider knowing that the enemies are going to get together before hand a crucial spoiler, I should not know, this is the sort of romance that hits right when it's a pleasant surprise. I don't really want to know the end of a characters arc in general, and enemies to lovers is usually so integrated with character arcs that it spoils everything. That said, this is my very subjective opinion, and mostly applies to when romance isn't the focus of the story. If you're reading a romance book, then it's not necessary a spoiler that the two MC's end up together.

--Secondly, and more objectively, I feel like so often people care about the added tension and drama enemies to lovers creates and that's . . . it. To me, enemies to lovers should be the idea of two people falling in love despite different ideology's or positions in society. It's about crossing unnecessary boundaries and trying to understand someone who is different to you, someone who is 'other.' In some cases, a redemption is also necessary and wonderful, from one or both of the people involved. It's about learning to love people, and then learning to love yourself. This is such a deep and interesting topic to touch on, and a love story is a perfect vessel. BUTTT all these so called enemies to lovers books abandon thematic depth and interesting discussion for shallow drama. LIKE BRO IT'S RIGHT THERE, IS A WELL-WRITTEN STORY TOO MUCH TO ASK FOR? *deep breath* apparently it is. 

Sorry but enemies to lovers is not two people who hate each others guts kissing randomly during a sword fight, change my mind.

uh anyway

I feel like most if not all tropes can be done well if the execution is good, a trope is just a stock scenario, what you do with it is what makes me like it or not.

Edited December 22, 2024 by Magi

[Bird Furious she/her/un/important]

4 minutes ago, Magi said:

*squints* is that . . . why you like June so much . . ?

Absolutely no one asked for my in-depth opinion but I feel like I really like the idea of enemies to lovers, but in practice it's fumbled almost every time 

  Reveal hidden contents

--For one, I consider knowing that the enemies are going to get together before hand a crucial spoiler, I should not know, this is the sort of romance that hits right when it's a pleasant surprise. I don't really want to know the end of a characters arc in general, and enemies to lovers is usually so integrated with character arcs that it spoils everything. That said, this is my very subjective opinion, and mostly applies to when romance isn't the focus of the story. If you're reading a romance book, then it's not necessary a spoiler that the two MC's end up together.

--Secondly, and more objectively, I feel like so often people care about the added tension and drama enemies to lovers creates and that's . . . it. To me, enemies to lovers should be the idea of two people falling in love despite different ideology's or positions in society. It's about crossing unnecessary boundaries and trying to understand someone who is different to you, someone who is 'other.' In some cases, a redemption is also necessary and wonderful, from one or both of the people involved. It's about learning to love people, and then learning to love yourself. This is such a deep and interesting topic to touch on, and a love story is a perfect vessel. BUTTT all these so called enemies to lovers books abandon thematic depth and interesting discussion for shallow drama. LIKE BRO IT'S RIGHT THERE, IS A WELL-WRITTEN STORY TOO MUCH TO ASK FOR? *deep breath* apparently it is. Sorry but enemies to lovers is not two people who hate each others guts kissing randomly during sword fight, fight me.

 

uh anyway

I feel like most if not all tropes can be done well if the execution is good, a trope is just a stock scenario, what you do with it is what makes me like it or not.

Magi, I freaking love you for how right you are right now. 

[Mags she/they]

5 minutes ago, Halcyon The Only said:

Magi, I freaking love you for how right you are right now. 

awww thanks 

I'm actually glad I'm not the only one who feels this way, because I've been trying to write what is technically an enemies-to-lovers subplot in one of my larger projects right now, and I'm doing everything in my power to avoid the pitfalls that annoy me so much.

Edited December 22, 2024 by Magi

[Bird Furious she/her/un/important]

Ok dudes here's the survey for the thing I was doing that @Ookla the Irreplaceable mentioned in the main post

Respond to as much or as little as you want--- no pressure... I don't wanna be annoying.............. 

