Kharbranth

[elihaun]

So, I don't feel like I have seen ANYHTING about Kharbranth in any of the theories.  But it is SUPER important I feel. How will Taravangian be able to keep this promise AND the deal made with Dalinar?  What if someone from Kharbranth was picked as the champion? What are we overlooking? The fact taht this section where Taravangian made a deal with odium seems super important, and its something that I feel was added on purpose, not just by happenstance

[Slayd_07]

Yeah, having somebody who made a binding promise with the Shard later pick up the Shard is weird. 
Although, it's possible that Taravangian could break that agreement with little to no consequence now, since him "breaking" the agreement would be more like both parties mutually agreeing to terminate their contract. 
The other thing to note here is the Taravangian-picks-up-odium plot twist was something that Sanderson came up with while writing RoW, so he may not necessarily have planned for Taravangian's deal to be relevant in that aspect.  

[+Oltux72 he/him]

23 minutes ago, elihaun said:

How will Taravangian be able to keep this promise AND the deal made with Dalinar?

He has already broken his promise. Taravangian promised to serve Odium, yet he attacked him with Nightblood. Critically that happened before he ascended.

[Slayd_07]

6 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

He has already broken his promise. Taravangian promised to serve Odium, yet he attacked him with Nightblood. Critically that happened before he ascended.

Ooh, good catch! I think this likely means that the Shard is no longer bound by that promise, since the other person within the contract broke it. 

[AquaRegia he/him]

2 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

He has already broken his promise. Taravangian promised to serve Odium, yet he attacked him with Nightblood. Critically that happened before he ascended.

Disagree, we've discussed this before.  Taravangian did everything he said he would do for Odium, and that agreement was completely satisfied.  The later attack with Nightblood was not related to the agreement in any way, thus no promise was broken.  

I completely agree that Odium's end of the deal - to preserve Kharbranth and its residents - seems like it should be super important at some point, perhaps merely that in choosing to break it, TOdium opens himself up to some Shardic consequences... although as @Slayd_07 points out, that might be allowed without consequences.

10 minutes ago, Slayd_07 said:

the Taravangian-picks-up-odium plot twist was something that Sanderson came up with while writing RoW, so he may not necessarily have planned for Taravangian's deal to be relevant in that aspect.

Do we KNOW this?  If so, how?  WoB?  That seems like an AWFULLY big plot development to just throw in on the fly...

[elihaun]

42 minutes ago, Slayd_07 said:

Although, it's possible that Taravangian could break that agreement with little to no consequence now, since him "breaking" the agreement would be more like both parties mutually agreeing to terminate their contract. 

Ah, but Taravangian did not make the deal, the DIAGRAM made the deal (I think the wording was 'the diagram will serve you' or something along those lines). And the diagram is more than just Taravangian, no? So, they WOULD have some power in the contract if Taravangian decided to attack Kabranth.

[CognitiveShadow he/him]

21 hours ago, AquaRegia said:

Do we KNOW this?  If so, how?  WoB?  That seems like an AWFULLY big plot development to just throw in on the fly...

Yes, there are multiple WoB's where he has gone into detail about how/why he decided to have Taravangian ascend. It was ultimately something he finalized after writing out the scenes and getting feedback from beta readers. But he did it because he felt that Rayse Odium had failed too many times, and was therefore a less intimidating or scary 'bad guy'. He put Taravangian in so that there would be more mystery around what he might do and how his crafty nature might come into play, whereas Rayse was much more direct and blunt in his plans.

21 hours ago, AquaRegia said:

Disagree, we've discussed this before.  Taravangian did everything he said he would do for Odium, and that agreement was completely satisfied.  The later attack with Nightblood was not related to the agreement in any way, thus no promise was broken.  

I completely agree that Odium's end of the deal - to preserve Kharbranth and its residents - seems like it should be super important at some point, perhaps merely that in choosing to break it, TOdium opens himself up to some Shardic consequences... although as @Slayd_07 points out, that might be allowed without consequences.

I think you are right that the contract will still have some kind of impact. Though I would not be surprised if it is voided. Sja-Anat specifically points out that becuase of his agreements with Odium he is in Odium's power - so he didn't have the protections that other people have naturally against Odium destroying them. Then again, he had already met all the terms of the agreement, so it's possible that the power is still bound to protect Kharbranth.

Regardless, we have a WoB that get's RAFO'd about this topic:

Quote

Questioner

At the end of Oathbringer, Taravangian makes a deal with Odium about defending Kharbranth, can you please spare Kharbranth. At the end of Rhythm of War, is that still relevant? Does he still have a pact with himself?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO. Excellent question, I like the way you guys are thinking.

Dragonsteel Mini-Con 2021 (Nov. 22, 2021)

So this makes it seem like there will be an impact to some degree - just how big of an impact is still unknown.

[OoklaApologist She/her]

2 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

He has already broken his promise. Taravangian promised to serve Odium, yet he attacked him with Nightblood. Critically that happened before he ascended.

Did he promise to serve Odium or serve Rayse? If he acts in the interests of the shard, is that 'serving Odium'?

[The Stick]

I think that Todium ending the Kharbranth agreements with both parties won't work. I envision this like Odium being the chair. Taravangian is just the guy sitting in it. I would say then that the deal can't be voided by Taravangian, since he can't void agreements of the Shard itself.

[AquaRegia he/him]

22 hours ago, KelsierApologist said:

Did he promise to serve Odium or serve Rayse? If he acts in the interests of the shard, is that 'serving Odium'?

Definitely Odium, not Rayse.  I don't think Taravangian even knew about Rayse until after his Ascension.

If I recall, the agreement was to "serve Odium" in the context of the war, and Taravangian was given very specific orders - place certain Veden generals and units in particular locations, then turn on Dalinar and the Alethi/Thaylen/Azish alliance at a critical moment.  Taravangian faithfully carried out every instruction.  He had done everything he promised to do, fulfilled his end of the agreement, and was captured and jailed, waiting for death, when a crazy "hail-Adonalsium" plan unexpectedly worked and brought Szeth (and Nightblood) within his grasp.

In my opinion, he did everything he could possibly do to satisfy the contract, and did nothing that would constitute breaking it, right up until the moment of his physical death.  I believe the contract - requiring Odium to protect and preserve the city of Kharbranth and all its citizens - is still in effect.  I expect (hope) that the continued existence (or the future breaking) of this contract will have an important effect on TOdium at some point.  I will be disappointed if it does not... if not, why put it in?

[Stark he/him]

One could argue that Taravangian swore to serve Odium, not Rayse.  And in taking up the shard of Odium, he now serves it better, and more ably than his predecessor.  Oath intact.