Transporting Manifested Objects in Shadesmar

[Isaiasi he/him]

I’m currently rereading RoW, and have a curiosity; can you take an object you manifested in Shadesmar and bring it back to the Physical Realm? If so, will a new bead form from the soul of the manifested object?

Edited October 24, 2024 by Isaiasi

[Treamayne]

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8 minutes ago, Isaiasi said:

I’m currently rereading RoW, and had a curiosity; can you take an object you manifested in Shadesmar and bring it back to the Physical Realm? If so, will a new bead form from the spirit of the manifested object?

We do not have a specific WoB on this that I can find, but it is unlikely. A Manifested object is just giving a temporary form in Shadesmar to an Object's Cognitive self through investiture - not actually bringing the Physical object  into Shadesmar. This is also seen in RoW when they are trading and Adolin discovers hos swords were much more valuable because he brought them physically, not just manifested them (RoW Ch 29, 75 and Mistborn: Secret History Spoilers):

Spoiler

RoW Ch 29:

Quote

His soldiers stopped to browse a weapon shop, though he’d warned them that they shouldn’t rely on manifested weapons. Still, it was difficult not to stare at the sheer variety of swords on display. In the Physical Realm a masterwork sword was an expensive purchase—and it often surprised people how valuable even an everyday side sword could be. Here though, manifesting a sword took roughly the same amount of Stormlight as manifesting a brick, so you could find them in barrels or stacked in piles outside shops.

RoW Ch 75

Quote

The honorspren had expelled Godeke soon after, but permitted Adolin to communicate with his team via letters.

They’d traded—with his permission—a few of his swords to a passing caravan of Reachers for more food and water. Non-manifested weapons were worth a lot in Shadesmar. The Stump, Zu, and the rest of Adolin’s soldiers had left to bring word to his father. 

M:Sh Part 4 Ch 4:

Spoiler

He was a much different figure from the one who had left Luthadel. He planted his staff on the ground beside him—he’d recovered that from the body of a dead refugee in the real world and coaxed it to life, giving it a new home and a new master to serve. Same for the enveloping cloak he wore, frayed at the edges almost like a mistcloak.

The pack he carried was different; he’d taken that from an abandoned store. No master had ever carried it. It considered its purpose to sit on a shelf and be admired. So far it had still made for a suitable companion.

Kelsier settled down, putting aside his staff and digging into his pack. He counted off his balls of mist, which he kept wrapped up tight in the pack. None had vanished this time; that was good. When an object was recovered—or worse, destroyed—in the Physical Realm, its Identity changed and the spirit would return to the location of its body.

Abandoned objects were best. Ones that had been owned for a long while, so they had a strong Identity, but which currently had nobody in the Physical Realm to care for them. He pulled out the ball of mist that was his campfire and unfolded it, bathing in its warmth. It was starting to fray, the logs pocked with misty holes. He could only guess that he’d carried it too far from its origin, and the distance was distressing it.

He pulled out another ball of mist, which unfolded in his hand, becoming a leather waterskin. He took a long drink. It didn’t do him any real good; the water vanished soon after being poured out, and he didn’t seem to need to drink.

He drank anyway. It felt good on his lips and throat, refreshing.

 

So, we see that Physical Items in Shadesmar are prized for their permanence, but a Manifested item is not really in Shadesmar, and disruption of its Physical Body can affect or negate the Manfested item.

Hope that helps

[+Lewis Nethur He/Him]

21 hours ago, Isaiasi said:

I’m currently rereading RoW, and have a curiosity; can you take an object you manifested in Shadesmar and bring it back to the Physical Realm? If so, will a new bead form from the soul of the manifested object?

First, your username is totally awesome, i absolutely love the reference and stylizing.

Second...under normal circumstances: 100% outright no.

Third: I do believe it is possible to cheat that system under extremely exotic conditions though. By my current understanding, it would always require the informed consent, cooperation, coordination, and engagement of another person (or, more likely, a whole bunch of people) in the physical realm (or the spiritual realm if you're actually crazy and ambitious enough to try to manifest something into a greater dimension of freedom instead of a lower one!) To get the operation to fully come together successfully. I'm still giving it 50/50 odds that some process like this is how Kelsier got his body back in the first place when that was always supposed to be impossible (at least if you believe what Shards and their acolytes tell you...)

[Isaiasi he/him]

22 minutes ago, hwiles said:

First, your username is totally awesome, i absolutely love the reference and stylizing.

Second...under normal circumstances: 100% outright no.