Characters

Sec. 1 (I’ll be picking 4-6 to incorporate, so pick up to 6, but just one is ok :D)

Spoiler

1. Chosen One  

2. Reluctant Hero

3. Mentor

4. Unlikely Ally

5. Antihero

6. Antivillain 

7. Damsel in Distress

8. Heir to the Throne

9. Best of the Best 

10. Underdog

11. The Rebel

 

Sec. 2. (again, I’ll be picking 4-6, vote for as few as you like :D) 

Spoiler

1. Villain Protagonist

2. Protagonist who, instead of being overly self-sacrificial, is incredibly selfish and gives up nothing

3. Character w/ trust issues 

4. Character’s caginess leads to problems 

5. Character has demons from the past (whether literal or metaphorical remains to be seen)

6. Villain trusted by the people 

7. Powerful, invulnerable character who is brought down to a human level 

8. Character who pushes away people who care about them because “I’m too dangerous for you to be around”

9. Justified, sympathetic villain

10. Monster character who wants to see the world burn just for fun or smth 

11. Hero who follows strict rules but goes on to break those rules 

12. Character who has survivor’s guilt 

13. Machiavellian character (very calculating and amoral, results oriented)

14. Character with a hidden talent or passion that comes to light in the narrative and completely changes how the other characters see them 

15. Big scary muscly bad past character is a good person, but the sweet, small, harmless character is super evil 

 

Plot

Sec. 1. (Same as before, we’ll see how it works in practice)

Spoiler

1. Third act betrayal

2. Protag mentored by the villain

3. The villain and the protagonist work against a greater threat, forgetting they’re enemies in the process 

4. Villain’s plan or invention is their downfall 

5. Bavarian fire drill (character takes charge by acting like they’re in charge)

6. Resurrection gambit (character dies on purpose, hoping someone will bring them back)

7. Trust issues cause big problems 

8. Lovers to enemies

9. Enemies to lovers

10. Stockholm syndrome

11. Redemption arc 

12. Somebody gets convenient memory loss

 

Sec. 2. (pick one or add your own idk at this point)

Spoiler

1. Heist story

2. Rediscovering magic

3. Quest story 

4. Personal hero’s journey 

 

Setting/ Worldbuilding

Sec. 1 ( up to 6)

Spoiler

1. Set during war

2. Lawless dystopian past 

3. Small town with secrets 

4. Isolated island 

5. Dystopian future 

6. Magic hidden world

7. Decaying post- apocalypse

8. Mysterious ancient city

9. High school (i swear if you vote for this one i will bonk you on the head and if this one wins I will unleash the great demons)

10. Haunted house 

11. Sprawling metropolis 

12. Secret organization 

13. Dragon people 

14 Dragons 

15. Medieval/ less advanced society built in the ruins of an advanced civilization 

 

Sec. 2. (pick one or add ur own)

Spoiler

1. Fantasy

2. Sci- fi 

3. Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

4. Urban fantasy 

5. Fever dream 

 

Million-dollar questions 

Spoiler

1. Does it end well or badly? 

2. Romance or no?

3. Does the villain or protagonist win? 

4. Earth or otherwise?

Thanks for taking this survey thingy  

[Through the Living Shadow he/him]

19 minutes ago, Halcyon The Only said:

Ok dudes here's the survey for the thing I was doing that @Ookla the Irreplaceable mentioned in the main post

Respond to as much or as little as you want--- no pressure... I don't wanna be annoying.............. 

Characters

Sec. 1 (I’ll be picking 4-6 to incorporate, so pick up to 6, but just one is ok :D)

  Reveal hidden contents

1. Chosen One  

2. Reluctant Hero

3. Mentor

4. Unlikely Ally

5. Antihero

6. Antivillain 

7. Damsel in Distress

8. Heir to the Throne

9. Best of the Best 

10. Underdog

11. The Rebel

 

 

Sec. 2. (again, I’ll be picking 4-6, vote for as few as you like :D) 

  Reveal hidden contents

1. Villain Protagonist

2. Protagonist who, instead of being overly self-sacrificial, is incredibly selfish and gives up nothing

3. Character w/ trust issues 

4. Character’s caginess leads to problems 

5. Character has demons from the past (whether literal or metaphorical remains to be seen)

6. Villain trusted by the people 

7. Powerful, invulnerable character who is brought down to a human level 

8. Character who pushes away people who care about them because “I’m too dangerous for you to be around”

9. Justified, sympathetic villain

10. Monster character who wants to see the world burn just for fun or smth 

11. Hero who follows strict rules but goes on to break those rules 

12. Character who has survivor’s guilt 

13. Machiavellian character (very calculating and amoral, results oriented)

14. Character with a hidden talent or passion that comes to light in the narrative and completely changes how the other characters see them 

