Zellion's Armor

[Ironeyes]

After finishing Wind and Truth, I reread The Sunlit Man and some details jumped out at me. These two descriptions of Zellion/Sigzil's Plate take place just after Zellion flies through the sunlight to catch up to Unity: 

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He glanced at her, and the slit at the front glowed a deep red-orange, the color of coals—or sunhearts. p. 407

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His armor was glowing too, though not in either of its customary shades of blue. Instead it glowed with the light of embers—the sunlight might have damaged it, because little flecks of red-orange light continued to burn all across it—and when he moved, he trailed smoke. p. 400

When I first read TSM, I assumed that the armor is glowing orange due to the heat of Canticle's sun. However, the glow isn't coming from the superheated metal. It's coming from the eye slit. I'm sure everyone sees where I'm going with this. Consider these two descriptions of Adolin's plate after he reclaims it from Abidi: 

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There, in the dark throne room, a flickering orange-red light like a fire's flame started to glow from the joints of his armor and from the front of his helm. There were no symbols on the breastplate, because he was not Radiant. p. 1222

Adolin Kholin--in Shardplate painted blue, shining between the joints with a flaming orange glow--strode out of the throne room. p. 1227

And it isn't just Adolin whose armor glows orange. So does Yanagawn's: 

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The same flickering glow of firelight emanated from the helmet and joints, and again there was no symbol. Yanagawn seized the Blade from the ground and pulled it free, turning to meet the tide of enemies. p. 1235

Obviously, I think Zellion has converted his original living Plate into Unoathed Plate. The conditions are similar enough to the original to work. Auxiliary isn't exactly a deadeye, but he certainly is dead. Zellion no longer has his oaths but retains his Connection to the armor. He pulled it into the Physical realm from the Cognitive with a dead spren's help, just as Adolin and Maya did. 

Ok, there are two big flaws in this theory that I can think of. 

First counterargument: Zellion acts like he doesn't know why his armor is glowing orange, betraying an unfamiliarity with Unoathed Plate. It's probably a stretch to say that in the long time span since Adolin first gaining Unoathed Plate Zellion has never seen a set. However, he doesn't necessarily connect the change in color with potential sun damage. In the sentence structure, that worry is linguistically connected to the flecks of light burning across the surface and to the trailing smoke. He glosses over the color, and this could very easily be an author's trick to avoid spoiling an as-yet unpublished book. Or Zellion could just not know much about Unoathed Plate because he has been avoiding Roshar since the Night Brigade began chasing him. We don't know how long ago that was. 

Second counterargument: Not all of the Unoathed bear orange armor. Notum's glows blue: 

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The Fused dropped, eyes burning, and Adolin saw a Shardbearer in blue-glowing Plate behind her. "Brightlord Adolin?" a familiar masculine voice said. "Are you well?"

"Notum?" Adolin said, shaking himself. "Indeed," the Shardbearer said from within his helm. "I do not have much substance in this realm, but...well, not much seems to be enough to control this Plate. The windspren have accepted me as their bearer." p. 1241

It's easy to chalk this up to Notum being an honorspren, bearing armor that once belonged to a Windrunner. It seems entirely natural that it would glow the same color for him as it did for the original Knight. 

Now let's say, arguendo, that we accept the conclusion that Zellion now has Unoathed armor. What are the implications? 

Well first, we know that the Unoathed can summon their Plate and repair it without the usual need for infused gems like dead Plate. 

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[Yanagawn] could summon his Plate and Blade like a Radiant at any moment. Somehow, their armor and swords worked without Stormlight. In contras to those of ordinary Shardbearers--whose Blades could not be bonded and Plate could not be repaired--the armaments of the Unoathed still functioned. Maya said something had been done at the end by the Heralds to shield and protect the spren--and this was a side effect. p. 1314

Zellion doesn't confirm whether he can resummon his armor after Auxiliary's final burst of Oath-fueled strength. 

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Zellion slumped forward, and she could hear him breathing deeply from within his helmet. Then his armor began to disintegrate, vaporizing to smoke, leaving him—in seconds—exposed. He struggled to his feet and picked up a fallen machete.

“Can you bring it back?” Elegy asked, approaching him on a deck slick with blood.

“I don’t know,” he said. “Not soon, I suspect. I’m . . . not sure how the relationship stands between me and my armor. But it felt good to bear it again.”

If Zellion does have Unoathed Plate now, he should be able to resummon it later. Combined with his newfound method of siphoning off the Torment, this man is a much more dangerous person than he was at the beginning of TSM. 

Another implication: Because the Unoathed existing is a side effect of the second Oathpact, this may mean that the new Oathpact is still in force at the time of TSM. Does that mean Retribution is still a threat to the spren? Possibly. Or does it just mean the Heralds decided to maintain the shield over the spren for other reasons? They could distrust the current incarnations of Honor and Cultivation, or they could be protecting spren from influence by forces from outside the Rosharan system. Maybe they just don't see a reason to break it, if they're even capable of doing so (they didn't do so hot at breaking the original Oathpact) or don't want to die permanently. 