Third: I do believe it is possible to cheat that system under extremely exotic conditions though. By my current understanding, it would always require the informed consent, cooperation, coordination, and engagement of another person (or, more likely, a whole bunch of people) in the physical realm (or the spiritual realm if you're actually crazy and ambitious enough to try to manifest something into a greater dimension of freedom instead of a lower one!) To get the operation to fully come together successfully. I'm still giving it 50/50 odds that some process like this is how Kelsier got his body back in the first place when that was always supposed to be impossible (at least if you believe what Shards and their acolytes tell you...)

Thanks!

Interesting…I’ve read a lot of Brandon Sanderson but haven’t too much into the theory…thanks for sharing!

21 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Welcome to the Shard. Please consider an Intro Post to let us know what you have or have-not read, so we can avoid spoilers if necessary. Also, please consider checking out the Sharder FAQ for some useful tips and tricks - as each forum is slightly different.  

Also, I have reported your post for you, since this is the wrong Forum. All book discussion belongs in the appropriate section (Blue Header Bars on the main forum page): "Cosmere" for those works, "Non-Cosmere" for everything else, "Spoiler Zone" for Preview material and new releases in their Spoiler Period, and "Related works" for Unpublished material and non-books (blogs, podcast, youtube released, etc.). Each forum also has a synopsis on the main page to help determine where you should be mosting a given topic. For example, you posted in:

  Reveal hidden contents

Arcanum Discussion

Discuss Arcanum, the Brandon Sanderson Archive, here.  Arcanum is used to search for Words of Brandon - link (more details in the FAQ)

When this should be in either :

  Reveal hidden contents

For Stormlight only:

For References in any Cosmere work not in the spoiler period:

 

 

We do not have a specific WoB on this that I can find, but it is unlikely. A Manifested object is just giving a temporary form in Shadesmar to an Object's Cognitive self through investiture - not actually bringing the Physical object  into Shadesmar. This is also seen in RoW when they are trading and Adolin discovers hos swords were much more valuable because he brought them physically, not just manifested them (RoW Ch 29, 75 and Mistborn: Secret History Spoilers):

  Reveal hidden contents

RoW Ch 29:

RoW Ch 75

M:Sh Part 4 Ch 4:

  Reveal hidden contents

He was a much different figure from the one who had left Luthadel. He planted his staff on the ground beside him—he’d recovered that from the body of a dead refugee in the real world and coaxed it to life, giving it a new home and a new master to serve. Same for the enveloping cloak he wore, frayed at the edges almost like a mistcloak.

The pack he carried was different; he’d taken that from an abandoned store. No master had ever carried it. It considered its purpose to sit on a shelf and be admired. So far it had still made for a suitable companion.

Kelsier settled down, putting aside his staff and digging into his pack. He counted off his balls of mist, which he kept wrapped up tight in the pack. None had vanished this time; that was good. When an object was recovered—or worse, destroyed—in the Physical Realm, its Identity changed and the spirit would return to the location of its body.

Abandoned objects were best. Ones that had been owned for a long while, so they had a strong Identity, but which currently had nobody in the Physical Realm to care for them. He pulled out the ball of mist that was his campfire and unfolded it, bathing in its warmth. It was starting to fray, the logs pocked with misty holes. He could only guess that he’d carried it too far from its origin, and the distance was distressing it.

He pulled out another ball of mist, which unfolded in his hand, becoming a leather waterskin. He took a long drink. It didn’t do him any real good; the water vanished soon after being poured out, and he didn’t seem to need to drink.

He drank anyway. It felt good on his lips and throat, refreshing.

 

So, we see that Physical Items in Shadesmar are prized for their permanence, but a Manifested item is not really in Shadesmar, and disruption of its Physical Body can affect or negate the Manfested item.

Hope that helps

It does, thank you so much!

[Through the Living Shadow he/him]

27 minutes ago, hwiles said:

First, your username is totally awesome, i absolutely love the reference and stylizing.

Second...under normal circumstances: 100% outright no.

Third: I do believe it is possible to cheat that system under extremely exotic conditions though. By my current understanding, it would always require the informed consent, cooperation, coordination, and engagement of another person (or, more likely, a whole bunch of people) in the physical realm (or the spiritual realm if you're actually crazy and ambitious enough to try to manifest something into a greater dimension of freedom instead of a lower one!) To get the operation to fully come together successfully. I'm still giving it 50/50 odds that some process like this is how Kelsier got his body back in the first place when that was always supposed to be impossible (at least if you believe what Shards and their acolytes tell you...)

RoW ending spoilers:

Spoiler

So at the end Dalinar found some dead spren in their cognitive form in the physical realm; essentially Ishtar had brought their bodies from the cognitive realm into the physical realm somehow.

This might be able to be done with manifested objects, or, on the other hand, one of the actual beads might be able to be brought into the physical realm.