15. Big scary muscly bad past character is a good person, but the sweet, small, harmless character is super evil 

 

 

Plot

Sec. 1. (Same as before, we’ll see how it works in practice)

  Reveal hidden contents

1. Third act betrayal

2. Protag mentored by the villain

3. The villain and the protagonist work against a greater threat, forgetting they’re enemies in the process 

4. Villain’s plan or invention is their downfall 

5. Bavarian fire drill (character takes charge by acting like they’re in charge)

6. Resurrection gambit (character dies on purpose, hoping someone will bring them back)

7. Trust issues cause big problems 

8. Lovers to enemies

9. Enemies to lovers

10. Stockholm syndrome

11. Redemption arc 

12. Somebody gets convenient memory loss

 

 

Sec. 2. (pick one or add your own idk at this point)

  Reveal hidden contents

1. Heist story

2. Rediscovering magic

3. Quest story 

4. Personal hero’s journey 

 

 

Setting/ Worldbuilding

Sec. 1 ( up to 6)

  Reveal hidden contents

1. Set during war

2. Lawless dystopian past 

3. Small town with secrets 

4. Isolated island 

5. Dystopian future 

6. Magic hidden world

7. Decaying post- apocalypse

8. Mysterious ancient city

9. High school (i swear if you vote for this one i will bonk you on the head and if this one wins I will unleash the great demons)

10. Haunted house 

11. Sprawling metropolis 

12. Secret organization 

13. Dragon people 

14 Dragons 

15. Medieval/ less advanced society built in the ruins of an advanced civilization 

 

 

Sec. 2. (pick one or add ur own)

  Reveal hidden contents

1. Fantasy

2. Sci- fi 

3. Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

4. Urban fantasy 

5. Fever dream 

 

 

Million-dollar questions 

  Reveal hidden contents

1. Does it end well or badly? 

2. Romance or no?

3. Does the villain or protagonist win? 

4. Earth or otherwise?

Thanks for taking this survey thingy  

T1S1: 2, 5, 6

T1S2: 6, 10, 13

T2S1: 1, 2, 3, 4 (well, really, a combination of all of em seems best)

T2S2: Crusade to end magic

T3S1: 1, 11, 12 (so tempted to pick high school… but I don’t particularly like it)

T3S2: 4

T4Q1: Well, but protagonist DIES

T4Q2: Take it or leave it.

T4Q3: Villain, but something happens to reverse it.

T4Q4: Otherwise

[Treamayne]

56 minutes ago, Magi said:

I feel like most if not all tropes can be done well if the execution is good

Tropes are tools, and I agree they can shine when used well. The Subverted page does a good job showing examples of how tropes can be manipulated:

Spoiler

A full comparison could go something like this: A car chase is in progress at reckless speeds. The camera cuts to some workers carrying a Sheet of Glass, then cuts back to the panicked driver headed towards the workers. It seems pretty obvious that the driver is going to smash the glass sheet into a million fragments... or is it?