Finally, there are some delicious possibilities for Unoathed in the Cosmere-wide conflict, if they can still exist by this late in the timeline. They boast nearly as much martial power as a Radiant, but don't have to abide by the oaths and don't have to use Investiture. They could be foot soldiers for Roshar, mercenaries, or spies who can infiltrate where Radiants can't by posing as civilians. They might have even grown into a full-fledged organization in parallel to the Knights Radiant, founded on Adolin's core principles instead of Tanavast's. Who knows? 

[Atlas333]

This is an interesting point and it makes a lot of sense. I've been thinking about the few hints we get about the unoathed in the Sunlit Man.

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“Rosharan, have you said the oaths?”
“No,” Zellion lied. “I’m a free man. I’ve got no part in the conflicts.
Just want to keep my head down and stay alive.” (ch 44)

“Who were you talking to?” the woman asked him, narrowing
her eyes. “I thought you said you were unoathed. Do you have a
spren?” (ch 45)

Interestingly Zellion doesn't claim to be unoathed but the scadrian labels him as one. Initially unoathed was assumed to mean not a radiant but now with WaT it means something else entirely.

This could imply that the unoathed are still a faction in the wider conflict but Zellion could either be trying not to affiliate himself with that group or he could be unaware of their existence (either because of their small size or because he's been too busy running). It's hard to say definitively because it's hard to differentiate between Brandon being sneaky and deliberately hiding information or Zellion not knowing that information.

 

[marles]

Not necessarily the case, but I would assume any Unoathed faction would be more communicative with their spren, like Adolin & Maya, even though they are not bound by oaths in the same way Radiants are. And if that faction was known around the Cosmere (or at the very least, to the Scadrians), I would think they also know about the Unoathed having spren around that they talk to. Being a Radiant/oathed in the Sunlit Man time period likely means an agent of Retribution and an enemy to Scadrians whereas Unoathed may or may not be more neutral or even opposing Retribution in some way.

I think this question from the Scadrians is as it first seemed and does not have relation to the Unoathed we see in Wind and Truth. Them realizing he is talking to a spren alerts them immediately to thinking he is an enemy even after Sigzil telling him he has not said the oaths. If they thought he was an Unoathed, they probably wouldn't have such immediate concern.

Also, although this is not a 100% foolproof way to tell, in Wind and Truth, he has written it as 'Unoathed' (with a capital U), right? But in Sunlit Man it is 'unoathed' (with a lowercase U)? If he was planning this connection, I think it likely that Unoathed would have be capitalized in Sunlit Man and readers would have been questioning this sooner.

[Atlas333]

1 hour ago, marles said:

Not necessarily the case, but I would assume any Unoathed faction would be more communicative with their spren, like Adolin & Maya, even though they are not bound by oaths in the same way Radiants

Correct me if I'm wrong but can't the unoathed communicate telepathically with their spren? Normal radiants aren't able to do this until higher ideals I believe.

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Also, although this is not a 100% foolproof way to tell, in Wind and Truth, he has written it as 'Unoathed' (with a capital U), right? But in Sunlit Man it is 'unoathed' (with a lowercase U)? If he was planning this connection, I think it likely that Unoathed would have be capitalized in Sunlit Man and readers would have been questioning this sooner.

You've got a point there. I think it's likely it wasn't capitalized intentionally to avoid spoiling stormlight 5. However, even if it wasn't, Adolin's arc with Maya has been in the works for so long (since WoR really) that I can't imagine the unoathed were a recent development in his plan for the series. Surely by Sunlit Man, it was at least in the back of Brandon's mind even if the specifics hadn't been nailed down.

[marles]

9 minutes ago, Atlas333 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but can't the unoathed communicate telepathically with their spren? Normal radiants aren't able to do this until higher ideals I believe.

I don't know that the Unoathed can all blanket/generally communicate telepathically with their spren, I just assumed that it is dependent on the relationship between them and the spren. I was more using it as point that Rosharans may talk to spren regardless of being Radiants or Unoathed, so it wouldn't necessarily be an indicator to a Scadrian that they are in the presence of a Radiant (somebody they are likely Cosmere-factionally opposed to) vs. an Unoathed (who they may be more neutral or friendly with). And since Sigzil told them he had not spoken the oaths, just the action of talking with a spren shouldn't necessarily put them all at instantly high-alert if they are familiar with the Unoathed.

But of course this point is dependent on Unoathed being aligned neutrally or against Retribution in the greater Cosmere conflict (such that Scadrians wouldn't also immediately react against them) and also that Scadrians (including some stationed remotely like in Sunlit Man) would be familiar with that faction and how they work. Both of which are unknown at this point and how it will development between the time of Wind and Truth and Sunlit Man.