• If the car drives through the pane of glass, it's played straight.
• If the car drives through the pane of glass, and the workers are heard complaining about why cars that are being chased can avoid nearly everything but a pane of glass, it's lampshaded.
• If the car drives through the pane of glass, and the driver stops to explain the reason why he crashed into it, it's justified.
• If the car misses the pane of glass, it's subverted.
  • If something else causes the glass to be broken before the car can even make it to where the glass pane broke, it's also subverted.
• If the car misses the pane of glass but a second car breaks it instead, it's a double subversion.
  • If the pane of glass is broken before being hit by the car, which then drives through a different pane of glass carried by a second pair of workers, it's also double subverted.
  • Another double subversion is if the car hits the glass and knocks it out of the workers' hands without damage to the glass or car... and the glass crumbles after it gets picked back up.
• If the car comes down the road in a series of wide turns, and it isn't clear if the car will hit the pane of glass (if it ever makes it there), it's zig-zagged.
• If the car disappears from view and isn't seen again until after the sound of glass breaking, it's implied.
• If the car stops before hitting the pane of glass and then takes a different route, it's defied.
• If the car drives into the pane of glass, and not only the glass shatters, but also the car, as well as the workers, it's exaggerated.
• If the car is not doomed to hit the pane of glass, but one of the workers sees the car coming and stops in the street such that the car drives into the pane of glass, it's invoked.
• If the car drives through the glass, and views are shown of damage sustained by the car either complicating the driveability of the vehicle and/or making the car more identifiable to the chasers, or the workers point out the direction of the car to the chasers as they drive by, it's deconstructed.
  • However, if the chasing cars get flat tires driving over the glass shards strewn across the street, or if the drivers stop to see to the workers' injuries from the broken glass, it's reconstructed.
• If the car hits the pane of glass, and the chasing car(s) regain their lost trail from the scattered pieces of glass, it's exploited (and also Played for Drama.)
• If the car drives into the pane of glass, and the result is that the glass merely has a car-shaped hole in it, that's downplayed (and also Played for Laughs, but that's another matter. It's also Impact Silhouette played straight.)
  • If the car drives into the pane of glass, but the glass is only slightly chipped, then that's also downplayed (and also played straight.)
• However, if the car drives into the pane of glass, and the result is that the glass merely has a car-shaped hole in it, but the pane of glass collapsed on itself, it's either played straight or a double subversion (And also breaking a downplay).
• If the car drives through the pane of glass backwards, or in any other weird way that a car should not be driving in, it's parodied.
• If the car drives through the pane of glass, but it's the car that shatters (instead of the glass), it's inverted (and a very shoddily-built car at that).
• If the car hits the pane of glass and drives through unharmed because the car company paid to have their car in the film and wouldn't allow its use unless it was shown undamaged, it's enforced.
• If the workers are talking about the possibility of a car driving through the glass before the car chase reaches them, it's discussed.
• If the car's occupants mention the number of car chases that lead to a pane of glass being carried across a street, it's conversed.
• If the car drives into the pane of glass, but the glass endures and car bounces back, it is backfired.
• If there is no pane of glass despite road signs saying "glass factory", or no car chase despite hearing engines roaring from the distance while the workers transport the glass through the road, it's averted.

Additionally, note that a trope can be handled in different ways in different parts of a work; it's not uncommon for long-running serial works to sometimes play with or subvert tropes that they initially played straight.

Hope that helps

[Through The Living Glass She/They]

4 hours ago, Magi said:

*squints* is that . . . why you like June so much . . ?

 

um

not really

kinda?

He also just has a lot of family issues and it reminds me of my current situation, like, to the tee. 

[Mags she/they]

3 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Tropes are tools, and I agree they can shine when used well. The Subverted page does a good job showing examples of how tropes can be manipulated:

  Reveal hidden contents

A full comparison could go something like this: A car chase is in progress at reckless speeds. The camera cuts to some workers carrying a Sheet of Glass, then cuts back to the panicked driver headed towards the workers. It seems pretty obvious that the driver is going to smash the glass sheet into a million fragments... or is it?