20 minutes ago, Atlas333 said:

I think it's likely it wasn't capitalized intentionally to avoid spoiling stormlight 5. However, even if it wasn't, Adolin's arc with Maya has been in the works for so long (since WoR really) that I can't imagine the unoathed were a recent development in his plan for the series. Surely by Sunlit Man, it was at least in the back of Brandon's mind even if the specifics hadn't been nailed down.

Yeah, I'm sure this will be asked about more directly in the near future and we'll get a WoB (or maybe a RAFO I guess). On one hand, I can see him maybe trying to reduce potential Wind and Truth spoilers here, but he has also had some capitalizations in other books previously that have had people raising questions when we didn't have other information available.

[Ninth of the Night]

14 hours ago, Ironeyes said:

It's probably a stretch to say that in the long time span since Adolin first gaining Unoathed Plate Zellion has never seen a set.

Not as much of a stretch as you might think. Originally we figured that Sunlit Man took place long after Stormlight 10, but now with the time dilation it's more likely it lies somewhere within the gap between 5 and 6. Only about 10 years will pass on Roshar while everywhere else will progress 100+ years. Sigzil left Roshar directly after everything started going to Damnation. There's a lot of information he missed out on, and Hoid wouldn't have much else to fill him in on since he was dusted away from the planet even before Sigzil departed.

Also Deadeyes are essentially fixed now, I think, since Ba-Ado-Mishram's release set things right. So it's quite possible that Sigzil has unoathed Armor, but he wouldn't know about its significance as he hasn't been back to Roshar to learn about such things. It almost seems like he doesn't even know about the time dilation, but I find it hard to believe Hoid wouldn't mention that (or maybe not, considering it's Hoid). Regardless it wouldn't have been mentioned in Sunlit Man for obvious spoiler reasons.

Something else that has been bothering me though, when Sigzil explains to Aux about why he broke his previous Oaths...

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“I don’t know,” he said.

Liar.

“Not this time,” Nomad whispered. “I don’t know, Auxiliary. I just…did it. I can’t explain my mindset. I can’t justify it. I disavowed my oaths. It’s the choice I made. But I didn’t have a reason.”

You have to. Everything has a reason.

(...)

Nomad… Sigzil. I don’t understand.

“Humans,” Nomad whispered, “are…inconsistent sometimes. We do what we feel. We can’t explain it. I look back on the choice I made, and it feels entirely unlike me. But I did it; I made the choice. In the heat of a moment.

“It doesn’t matter if it’s what I wanted to do or what—logically—I should have done. The consequences stand. This…this is who I am.”

I'm willing to believe there's more to this that we just haven't seen yet, but the way Sigzil broke his bond with Vienta made perfect sense. And he absolutely had a valid reason and can easily justify it. He was trying to save his friend, that isn't difficult to explain at all, which means Aux is right to call Sigzil a liar.

It's hard for me to believe that Brandon just made a mistake here, and possibly didn't yet know how Sigzil left the Windrunners while writing Sunlit Man. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but as of now it seems rather clunky.

[Ironeyes]

30 minutes ago, Ninth of the Night said:

I'm willing to believe there's more to this that we just haven't seen yet, but the way Sigzil broke his bond with Vienta made perfect sense. And he absolutely had a valid reason and can easily justify it. He was trying to save his friend, that isn't difficult to explain at all, which means Aux is right to call Sigzil a liar.

It's hard for me to believe that Brandon just made a mistake here, and possibly didn't yet know how Sigzil left the Windrunners while writing Sunlit Man. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but as of now it seems rather clunky.

I think that quote is in reference to Sigzil's Skybreaker oaths, not his Windrunner ones. He swore those long after breaking the bond with Vienta, then renounced them some time after that. 

[Texside he/him/his]

4 hours ago, Ninth of the Night said:

I'm willing to believe there's more to this that we just haven't seen yet, but the way Sigzil broke his bond with Vienta made perfect sense. And he absolutely had a valid reason and can easily justify it. He was trying to save his friend, that isn't difficult to explain at all, which means Aux is right to call Sigzil a liar.

It's hard for me to believe that Brandon just made a mistake here, and possibly didn't yet know how Sigzil left the Windrunners while writing Sunlit Man. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but as of now it seems rather clunky.

I'm wondering how much of this is Sigzil trying to justify a desperate, spur of the moment decision after the fact. Like, it seemed like -- in Wind and Truth -- he just jumped to that conclusion out of absolute terror of Vienta being killed by Moash, after she was grievously injured. At the time, he probably thought about it for half a second.

But then he had decades to think about it: to add meaning to his decision, to reinterpret it, to ask why he made that choice. And contending with the guilt after, with Vienta never wanting to see him again and the terrible knowledge he could have condemned her to be a Deadeye forever. So, I'm not sure how much his later reflections show what he was thinking at the time, rather than how he processed it later (or failed to).