• If the car drives through the pane of glass, it's played straight.
• If the car drives through the pane of glass, and the workers are heard complaining about why cars that are being chased can avoid nearly everything but a pane of glass, it's lampshaded.
• If the car drives through the pane of glass, and the driver stops to explain the reason why he crashed into it, it's justified.
• If the car misses the pane of glass, it's subverted.
  • If something else causes the glass to be broken before the car can even make it to where the glass pane broke, it's also subverted.
• If the car misses the pane of glass but a second car breaks it instead, it's a double subversion.
  • If the pane of glass is broken before being hit by the car, which then drives through a different pane of glass carried by a second pair of workers, it's also double subverted.
  • Another double subversion is if the car hits the glass and knocks it out of the workers' hands without damage to the glass or car... and the glass crumbles after it gets picked back up.
• If the car comes down the road in a series of wide turns, and it isn't clear if the car will hit the pane of glass (if it ever makes it there), it's zig-zagged.
• If the car disappears from view and isn't seen again until after the sound of glass breaking, it's implied.
• If the car stops before hitting the pane of glass and then takes a different route, it's defied.
• If the car drives into the pane of glass, and not only the glass shatters, but also the car, as well as the workers, it's exaggerated.
• If the car is not doomed to hit the pane of glass, but one of the workers sees the car coming and stops in the street such that the car drives into the pane of glass, it's invoked.
• If the car drives through the glass, and views are shown of damage sustained by the car either complicating the driveability of the vehicle and/or making the car more identifiable to the chasers, or the workers point out the direction of the car to the chasers as they drive by, it's deconstructed.
  • However, if the chasing cars get flat tires driving over the glass shards strewn across the street, or if the drivers stop to see to the workers' injuries from the broken glass, it's reconstructed.
• If the car hits the pane of glass, and the chasing car(s) regain their lost trail from the scattered pieces of glass, it's exploited (and also Played for Drama.)
• If the car drives into the pane of glass, and the result is that the glass merely has a car-shaped hole in it, that's downplayed (and also Played for Laughs, but that's another matter. It's also Impact Silhouette played straight.)
  • If the car drives into the pane of glass, but the glass is only slightly chipped, then that's also downplayed (and also played straight.)
• However, if the car drives into the pane of glass, and the result is that the glass merely has a car-shaped hole in it, but the pane of glass collapsed on itself, it's either played straight or a double subversion (And also breaking a downplay).
• If the car drives through the pane of glass backwards, or in any other weird way that a car should not be driving in, it's parodied.
• If the car drives through the pane of glass, but it's the car that shatters (instead of the glass), it's inverted (and a very shoddily-built car at that).
• If the car hits the pane of glass and drives through unharmed because the car company paid to have their car in the film and wouldn't allow its use unless it was shown undamaged, it's enforced.
• If the workers are talking about the possibility of a car driving through the glass before the car chase reaches them, it's discussed.
• If the car's occupants mention the number of car chases that lead to a pane of glass being carried across a street, it's conversed.
• If the car drives into the pane of glass, but the glass endures and car bounces back, it is backfired.
• If there is no pane of glass despite road signs saying "glass factory", or no car chase despite hearing engines roaring from the distance while the workers transport the glass through the road, it's averted.

Additionally, note that a trope can be handled in different ways in different parts of a work; it's not uncommon for long-running serial works to sometimes play with or subvert tropes that they initially played straight.

Hope that helps

My point was less that tropes can be subverted or changed, and more that no matter what you do with them, no matter what you start out with, whether that's a straight up trope, or some kind of subversion, it will be good if you write it well. It will suck if you don't try and don't care. I firmly believe that when it comes to art, you can make any idea work if you do it with skill and intention.

59 minutes ago, Through The Living Glass said:

um

not really

kinda?

He also just has a lot of family issues and it reminds me of my current situation, like, to the tee. 

Oh lolll neverminddd  don't mind me

[Treamayne]

5 minutes ago, Magi said:

My point was less that tropes can be subverted or changed, and more that no matter what you do with them, no matter what you start out with, whether that's a straight up trope, or some kind of subversion, it will be good if you write it well. It will suck if you don't try and don't care. I firmly believe that when it comes to art, you can make any idea work if you do it with skill and intention.

I agree, I was just providing a resource for people if they were unaware of the information (or just the terms, and how they interact).

Speaking of "any idea, written well, can be good" - are you familiar with Codex Alera and the history behind that series (six books, complete) genesis?

Spoiler

The Author, Jim Butcher, was in this type of discussion with another author on the SF&F Guild forums. He was also arguing that craft was more important than concept and offered to write a good story based on topics chosen by the other party. The prompts he was given. . .

Pokemon and the Lost Roman Legion

Butcher knocked it out of the park. Really great series.

 

[Mags she/they]

3 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

I agree, I was just providing a resource for people if they were unaware of the information (or just the terms, and how they interact).

Speaking of "any idea, written well, can be good" - are you familiar with Codex Alera and the history behind that series (six books, complete) genesis?

  Reveal hidden contents

The Author, Jim Butcher, was in this type of discussion with another author on the SF&F Guild forums. He was also arguing that craft was more important than concept and offered to write a good story based on topics chosen by the other party. The prompts he was given. . .

Pokemon and the Lost Roman Legion

Butcher knocked it out of the park. Really great series.

 

I had not heard of that! I'm glad to hear he proved his point 

[Through The Living Glass She/They]

21 minutes ago, Magi said:

Oh lolll neverminddd  don't mind me

. . . neverminding

[Through the Living Heir he/him]

5 hours ago, Halcyon The Only said:

Ok dudes here's the survey for the thing I was doing that @Ookla the Irreplaceable mentioned in the main post

Respond to as much or as little as you want--- no pressure... I don't wanna be annoying.............. 

Characters

Sec. 1 (I’ll be picking 4-6 to incorporate, so pick up to 6, but just one is ok :D)

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1. Chosen One  

2. Reluctant Hero

3. Mentor

4. Unlikely Ally

5. Antihero

6. Antivillain 

7. Damsel in Distress

8. Heir to the Throne

9. Best of the Best 

10. Underdog

11. The Rebel

 

 

Sec. 2. (again, I’ll be picking 4-6, vote for as few as you like :D) 

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1. Villain Protagonist

2. Protagonist who, instead of being overly self-sacrificial, is incredibly selfish and gives up nothing

3. Character w/ trust issues 

4. Character’s caginess leads to problems 

5. Character has demons from the past (whether literal or metaphorical remains to be seen)

6. Villain trusted by the people 

7. Powerful, invulnerable character who is brought down to a human level 

8. Character who pushes away people who care about them because “I’m too dangerous for you to be around”

9. Justified, sympathetic villain

10. Monster character who wants to see the world burn just for fun or smth 

11. Hero who follows strict rules but goes on to break those rules 

12. Character who has survivor’s guilt 

13. Machiavellian character (very calculating and amoral, results oriented)

14. Character with a hidden talent or passion that comes to light in the narrative and completely changes how the other characters see them 

15. Big scary muscly bad past character is a good person, but the sweet, small, harmless character is super evil 

 

 

Plot

Sec. 1. (Same as before, we’ll see how it works in practice)

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1. Third act betrayal

2. Protag mentored by the villain

3. The villain and the protagonist work against a greater threat, forgetting they’re enemies in the process 

4. Villain’s plan or invention is their downfall 

5. Bavarian fire drill (character takes charge by acting like they’re in charge)

6. Resurrection gambit (character dies on purpose, hoping someone will bring them back)

7. Trust issues cause big problems 

8. Lovers to enemies

9. Enemies to lovers

10. Stockholm syndrome

11. Redemption arc 

12. Somebody gets convenient memory loss

 

 

Sec. 2. (pick one or add your own idk at this point)

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1. Heist story

2. Rediscovering magic

3. Quest story 

4. Personal hero’s journey 

 

 

Setting/ Worldbuilding

Sec. 1 ( up to 6)

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1. Set during war

2. Lawless dystopian past 

3. Small town with secrets 

4. Isolated island 

5. Dystopian future 

6. Magic hidden world

7. Decaying post- apocalypse

8. Mysterious ancient city

9. High school (i swear if you vote for this one i will bonk you on the head and if this one wins I will unleash the great demons)

10. Haunted house 

11. Sprawling metropolis 

12. Secret organization 

13. Dragon people 

14 Dragons 

15. Medieval/ less advanced society built in the ruins of an advanced civilization 

 

 

Sec. 2. (pick one or add ur own)

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1. Fantasy

2. Sci- fi 

3. Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

4. Urban fantasy 

5. Fever dream 

 

 

Million-dollar questions 

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1. Does it end well or badly? 

2. Romance or no?

3. Does the villain or protagonist win? 

4. Earth or otherwise?

Thanks for taking this survey thingy  

I look forward to seeing this, and may copy you. In all cases, I voted too much, but would be interested in seeing several options combined, if done well. 

Characters:

2. Reluctant Hero, 3. Mentor, 4. Unlikely Ally, 5. Antihero, and 6. Antivillain, especially if several of those apply to the same person. 
Characters again:

1. Villain Protagonist, 4. Character’s caginess leads to problems, 5. Character has demons from the past (whether literal or metaphorical remains to be seen), 6. Villain trusted by the people, 7. Powerful, invulnerable character who is brought down to a human level, 9. Justified, sympathetic villain, 12. Character who has survivor’s guilt, 13. Machiavellian character (very calculating and amoral, results oriented), 14. Character with a hidden talent or passion that comes to light in the narrative and completely changes how the other characters see them 

Plot things: 

2. Protag mentored by the villain, 3. The villain and the protagonist work against a greater threat, forgetting they’re enemies in the process, 5. Bavarian fire drill (character takes charge by acting like they’re in charge), 6. Resurrection gambit (character dies on purpose, hoping someone will bring them back), 10. Stockholm syndrome, 11. Redemption arc 

Plot genre: 

2. Rediscovering magic, active goal seeking rather than passive reactionary plot (could be any of the other three), 

Setting: 

8. Mysterious ancient city, 11. Sprawling metropolis, 12. Secret organization, 13. Dragon people, 14 Dragons, 15. Medieval/ less advanced society built in the ruins of an advanced civilization 

Genre: I can see any one of these done well and it may grow out naturally from the other questions. Of course, I do love sci-fi, but fantasy is also great, and I’m indecisive when I’m tired. Please try to avoid “*ghost noises* space magic” settings though. Science fiction and fantasy are both better if consistency and logic are included. 

Million dollar questions: 

1. Does it end well or badly? 

That depends on how you define well. I’d like a satisfying ending, but there are plenty of satisfying endings that have almost everyone dead. 

2. Romance or no?

I’d take a sub-plot, but I personally would not want it to overshadow everything else. 

3. Does the villain or protagonist win? 
I’m not sure. The tropes that I selected will make it hard to even figure out which is which, and they might end up working together. Again, I think this one might be emergent writing, and better off not predefined. Of course, you likely have a different writing style than I. 

4. Earth or otherwise?

If it’s Earth, I don’t want it to be Earth now. Alternate Earth or sci-fi Earth is fine, though, if you can make some worldbuilding. (You don’t have to, of course. Worldbuilding is a lot of work that tends to make me write for weeks and never start the plot.) 

I should go to sleep now, but good luck. I look forward to seeing the result, and would be glad to help edit. 

[Bird Furious she/her/un/important]

12 hours ago, Dragonheir said:

I look forward to seeing this, and may copy you. In all cases, I voted too much, but would be interested in seeing several options combined, if done well. 

Characters:

2. Reluctant Hero, 3. Mentor, 4. Unlikely Ally, 5. Antihero, and 6. Antivillain, especially if several of those apply to the same person. 
Characters again:

1. Villain Protagonist, 4. Character’s caginess leads to problems, 5. Character has demons from the past (whether literal or metaphorical remains to be seen), 6. Villain trusted by the people, 7. Powerful, invulnerable character who is brought down to a human level, 9. Justified, sympathetic villain, 12. Character who has survivor’s guilt, 13. Machiavellian character (very calculating and amoral, results oriented), 14. Character with a hidden talent or passion that comes to light in the narrative and completely changes how the other characters see them 

Plot things: 

2. Protag mentored by the villain, 3. The villain and the protagonist work against a greater threat, forgetting they’re enemies in the process, 5. Bavarian fire drill (character takes charge by acting like they’re in charge), 6. Resurrection gambit (character dies on purpose, hoping someone will bring them back), 10. Stockholm syndrome, 11. Redemption arc 

Plot genre: 

2. Rediscovering magic, active goal seeking rather than passive reactionary plot (could be any of the other three), 

Setting: 

8. Mysterious ancient city, 11. Sprawling metropolis, 12. Secret organization, 13. Dragon people, 14 Dragons, 15. Medieval/ less advanced society built in the ruins of an advanced civilization 

Genre: I can see any one of these done well and it may grow out naturally from the other questions. Of course, I do love sci-fi, but fantasy is also great, and I’m indecisive when I’m tired. Please try to avoid “*ghost noises* space magic” settings though. Science fiction and fantasy are both better if consistency and logic are included. 

Million dollar questions: 

1. Does it end well or badly? 

That depends on how you define well. I’d like a satisfying ending, but there are plenty of satisfying endings that have almost everyone dead. 

2. Romance or no?

I’d take a sub-plot, but I personally would not want it to overshadow everything else. 

3. Does the villain or protagonist win? 
I’m not sure. The tropes that I selected will make it hard to even figure out which is which, and they might end up working together. Again, I think this one might be emergent writing, and better off not predefined. Of course, you likely have a different writing style than I. 

4. Earth or otherwise?

If it’s Earth, I don’t want it to be Earth now. Alternate Earth or sci-fi Earth is fine, though, if you can make some worldbuilding. (You don’t have to, of course. Worldbuilding is a lot of work that tends to make me write for weeks and never start the plot.) 

I should go to sleep now, but good luck. I look forward to seeing the result, and would be glad to help edit. 

Thanks! I will definitely keep that in mind